The Price / Volume Relationship

[Corey 10]

Have a look at Spyder's Bar by Bar,

 

On bar 1, he speaks about increasing black volume and the price closes inside the previous bar, so a short is initiated. That black bar should be a red bar since the close is lower than the open, why is it black?

because it was higher than previous bar.

[xioxxio 10]

Question for experts, how do you read these two laterals today and make money trading them. They both lasted 45 min each. It was like watching paint dry Thanks

[SK0 10]

Question for experts, how do you read these two laterals today and make money trading them. They both lasted 45 min each. It was like watching paint dry Thanks

 

I am not an expert but I am curious. Is this a trick?

 

The period is like a Friday lunch hour or pre-news time with VDU volume and narrow volatility. It started as a lateral, then failed break out, and then shifted slightly downward forming another lateral.

 

If you like thrill, I guess you could read DOM to scalp near the top and bottom of first lateral. The second lateral is converging and shows centering with tiny pennants. It is better to sit and wait for break out with increasing volume and possibly with quick reverse, no matter whether trend will be up or down.

 

:smoking:

 

[edit:] include off-market trading hours

Edited August 12, 2011 by SK0
adding some words.

[xioxxio 10]

The chart is live right now of the SPI (S&P200), 80 minutes into trading, 5minute bars.The lateral started on bar 17

[Corey 10]

Question for experts, how do you read these two laterals today and make money trading them. They both lasted 45 min each. It was like watching paint dry Thanks

you know its a lat because both colors are in down slope. you can a) stay out wait for pace quicken, higher volume bar or b) range trading, find your range sell top buy bottom again and again.

[FJK 10]

Question for experts, how do you read these two laterals today and make money trading them. They both lasted 45 min each. It was like watching paint dry Thanks

 

The first is not a lateral. The 3rd bar is outside the boundaries of the first.

 

My advise regarding laterals:

 

- Look at 'the big picture' (the whole tape sequence)

- Annotate if it is a dominant or non-dominant lateral

- Notice/annotate FBO's/BO's

- Look at 100 sequences

 

Go back in the journals, laterals have been discussed many times.

[patrader 10]

Have a look at Spyder's Bar by Bar,

 

On bar 1, he speaks about increasing black volume and the price closes inside the previous bar, so a short is initiated. That black bar should be a red bar since the close is lower than the open, why is it black?

 

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2059121

[xioxxio 10]

Go back in the journals, laterals have been discussed many times.

 

I think we both need to go back and check the journals, below is Spyders wording

 

"The lateral formation continues until terminated with two closes outside the Lateral boundaries (created from the High / Low of Bar 1) - except where the 'two closes' form a 'flaw.' In such a case, we require a 'third' close outside the lateral boundary in order to have reached 'termination' of the previous lateral."

[vienna 10]

In order to give some help to beginners, I thought I share "the ultimate Volume Drill". I did this drill several months ago, when I was getting seriously into this method, and found it to be an absolute eye opener.

I had seen Spyder's admonition that "the answer might reside in the volume pane" so many times that I started wondering what I had been missing.

 

The idea of the drill is to draw every price bar (all 81 or them) by looking at the volume bars only, in realtime.

I practiced this drill for 2 weeks, all day long. At the beginning it was very frustrating, but towards the end I was amazed how much was revealed by the volume bars alone: I even started to correctly guess where a bar closed now and then, I could pick out doji bars etc.

I highly recommend this to anyone who has not done it... it instilled a habit to be aware of what volume is doing all of the time. Spyders's volume drills on ET- which had previously mystified me- became pretty clear.

 

One could do this drill by pasting a sheet of paper over the price portion on the monitor, but I think I found a better way.

The first thing you need is a screen-grab software. I am used to "Hypersnap": I find it easy and intuitive, but this is a personal preference, there are several inexpensive programs on the market.

My next post will contain the instructions in detail.

 

Attached please find some examples/results of this drill.The charts are pasted together EOD, the middle pane shows the actual price bars (invisible to me during the day), the upper pane the bars "guessed" during the day.

 

HTH, Vienna

04-13a.pdf

04-14a.pdf

[vienna 10]

Attached please find the instructions...

 

Once you get the hang of it, it's actually fun...don't cheat...

 

Vienna

THE VOL DRILL.pdf

[vienna 10]

Logging...in this case it was a remark by Mr. Black in one of the Journals, where someone had asked him a question and he said he found logging "indispensable". I thought "if it's good enough for Mr. B, it's good enough for me"...

 

I experimented with Logs, but was not satisfied until I had changed the format from vertical to horizontal, so the log actually goes left-to-right, like the chart...you can actually see the gaussians, which helps with clarity... perhaps useful for someone, modify as desired. If it already exists, I apologize...did not see any in this format.

You need 4 sheets per day, and it prints on legal. I use red and black pens for clarity.

 

Attached an example of a filled-in log and the excel file.

 

Cheerio,

 

Vienna

2011_04_11_4 logs.pdf

V LOG.xls

[vienna 10]

One more resource (which I found invaluable) is having a mentor... I will not mention his name because I do not know if he likes to be approached etc., but I found to have someone who can help clarify things directly on skype, suggest drills etc. to be a huge help, and I am very grateful that someone gave me his time. Learning this by asking questions on a forum can be a bit like trying to learn Chinese by posting.

 

Of course, the actual work has to be done by the student, but it was my mentor e.g who suggested I do the volume drill...

 

Good trading,

 

Vienna

[vienna 10]

JH clean page, please could you post link. Thanks

 

My tape cycles

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/6320-price-volume-relationship-377.html

(Post #3016)

are actually referring to JH Clean Page 1 (not 4), attached.. found it.

