The Price / Volume Relationship

[xioxxio 10]

Hi Tams, I am not sure if you have this for the HSI, I quickly extracted it from Bloomberg. It is 1min data, I have used the past 2234 data points.

[Tams 20]

Hi Tams, I am not sure if you have this for the HSI, I quickly extracted it from Bloomberg. It is 1min data, I have used the past 2234 data points.

 

nice.

 

thanks for sharing.

[xioxxio 10]

No problem, I have access to all markets data. If there are any markets you would like let me know and the time frame you are looking at.

[Corey 10]

I realize this method works on any time frame as long as there is liquid volume. I would like to hear from people using it on a different time frame to 5min; the markets you are trading and the reason for choosing that time interval.

 

Thanks

15m and 60m for 'forest' view esp when 5m vol is too low to tell.

[xioxxio 10]

15 Minute and 60 Minute attached.

[Mr_black 10]

Volume Leads Price:)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK-dEgi1xVM&list=FLpt8L7_1o6eS6dPrFsA8duQ&index=1]OFA Assisted Scalping Part 1.mp4 - YouTube[/ame]

[xioxxio 10]

I have always wondered, if these systems are no brainers and that successful why would you bother selling it, surely you are making more than enough money using them.

[Corey 10]

I have always wondered, if these systems are no brainers and that successful why would you bother selling it, surely you are making more than enough money using them.

if they accept volume leads price dictum I will investigate it.

[Corey 10]

No problem, I have access to all markets data. If there are any markets you would like let me know and the time frame you are looking at.

cl 1m and 5m, thanks.

[illcrx 10]

Price or Volume its like Chicken or the Egg.

 

You cant have significant price increase without volume behind it and you cant get to the significant volume until price gets to a certain level.

 

I believe that they are intimately correlated but volume is much more important than price, though there are times where you can make good gains on low volume up-trends, like the latter part of this last bull run. But we all know how that ended.........

 

If you were to ask the very successful traders that use Volume in their equation they all look for high volume to support whatever style they use. Most also look for volume dry up to quantify a base.

 

In MY opinion Volume is paramount over price, whether it leads; is another debate. If a breakout occurs, and use whatever time-frame or trendline you want to quantify breakout, and its on low volume it does not have the support behind it that is needed for it to continue and is likely to be a shakeout move. Besides there are tons of stocks to choose from and if the one that Im looking at is not acting right I will move on to a stock that IS breaking out on volume.

 

The reason that the Chicken and the Egg is such a difficult question is because its hard to answer, just eat your eggs.

 

On a side note I think the Egg came first. Genetic abnormalities within an Egg likely created the first chicken, it only takes one gene to make a new species. I doubt there was a chicken like species that in the middle of its life became a chicken then laid an egg.

[xioxxio 10]

cl 1m and 5m, thanks.

 

Which session, PIT, electronic?

 

Between which trading hours?

[Corey 10]

Which session, PIT, electronic?

 

Between which trading hours?

electronic, 8am-4pm EST.

[xioxxio 10]

Find below CL Data. 1Min and 5 Min

[ivob 10]

This "system" or more a way of seeing the market is the basis of my trading.

 

But I honestly don't care very much about volume. I find it rather deceptive.

 

Also I don't care much about volatility expansion, high volatility stall, hitch, dip etc etc...Intra bar gaussian shift...... (almost seems like another language...) Trading shouldn't be that hard is my opinion. You see something in the big picture, zoom in, act on it, monitor closely, zoom out (very important!)....that's all.

 

Keep in mind price goes up if it cannot go down anymore and vice versa. So look for failures... failure to breakout (bar, channel), failure to traverse. All depending on the context as the context might make you decide to ignore a signal (FTT for instance).

 

I do care about change, FTT, BO, FBO, point 3. triangles, congestion and above all I care about holding as long as price remains in the channel using the right trendline as a last resort.

 

regards,

Ivo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Price or Volume its like Chicken or the Egg.

