The Price / Volume Relationship

[cnms2 10]

See attached Jack Hershey's chart for today. Lately he's using a fully mechanical approach of staying on the right side of the market.

[wilddog 10]

See attached Jack Hershey's chart for today. Lately he's using a fully mechanical approach of staying on the right side of the market.

 

Thanks for that. I finally get it. The penny has dropped. :doh:

 

It was the "walk forward" in the volume pane that did for me.

[cnms2 10]

jack hershey

 

Registered: Feb 2003

Posts: 7249

 

03-21-13 02:19 PM

 

 

 

As may be seen.

 

we went short on a BM REV and have continued in this trend through the Assigned P1 to a T1, thence to bar 78 where the rule is "advance one peak" to P2.

 

Bar 78 is usally high volume and high volatility.

 

In this case a FBP followed and then the lat3 happened.

 

At lat3 and beyond the Close is used to measure laterals. This makes bar 81 a lat4.

 

We deduce, then that the market opens tomorrow on bar 1 with short sentiment.

 

Three values of volume are inforce. No kills are inforce except that no more T1's are possible after a P2.

 

When you wake up, your mind may be asking you curious questions if you followed along today.

[clmacdougall 11]

jack hershey

 

Registered: Feb 2003

Posts: 7249

 

03-21-13 02:19 PM

 

 

 

As may be seen.

 

we went short on a BM REV and have continued in this trend through the Assigned P1 to a T1, thence to bar 78 where the rule is "advance one peak" to P2.

 

Bar 78 is usally high volume and high volatility.

 

In this case a FBP followed and then the lat3 happened.

 

At lat3 and beyond the Close is used to measure laterals. This makes bar 81 a lat4.

 

We deduce, then that the market opens tomorrow on bar 1 with short sentiment.

 

Three values of volume are inforce. No kills are inforce except that no more T1's are possible after a P2.

 

When you wake up, your mind may be asking you curious questions if you followed along today.

 

I don't understand the complexity of what it is you're doing, but I appreciate your devotion to it and your willingness to share the results. This is the first bit of trading results I think I've seen on this thread for this methodology( although I might have missed some earlier ). Thanks!

[wilddog 10]

opens tomorrow on bar 1 with short sentiment

 

 

OOOPS!!!!

[Heisenberg 10]

jack hershey

 

Registered: Feb 2003

Posts: 7249

 

03-21-13 02:19 PM

 

 

 

As may be seen.

 

we went short on a BM REV and have continued in this trend through the Assigned P1 to a T1, thence to bar 78 where the rule is "advance one peak" to P2.

 

Bar 78 is usally high volume and high volatility.

 

In this case a FBP followed and then the lat3 happened.

 

At lat3 and beyond the Close is used to measure laterals. This makes bar 81 a lat4.

 

We deduce, then that the market opens tomorrow on bar 1 with short sentiment.

 

Three values of volume are inforce. No kills are inforce except that no more T1's are possible after a P2.

 

When you wake up, your mind may be asking you curious questions if you followed along today.

 

How is this useful if Jack doesn't even draw channels?

[jbarnby 10]

How is this useful if Jack doesn't even draw channels?

 

IMHO, this has nothing to do with the three fractals as introduced by Spyder....nothing! If my chart looked anything like this I would have walked away long ago. But then again, from what I've heard, Jack never really got all the intricacies that Spyder introduced. And from what I've seen of his charts, that's apparently true. But I'll say one thing...it's entertaining to look at!

[cnms2 10]

jack hershey

 

 

Registered: Feb 2003

Posts: 7252

03-22-13 01:23 PM

Monday open is long.

 

P1 on bar 79 and T1 on bar 81.

[cnms2 10]

opens tomorrow on bar 1 with short sentiment

 

 

OOOPS!!!!

The short sentiment ended on bar 4.

[cnms2 10]

IMHO, this has nothing to do with the three fractals as introduced by Spyder....nothing! If my chart looked anything like this I would have walked away long ago. But then again, from what I've heard, Jack never really got all the intricacies that Spyder introduced. And from what I've seen of his charts, that's apparently true. But I'll say one thing...it's entertaining to look at!

I'm pretty sure that Jack introduced the three fractals, and that what we're seeing posted today by Jack includes collaborations with Spydertrader. Everything posted by both Jack and Spydertrader over the years is based on a few basic principles discovered many years ago by Jack Hershey (e.g. the PV relation, the pattern, the fractals).

[cnms2 10]

How is this useful if Jack doesn't even draw channels?

The "channels" are annotations primarily made in the price pane. Jack's latest posts come from the position that the volume is the independent market variable, and the price (a volume dependent market variable) is used to gate / filter the volume information. Hence by monitoring the volume, as allowed by price, you can know at every moment the market sentiment, and stay on the right side of the market. This approach is easier to automate, but leaves more potential profit on the table.

[jbarnby 10]

I'm pretty sure that Jack introduced the three fractals, and that what we're seeing posted today by Jack includes collaborations with Spydertrader. Everything posted by both Jack and Spydertrader over the years is based on a few basic principles discovered many years ago by Jack Hershey (e.g. the PV relation, the pattern, the fractals).