 

hth, Vienna

[Corey 10]

...

I practiced this drill for 2 weeks, all day long. At the beginning it was very frustrating, but towards the end I was amazed how much was revealed by the volume bars alone: I even started to correctly guess where a bar closed now and then, I could pick out doji bars etc.

I highly recommend this to anyone who has not done it... it instilled a habit to be aware of what volume is doing all of the time. Spyders's volume drills on ET- which had previously mystified me- became pretty clear.

...

 

HTH, Vienna

awesome!................

[xioxxio 10]

Learning this by asking questions on a forum can be a bit like trying to learn Chinese by posting.

 

Well said, very frustrating

[xioxxio 10]

Quick questions;

 

What do the following stand for;

 

Vol (IBV,DBV)

Vol (I-V) and what are the levels eg 1.2 1.5

Mode (C,X)

 

Thanks

[Corey 10]

Quick questions;

 

What do the following stand for;

 

Vol (IBV,DBV)

Vol (I-V) and what are the levels eg 1.2 1.5

Mode (C,X)

 

Thanks

where do you see that? unless they come from a 'good' source you do best to just ignore it.

my best guess,ibv= increasing black volume, dbv=decreasing b v, i-v=increasing vol, c=continue,x=reverse maybe.

[vienna 10]

Quick questions;

 

What do the following stand for;

 

Vol (IBV,DBV)

Vol (I-V) and what are the levels eg 1.2 1.5

Mode (C,X)

 

Thanks

 

Vol (IBV,DBV) = Volume, IBV= Increasing Black Volume etc

Vol (I-V) and what are the levels eg 1.2 1.5= Pace levels (horizontal lines on Vol pane), 1.2= 1200 contracts

Mode (C,X) : C= continue, x= change

 

This is just the way I log things...as I said, please modify as desired.

[vienna 10]

Well said, very frustrating

 

The best advice at the beginning I received was from Patrader...he suggested to read through the whole of the ET threads, first putting everybody but Spyder on ignore...that saves you months and helps eliminate confusion. Focus on the coarse tools only.

Yes, is a lot of work, I know...:-)

 

Also, start marking up charts, starting with the tapes.

 

hth,

 

Vienna

[gamblerKi 10]

Vol (I-V) and what are the levels eg 1.2 1.5= Pace levels (horizontal lines on Vol pane), 1.2= 1200 contracts

 

Hi Vienna,

 

Congratulations!

 

In the 2011_04_11_4 logs.pdf,

Bar 1 Vol-Level=2.6 (means 2600 contracts)

Bar 2 Vol-Level=2.82 (means 2820contracts)

Bar 3 Vol-Level=1.8 (means 1800contracts)

Bar 4 Vol-Level=1.8 (means 1800contracts)

 

In ninjatrader chart (please refer to the attachments for more information, in Asian timezone), the actual volume of Bar

1: 44936

2: 13522

3: 27911

4: 27144

 

What is Vol(I-V) in your log? TIA.

[Corey 10]

The best advice at the beginning I received was from Patrader...he suggested to read through the whole of the ET threads, first putting everybody but Spyder on ignore...that saves you months and helps eliminate confusion. Focus on the coarse tools only.

Yes, is a lot of work, I know...:-)

 

Also, start marking up charts, starting with the tapes.

 

hth,

 

Vienna

glad to see you 'do the work' which I think pretty much the reply since the beginning of your quest.

[vienna 10]

Hi Vienna,

 

Congratulations!

 

In the 2011_04_11_4 logs.pdf,

Bar 1 Vol-Level=2.6 (means 2600 contracts)

Bar 2 Vol-Level=2.82 (means 2820contracts)

Bar 3 Vol-Level=1.8 (means 1800contracts)

Bar 4 Vol-Level=1.8 (means 1800contracts)

 

In ninjatrader chart (please refer to the attachments for more information, in Asian timezone), the actual volume of Bar

1: 44936

2: 13522

3: 27911

4: 27144

 

What is Vol(I-V) in your log? TIA.

 

To be honest, I forgot how I used to log Volume. These days I note "20" when there is a 20k Vol bar...it's approximate.

Level I-V corresponds to the pace lines (DU- Extreme), but it does not really matter...just find a shorthand so that you have a RELATIVE measure of Volume. Check out what Pace+ Vol Peaks you have on the dominant legs versus the nondom legs...that's the point, does not matter how you classify it "A-D"..."I-V", whatever.

 

The important things of the log are 1. Find the items YOU deem important to track (they will change over time), and 2. find a vocabulary shortcut, a symbol etc. so that your notations only take seconds...otherwise you won't do it or you'll fall behind.

 

Spyder was not big on logging, but JH strongly recommends it...and so did Mr.B, as noted..

 

Anything that gets one to pay attention helps...

 

 

hth,

Vienna

[vienna 10]

glad to see you 'do the work' which I think pretty much the reply since the beginning of your quest.

 

Yes, seems to be the only way...was looking for shortcuts for at the beginning....unfortunately, didn't find any...

 

Good trading,

Vienna

[xioxxio 10]

I realize this method works on any time frame as long as there is liquid volume. I would like to hear from people using it on a different time frame to 5min; the markets you are trading and the reason for choosing that time interval.

 

Thanks

[Tams 20]

I realize this method works on any time frame as long as there is liquid volume. I would like to hear from people using it on a different time frame to 5min; the markets you are trading and the reason for choosing that time interval.

 

Thanks

 

HSI -- 1 min

 

 

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