The Price / Volume Relationship

[patrader 10]

Internal formations with increasing volume on second bar annotated.Ftp's and fbp's are annotated accordingly no matter what the second bar color.Sym's and eh's the annotation varies depending on color of second bar.hth

[patrader 10]

VE – Volatility Expansion(see attached) – ‘pushing out’ of the Left Trend Line refinement starts with the "zone" in this case the thicker trendline container's "zone"(see attached).Market needs a close on or beyond the ltl on the v.e. bar at bar close to be in the "zone"(see attached).hth

Edited January 2, 2013 by patrader

[Corey 10]

my VE zone...............

[Heisenberg 10]

Would it be possible that, in the attached chart from jbarnby, the thin line I marked with "A" is the fanned version of the thin line marked with "B"?

 

Thanks, and a Happy New Year to everyone!

Heisenberg

[patrader 10]

Examples of VE in the Zone,VE NOT in the Zone and current bar VE in the ZONE after previous bar VE NOT in the ZONE.hth

[wilddog 10]

Would it be possible that, in the attached chart from jbarnby, the thin line I marked with "A" is the fanned version of the thin line marked with "B"?

 

Thanks, and a Happy New Year to everyone!

Heisenberg

 

I suggest you look at some of spyders charts. It looks like a different fractal

Edited January 3, 2013 by wilddog

[jbarnby 10]

I suggest you look at some of spyders charts. It looks like a different fractal

 

Actually, Spyder never posted a fully annotated chart with only three fractals. Older charts from previous threads were annotated in a different fashion, and often contained much more than three fractals. Perhaps that's why he frequently encouraged folks to ONLY study this thread.

[jbarnby 10]

Is the trend (fractal) complete yet, or is there more to come? How would you know? Some of the best advice Spyder personally gave to me was to spend more time studying the volume pane of my chart. The trendlines tell us where our points reside, but the volume tells us what we've built.

[Heisenberg 10]

Is the trend (fractal) complete yet, or is there more to come? How would you know? Some of the best advice Spyder personally gave to me was to spend more time studying the volume pane of my chart. The trendlines tell us where our points reside, but the volume tells us what we've built.

 

I'd say that the trend is not complete yet because we have a higher volume peak(volume increasing). First post of this thread: if Volume is increasing, then the Price Trend is continuing.

 

Heisenberg

[jbarnby 10]

I'd say that the trend is not complete yet because we have a higher volume peak(volume increasing). First post of this thread: if Volume is increasing, then the Price Trend is continuing.

 

Heisenberg

 

Well hopefully you noted that the peak is around 1600 - nothing unusual there. But there are other ways of knowing. Sequences!

[FilterTip 10]

Is the trend (fractal) complete yet, or is there more to come? How would you know? Some of the best advice Spyder personally gave to me was to spend more time studying the volume pane of my chart. The trendlines tell us where our points reside, but the volume tells us what we've built.

 

I have the benefit of todays price action.

However, when reading your post before today opened my thoughts were this:

 

1. Yes there is more to come.

2. Assuming your green trend lines are a Tape, then we require a further 2r2b (thin) due to the Tape Ve'ing at 15.55 ?

 

But that's from price rather than volume ?

 

Thx for helping out here on TL..

 

Kind regards

 

PS: did you mean to have a B2B on top of a B2B of the same gaussian thickness at the start of your posted chart from 15.30 ?

Edited January 3, 2013 by FilterTip

[Heisenberg 10]

Well hopefully you noted that the peak is around 1600 - nothing unusual there. But there are other ways of knowing. Sequences!

 

Sequences of peaks and troughs?

[Heisenberg 10]

Is the trend (fractal) complete yet, or is there more to come? How would you know? Some of the best advice Spyder personally gave to me was to spend more time studying the volume pane of my chart. The trendlines tell us where our points reside, but the volume tells us what we've built.

 

So if I read this correctly, this is what you do:

 

a. Draw the 3 containers

b. Draw the 3 corresponding gaussians

c. Now you can see from the volume pane what fractal you've built

 

Heisenberg

[jbarnby 10]

Sequences of peaks and troughs?

 

I mean r2r2b2r and b2b2r2b.

[jbarnby 10]

So if I read this correctly, this is what you do:

 

a. Draw the 3 containers

b. Draw the 3 corresponding gaussians

c. Now you can see from the volume pane what fractal you've built

 

Heisenberg

 

Well, honestly it's quite a bit more involved than that, but i suppose that's a good place to start. There are many other considerations as well, and one must understand the concept of nesting the fractals too.

[cnms2 10]

Is the trend (fractal) complete yet, or is there more to come? How would you know? Some of the best advice Spyder personally gave to me was to spend more time studying the volume pane of my chart. The trendlines tell us where our points reside, but the volume tells us what we've built.