 

You cant have significant price increase without volume behind it and you cant get to the significant volume until price gets to a certain level.

 

I believe that they are intimately correlated but volume is much more important than price, though there are times where you can make good gains on low volume up-trends, like the latter part of this last bull run. But we all know how that ended.........

 

If you were to ask the very successful traders that use Volume in their equation they all look for high volume to support whatever style they use. Most also look for volume dry up to quantify a base.

 

In MY opinion Volume is paramount over price, whether it leads; is another debate. If a breakout occurs, and use whatever time-frame or trendline you want to quantify breakout, and its on low volume it does not have the support behind it that is needed for it to continue and is likely to be a shakeout move. Besides there are tons of stocks to choose from and if the one that Im looking at is not acting right I will move on to a stock that IS breaking out on volume.

 

The reason that the Chicken and the Egg is such a difficult question is because its hard to answer, just eat your eggs.

 

On a side note I think the Egg came first. Genetic abnormalities within an Egg likely created the first chicken, it only takes one gene to make a new species. I doubt there was a chicken like species that in the middle of its life became a chicken then laid an egg.

[gamblerKi 10]

Hi ,

 

In ET old posts, Spyder said the end effects of FTT are: 1. BO 2. FBO 3. FTT

 

According to guuci(TL post #2732 & #2734), there aren't any FBO.

 

In ET old posts, Jack said FBO existed and described in details what happen during FBO.

 

My question is: A SCT trader find FBO after FTT because:

a. he/she is not skillful or 'jumps fractal'?

b. FBO really exists in the market?

 

 

TIA.

[joshdance 10]

You cant have significant price increase without volume behind it and you cant get to the significant volume until price gets to a certain level.

 

Yes you can, and it happens every day. Volume indicates participation. Price can move quite a lot on decreasing volume, and it can churn in one place on heavy volume. Volume equals trading activity.

[Tams 20]

Hi ,

 

In ET old posts, Spyder said the end effects of FTT are: 1. BO 2. FBO 3. FTT

 

According to guuci(TL post #2732 & #2734), there aren't any FBO.

 

In ET old posts, Jack said FBO existed and described in details what happen during FBO.

 

My question is: A SCT trader find FBO after FTT because:

a. he/she is not skillful or 'jumps fractal'?

b. FBO really exists in the market?

 

 

TIA.

 

one tip:

you can right click on the post #,

copy the link, and past it in your post,

so that people can find it easily.

 

 

 

ps. if you are talking about a chart feature,

you should always copy the chart... then draw arrows and write notes on the chart to illustrate your point.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Tams

[SK0 10]

Yes you can, and it happens every day. Volume indicates participation. Price can move quite a lot on decreasing volume, and it can churn in one place on heavy volume. Volume equals trading activity.

 

In time of good pace, it means change is coming up very soon. In time of weak pace, it means revert to "value" and very soon too. In both situations, price change is unsustainable.

 

... and it can churn in one place on heavy volume. Volume equals trading activity.

 

Again, time to think of change.

[Tams 20]

In time of good pace, it means change is coming up very soon. In time of weak pace, it means revert to "value" and very soon too. In both situations, price change is unsustainable.

 

Again, time to think of change.

 

Change = profit potential

[ivob 10]

Change coming up soon is never sure IMO. Only if what must come next materializes. What must come next after an FTT is price going in the new direction...taking out the FTT bar. Next bar the same.... Doesn't have to go like crazy and might be little choppy but EOB should tell.

 

If it doesn't do that then we have 2 options...a point 2 was formed (a little later) and price retraces (or moves sideways) to form a point 3 inside the old channel (and then price just shoots away) or the FTT is invalidaded. (taken out). Of course we would need some space in the channel between point 1 and 2..so I really expect the next few bars after the FTT to go in your direction (assuming we took the trade). Sideways movement right after the FTT is not good...

