The Price / Volume Relationship

[patrader 10]

Flat bottom pennant(fbp) combo's that never create a lateral formation and always create a lateral formation.

[patrader 10]

Even harmonic (eh) combo's that never create a lateral formation and always create a lateral formation

[patrader 10]

Symmetrical pennant(sym) combo's that never create a lateral formation and always create a lateral formation

[cnms2 10]

I marked three different areas on my chart today that threw me off real time. The first was in the 10:35-10:40 area. By 10:30 I thought the tape fractal had completed. 10:30, was what I believed at the time was the beginning of B2B. Looking back several bars afterwards it was easy to correct the mistake but real time, not picking the right PT3 on the Traverse or FTT on the Tape does not yield positive results.

 

Then the other area, which continues to be challenging is knowing when the VEs will end, along with the final FTT. Real Time, I believed bar 10:55 was the FTT. There were two VEs before it, volume had peaked several times, lower each time. By bar 11:00 volume began to decrease, SYM formed, and it appeared the tape fractal and traverse fractal were at a close. Was drawing in R2 at the time expecting a shift. Then, to my surprise 11:05, has increasing price and volume, heavy volume PRV. I see it getting close to the green bookmark, breaking upwards out of the SYM. At that point I thought I was wrong, and that another VE could possibly form. Does anyone know any clues that would have alerted me that 11:55 was not a FTT on that bar? By bar 11:05, where there any clues telling us that the move was at an end intra bar?

 

Also 13:05 to 13:25. Real time the build up of bars appear to create B2B on the FF tape level, which typically builds to the Tape once the prior channel has been broken. Here after what appears to be B2B, the 2R breaks back into the prior channel continuing the earlier trend. How does one handle this real time? Do you have to wait till 13:25 to reach with a reverse, or is there an earlier indicator of this failed break out?

 

I annotated a little differently that area (on your chart).

[wilddog 10]

I annotated a little differently that area (on your chart).

 

 

Please post chart. Thanks

[cnms2 10]

Please post chart. Thanks

I don't use the standard annotations circulated in this thread, so posting my charts as they are would raise too many questions, maybe even confuse some readers.

 

I post only when I have something that I believe might be of use to another poster, something that doesn't cause an argument.

 

If you don't want me to comment on one of your posts, just add a note about this, or please ignore my posts.

[wilddog 10]

I don't use the standard annotations circulated in this thread, so posting my charts as they are would raise too many questions, maybe even confuse some readers.

 

I post only when I have something that I believe might be of use to another poster, something that doesn't cause an argument.

 

If you don't want me to comment on one of your posts, just add a note about this, or please ignore my posts.

 

The more you post the better. I am sure I speak for many.

[Frontrunner 10]

Also 13:05 to 13:25. Real time the build up of bars appear to create B2B on the FF tape level, which typically builds to the Tape once the prior channel has been broken. Here after what appears to be B2B, the 2R breaks back into the prior channel continuing the earlier trend. How does one handle this real time? Do you have to wait till 13:25 to reach with a reverse, or is there an earlier indicator of this failed break out?

 

Hi Monkman, because the market FBO of the down RTL and closed below it, we fan the RTL. We clone a new LTL to the new actual pt2 (not geometrical pt2). When you fan a RTL you cut the previous RTL/LTL. Had you done this, you would have noticed the market again attempted to BO of the new fanned RTL with the FTP on decreasing volume. As Jack says, the second bar of the formation ( this case is a case e formation) is NOT "processed". The next bar (case j...stitch down) attempted again to BO of the RTL but reversed (creating a huge case j trapping a lot of bulls). So annotation wise, the market kept failing to BO of the RTL, so you keep fanning the RTL. hth

Edited November 30, 2012 by Frontrunner

[Monkman 10]

Per Jack Hershey:

 

All inside formations have the same rules. The first bar is always processed. the second or sunsequence bar(s) is NOT processed if smaller in volume than the first. If NOT, then it is processed.

 

For out side bars, they count as two bars in a trends sequence. THe first value is done as usual. The second value is simple: it is the NEXT value in the trend sequence.

 

How does this apply to the situation highlighted in blue, and violet?

 

In the blue region, the first bar breaks out of the previous channel. Here we have what appears to be a B2B shift on the Tape fractal. The second bar forms a SYM. Then Long Stich, with several flaws following. Now, does the above quote only refer to two bar FF formations or does it also refer to laterals as well? As you can see I labeled the volume one way on the Tape level, then found that a complete cycle had formed within this lateral. Each of these bars were less than the first, so had they not been process as part of a cycle in the gaussian formation then it appears I would have missed an entire Tape. Then towards the end of the high lighted blue region, we see a break out from the lateral, and the last price leg of the Tape in the sky blue channel. Its volume bar is also less than the first. Had this not been processed it seems that it would have caused several issues.

 

With the Violet region a similar situation happen. B2B shift on the Tape fractal, SYM beginning the shift. By the third bar, at lateral forms, marked in light blue. Each bar after the SYM, is lower than the first. After the red ftt bar, had we not processed any of the volume bars lower than the start of the SYM, it appears we would have missed the B2B.

 

Am I missing something here? Could we expand on Jack's instructions with further detail, and possible examples?