A slightly different view (green and purple RTLs and gaussians, orange laterals).

[Heisenberg 10]

Well, honestly it's quite a bit more involved than that, but i suppose that's a good place to start. There are many other considerations as well, and one must understand the concept of nesting the fractals too.

 

Yes I'm aware that it's not that simple, but can you start from that concept?

I'm not sure I correctly understand what the concept of nesting fractals is. Is it enough to say that, for example, a channel contains 3 traverses, and each traverse contains 3 tapes?

 

Sidenote: from what I see in your charts, there aren't always 3 tapes? Sometimes a single tape seems enough.

 

Heisenberg

[jbarnby 10]

Yes I'm aware that it's not that simple, but can you start from that concept?

I'm not sure I correctly understand what the concept of nesting fractals is. Is it enough to say that, for example, a channel contains 3 traverses, and each traverse contains 3 tapes?

 

Sidenote: from what I see in your charts, there aren't always 3 tapes? Sometimes a single tape seems enough.

 

Heisenberg

 

There was good discussion in this thread in Oct 2010 about nesting. Additionally, pace can influence how a fractal is constructed, and what is observable vs what is not observable.

[cnms2 10]

Take a look at the attached Chart snip from today (08/04/2009) ...

 

What did the market form?

How do you know?

 

If you know neither answer ...

 

How many different ways can you annotate the chart snippet? Test to determine which of those ways represent the only correct method.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

This is a nice annotation drill to check your fractal jumping propensity

[Heisenberg 10]

This is a nice annotation drill to check your fractal jumping propensity

 

Is it an up traverse like this?

 

Heisenberg

[FilterTip 10]

This is a nice annotation drill to check your fractal jumping propensity

 

Take a look at the attached Chart snip from today (08/04/2009) ...

 

What did the market form?

How do you know?

 

If you know neither answer ...

 

How many different ways can you annotate the chart snippet? Test to determine which of those ways represent the only correct method.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

 

 

How, using this chart snippet would you, as you say, check your fractal jumping propensity ?

 

Spyder replied, at the time to Ezzy:

Originally Posted by Ezzy »

So it wasn't necessarily about the snippet (in a vacuum). It was the bigger picture, what came before it should have told us WMCN.

 

with:

 

That which developed before the snippet told you, in the most unambiguous way possible, what the snippet would be.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Thx

Edited January 9, 2013 by FilterTip

[FilterTip 10]

jbarnby

re your post# 3708:

 

Is the trend (fractal) complete yet, or is there more to come? How would you know? Some of the best advice Spyder personally gave to me was to spend more time studying the volume pane of my chart. The trendlines tell us where our points reside, but the volume tells us what we've built.

 

As previously posted, would this be correct ?

 

 

1. Yes there is more to come.

2. Assuming your green trend lines are a Tape, then we require a further 2r2b (thin) due to the Tape Ve'ing at 15.55 ?

 

But that's from price rather than volume ?

 

Thx for helping out here on TL..

 

Kind regards

 

 

Many thx

[cnms2 10]

How, using this chart snippet would you, as you say, check your fractal jumping propensity ?

 

Spyder replied, at the time to Ezzy:

 

 

with:

 

 

 

Thx

By testing if one can correctly identify the exact bar that ends the medium line down container in real time, without having the benefit of seeing what followed.

One can correctly annotate the snippet (the medium line down container), without knowing what happened before it started. I believe that in his reply Spydertrater was saying that one can anticipate that the snippet won't accelerate down and its dominance by analyzing the context, and he didn't say that the snippet cannot be annotated without the benefit of more information than what he originally posted.

[cnms2 10]

Is it an up traverse like this?

 

Heisenberg

No it is a down traverse. Follow the link to Spydertrader's post for the discussion of the drill.

[FilterTip 10]

Originally Posted by Heisenberg »

Is it an up traverse like this?

 

Heisenberg

 

No it is a down traverse. Follow the link to Spydertrader's post for the discussion of the drill.

 

Reading through the posts for that discussion:

 

ehorn thought it was a down Tape:

romanus thought it was a down Traverse:

cnms2 thought it was a down Channel:

 

Spyder infers (only by referring to what came before the posted chart)

that it was a down Tape. to the 15.35 bar, from which we get the last 2B up Tape

to complete an up Traverse.

 

I stand corrected if I've mis-understood those series of past posts.

 

Thx

 

PS: logic would suggest that one would need to have known how to correctly annotate the "thing" prior to the chart in question in order to have correctly annotated the chart in question etc..etc.. !

Edited January 9, 2013 by FilterTip