 

The FTT bar itself is very interesting. Usually it seems like a not very meaningful bar..moving slowly. Because of the lack of market participation. (hence the low volume) price has to move to a new area fo find buyers and sellers who agree and a new channel is born. Anyway, If the FTT bar would look meaningful traders would probably be aware of the change and that's not what the market wants because it always moves to f**k as many people as possible except for the JHM traders who were trained to spot FTT's ;-)

 

Ayway..it's good to know about the why.

I don't watch volume BTW, just price, bar length, the way bars move.

 

In time of good pace, it means change is coming up very soon. In time of weak pace, it means revert to "value" and very soon too. In both situations, price change is unsustainable.

 

 

 

Again, time to think of change.

[blott 10]

This "system" or more a way of seeing the market is the basis of my trading.

 

But I honestly don't care very much about volume. I find it rather deceptive.

 

Also I don't care much about volatility expansion, high volatility stall, hitch, dip etc etc...Intra bar gaussian shift...... (almost seems like another language...) Trading shouldn't be that hard is my opinion. You see something in the big picture, zoom in, act on it, monitor closely, zoom out (very important!)....that's all.

 

Keep in mind price goes up if it cannot go down anymore and vice versa. So look for failures... failure to breakout (bar, channel), failure to traverse. All depending on the context as the context might make you decide to ignore a signal (FTT for instance).

 

I do care about change, FTT, BO, FBO, point 3. triangles, congestion and above all I care about holding as long as price remains in the channel using the right trendline as a last resort.

 

regards,

Ivo

 

Hi,

Interesting theory about chicken & egg relating to price & volume. Without wishing to gt religious, I would humbly suggest that in The Markets, of any hue, (of which we are but sorry little minnows) there is one thing that comes before price and volume and that is The Smart Money. Their trading decides what the price will be and the volume is the physical manifestion of their activity, If they decide to pass on this move, then volume drops off and it's us lesser mortals you see playing. Chicken and egg conundrum solved!

 

I learned a hell of a lot from Tom Williams and Gavin Holmes at Tradeguider dot com, and still have a long way to go, but some of the fog is lifting. Have you ever wondered why price always seems to reverse shortly after you get into a trade? :doh: That's the trap that Smart Money know we will fall into every time...! Better learn how to read volume! Pattern and cycle trading are good too, but volume gives you that extra edge.

 

 

 

 

cheers,

 

 

Mike

[ivob 10]

This is interesting. I find myself sometimes entering at point 2, or somewhere between point 1 and 2 which is better. As long as the big picture doesn't change you can just stay in.

 

It's a dilemma, sometimes prices moves quickly after RTL break..sometimes we have point 2 right after RTL break....what to do? I guess if volatility is high it could move before we get point 2, like today in the last hour.

 

But it's personal. For me a little zigzag is okay.. I learned to be more relaxed about it. Things can take a couple of bars to work out. (little 1-2-3 movements on smaller fractals). guess it's just the market trying to shake out weak hands. I just wait for point 3 and add some to the position.

 

Remember, somewhere...there's a trendline that is in your favor so time is on your side because if nothing big happens that trendline simply will push price in your direction. You're on the right side of the market.

 

And if something unexpected happens that changes the big picture: act on it. It will be unexpected for many traders so might be a big move that quickly makes up for any small losses.

 

It doesn't matter when you enter. The market doesn't know that and is either in short or long modus and at each moment ask yourself the question what would change the big picture. I could open up my platform in the morning and put a trade on immediately. That having said, we all like to be in the green quickly so RTL...FTT is better.

 

regards,

Ivo

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi,

<SNIP>

. Have you ever wondered why price always seems to reverse shortly after you get into a trade?

</SNIP>

 

 

 

cheers,

 

 

Mike

[xioxxio 10]

Change = profit potential

 

and Continuation=profit potential

[Tams 20]

and Continuation=profit potential

 

Continuation IS profit

[xioxxio 10]

Continuation IS profit

 

 

Agreed if you are in the trade. However, if you don't have a position and you identify continuation vs change, continuation=profit potential.

 

Even if you are in a position you can still make money from continuation, an example would be when you trade a flaw.