 

[wilddog 10]

Monkman I suggest you study patrader two bar case document. I think he is one of the original "A-team". Good luck

[patrader 10]

Attached are two documents with 2 bar internal formations but add either decreasing or increasing volume on the second bar.Here is the drill.Using Jack's "process" or "not process" rule for internal formations annotate the attached internals.One of the increasing volume internals should prove interesting to annotate on each document.

[patrader 10]

Next we'll combine a pair of 2 bar internal formations (requiring three bars) with different combinations of volume.Here is the drill..Depending on the "processing" or "not processing" of the second bar of each 2 bar internal formation annotate the three bars.We'll start with a ftp and add a second 2 bar internal formation.

[patrader 10]

Fbp and add a second 2 bar internal formation(requiring three bars) with different volume combinations.Same drill.Annotate the three bars using jack's processing or not processing.

Edited December 2, 2012 by patrader

[patrader 10]

Sym pennant and add a second 2 bar internal formation (requiring three bars) with different volume combinations.Same drill.Annotate the three bars using jack's processing or not processing.

Edited December 2, 2012 by patrader

[patrader 10]

Eh and add a second 2 bar internal formation (requiring three bars) with different volume combinations.Same drill.Annotate the three bars using jack's processing or not processing

Edited December 2, 2012 by patrader

[wilddog 10]

Please could experienced users post their daily charts so noobies can learn.

 

Thanks

[cnms2 10]

I recommend following Jack's posts, and ask him precise questions.

 

He posted this chart today:

 

 

 

 

[wilddog 10]

I recommend following Jack's posts, and ask him precise questions.

 

He posted this chart today:

 

 

 

 

 

Jack is way beyond my intellect. I find him very difficult to understand. Spyders charts are more legible and I can follow the fractals.

 

As far as I am aware Jack trades two bar tapes.

[cnms2 10]

Jack is way beyond my intellect. I find him very difficult to understand. Spyders charts are more legible and I can follow the fractals.

 

As far as I am aware Jack trades two bar tapes.

I highlighted the FTT trades on the blowup of the RTH portion of the chart.

[Monkman 10]

I recommend following Jack's posts, and ask him precise questions.

 

He posted this chart today:

 

 

 

 

 

Getting an error with that link. Could you re post a direct link, I believe the one that was listed is a search link.

[cnms2 10]

Getting an error with that link. Could you re post a direct link, I believe the one that was listed is a search link.

If you get a "Jack Hershey" search results page, it's what I intended to point to. If you don't, just go to the ET's home page, click the "search" button, then search for "Jack Hershey" 's posts.

[Corey 10]

If you get a "Jack Hershey" search results page, it's what I intended to point to. If you don't, just go to the ET's home page, click the "search" button, then search for "Jack Hershey" 's posts.

since it is a search result it will expire fast.

[Heisenberg 10]

A small word of warning if you try this to get this to work.

 

If you are going to learn this, and I don't say you shouldn't: It's going to be a bumpy ride. Don't be blinded by the possible rewards. I don't say it cannot be done. Actually I'm convinced it can be done. I've been trying to get it for 5 years, with no results whatsoever. And be sure I am not the only alone that went that road. The ones that did get it I can count on one hand.

 

This being said: I wish everyone that undertakes this journey to have tremendous success!

[Monkman 10]

Here is my take on the day.

 

A re occurring question I keep asking myself is how to identify whether a RTL break should be fanned out or annotated for the formation of R2R. For example, 11:40, where we have the first break of the purple Tape on increasing volume from 11:30 to 11:40. During that bar, how do you know in the future that it will be fanned out rather than annotated for R2R? Are there any signals that suggest this failed break out beforehand? Do you have to wait for confirmation by next bar?

 

I have pointed out another example of what appears to be similar occurrences in other charts. In the 14:35-15:00, I have this labeled as decreasing black. Following PAtraders drills and Cmns2's general processing example, I have began to pay closer attention to the 2 and 3 bar combinations on how I annotate them.

 

Bar 1, 14:35, process

Bar 2, 14:40, not processed

Bar 3, 14:45, process (increasing volume, can't be b2b since Tape fractal is still on the R2R 2B phase)

Bar 4, 14:50, process (increasing volume, same as previous bar, breaks green bookmark, violates what I believe to be the brown PT3 of the Traverse, and goes back into prior channel, WTF?)(This is also in a R2R 2B trend which adds further confusion because a PT3 of a channel is not suppose to be higher than the PT1, P1 - 13:40, P2 - 14:50 ?)

Bar 5, 14:55, not processed

Bar 6, 15:00, processed (increasing volume, bar closes above green bookmark, tape fractal guassians show that we are operating in a R2R 2B trend, but price shows that its going back into the previous channel continuing the B2B 2R 2B trend, which one is right did I make a previous annotation mistake?)

Bar 7-8, not processed (price appears to be going back into brown Traverse channel)

Bar 9, processed (increasing red, possible R2R 2B (2R) part of brown traverses's tape.

 

So say you were trading this, and 13:40 was the PT3 of the traverse. Jack says that you should exit when price gets close to the green bookmark. Had you do that here, and in some of the other examples that were posted, you would have made a wash. Then you would have completely missed out of what seems to be the 2R move of the tape and traverse for tomorrow unless you entered back in at what may or may not be as good of a price point. For those of you that are trading this how would you have approach this situation? What about the annotations?

[patrader 10]

Sym stitch up and down lateral formations with volume combinations.How would you annotate each three bar combination with its matching volume?