 

Well, not according to Todd (Spyder). But no doubt JH unearthed many of the basic principles years ago....totally agree on that one.

[Mr_black 10]

I have a question....If Jack Hershey knew all this Price/Volume stuff many years ago Why he didn't start at the beginning drawing charts like this ?

[wilddog 10]

I have a question....If Jack Hershey knew all this Price/Volume stuff many years ago Why he didn't start at the beginning drawing charts like this ?

 

This is new stuff that he has come up with. In his document "Channels For Building Wealth" there is nothing like this.

 

If you look through the ET thread, it looks like it dates back a year or so for this type of method.

Edited March 23, 2013 by wilddog

[wilddog 10]

The short sentiment ended on bar 4.

 

Jack always calls the side of the market on the open. He has always done so.

 

After losing 3 points from the open I would also change my sentiment.

 

"Monday open is long" means buy on the open. Jack is binary not "well sentiment is long, so lets see"

 

He has a 50% chance of being right

 

Just my 2c worth

 

 

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3765655#post3765655

Edited March 23, 2013 by wilddog

[Mr_black 10]

My This method become so overcomplicated....... that is not the right way is my believe.

Trading for profits must follow the way of least resistance, here this is not the case. I was struggling like everybody before to understand the P/V ,now I found different language, different annotations....Where is the Ftt , Fbo the Gaussian ???

[cnms2 10]

Jack always calls the side of the market on the open. He has always done so.

 

After losing 3 points from the open I would also change my sentiment.

 

"Monday open is long" means buy on the open. Jack is binary not "well sentiment is long, so lets see"

 

He has a 50% chance of being right

 

Just my 2c worth

 

 

Forums

 

 

 

I'm not sure what's your point. Jack's charts show that:

• on his trading fractal, on 3-21 early in bar 75 he reversed short, to be on the right side of the market, sentiment short
  
• on 3-22 early in bar 1 he entered short, in accordance with the above, no new assessment at this point
  
• on 3-22 early in bar 5 he reversed long, to stay on the right side of the market, sentiment now being long
  

The 54.2 looks like a typo for 44.2. The bar 5 on the chart is bar 6 in the log for the reversal long at 45. Jack's posts always had such inconsistencies, but they don't seem significant to me when I'm looking to the judgement behind the words. As an example consider Jokari vs. Johari, which he said he did on purpose. In this case bar 4 is an ftt, followed by a decreasing volume up black stitch. The "carved" reversal should've been early bar 5, then, later in bar 6 the "2nd chance" occurred.

 

As a general note, I'm not defending Jack or Spydertrader, or trying to put one above the other, each one has his merits: we wouldn't have these discussions without either of them. I just post my opinions on a matter or another. I'm always open to learn something, be it something new, or correcting or improving my understanding.

[frenchfry 10]

...

 

followed by a decreasing volume up black stitch. ...

 

Degapped it's an OB

[cnms2 10]

Degapped it's an OB

So you know how to trade it if you trade on a faster fractal.

 

By the way, ET deleted most of Jack's recent posts.

[frenchfry 10]

So you know how to trade it if you trade on a faster fractal.

 

By the way, ET deleted most of Jack's recent posts.

 

Yes, I saw that. Instead to delete, they should move the content to chit chat. I hope some people archive what he posts. Just because I or others don't understand (at any given moment in time) what he writes, doesn't mean that what he posts is useless. Sometimes one is lucky and finds something that is (could be) interesting.

[cnms2 10]

Yes, I saw that. Instead to delete, they should move the content to chit chat. I hope some people archive what he posts. Just because I or others don't understand (at any given moment in time) what he writes, doesn't mean that what he posts is useless. Sometimes one is lucky and finds something that is (could be) interesting.

Jack's Friday chart and logs.

[cnms2 10]

My This method become so overcomplicated....... that is not the right way is my believe.

Trading for profits must follow the way of least resistance, here this is not the case. I was struggling like everybody before to understand the P/V ,now I found different language, different annotations....Where is the Ftt , Fbo the Gaussian ???

I think that Jack enjoys finding new ways of looking at the market, but as the market doesn't really change its basics, all the new approaches posted by Jack are just new ways of emphasizing one aspect or another, new observations, new ways of filtering and organizing the information, but they rely on the same basics.

 

If we make a step back and look at the new way Jack posts about the market, he is actually just moving the emphasis toward the volume information, basically giving a bunch of new names to the peaks and troughs of the pattern, and dropping a fractal on the pt3 to ftt leg. Those names are another way of depicting the gaussians.

 

PS: How many people in their 80s can still have such active minds?

[Mr_black 10]

Yeah , you are right !!! Everybody go in his own way , for me is to know what is working and keep it as simple as possible !!! :missy:

[wilddog 10]

Jack has pulled the plug on ET after moderator "Magna" deleted all his posts. Sad day for ET

[Mr_black 10]

Jack has pulled the plug on ET after moderator "Magna" deleted all his posts. Sad day for ET

Jack is the man....I did the same long time ago.