Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Recommended Posts

Hi cnms2,

 

Thanks very much for your feedback.

 

Attached is the snippet of DAX 1 min chart (2011/5/26). I drew that up tape gaussian (b2b2r2b). The up tape started around 10:12 and arrived point 2 at 10:18 because of the increasing red volume bar. The up tape finished around 10:25 because of the 2 increasing red volume bars at 10:24 and 10:25 (although 10:24 and 10:25 represent down bars).

 

Am I right?

The method discussed in this thread works on any time frame, as long as there is enough liquidity. You can annotate the 1 min chart using the same methodology as the 5 minute chart. This doesn't necessarily mean that zooming from the 5 min into the 1 min is like using a magnifier. For this reason, it's probably better to stick to one time frame and extract all the information from it only. A faster chart may help carving turns, but only when your trading chart tells you to look for them.

 

I believe that your 1 min chart gaussians are not fully accurate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hey cnms - i'm having a hard time figuring out your chart ... would you care to describe it a little? TIA - mslk
Your request is too vague, and implies too much effort from my part, that might not even be helpful to anybody. Better: ask a specific, limited scope question, accompanied by a chart snippet, and your opinion. Somebody on this board might be able to help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my attempt to annotate yesterday (done end of day). I would be grateful if one (or more) of the more experienced traders could take a look and let me know what's right (if anything) and what's not.

8.thumb.gif.e1d0e9e71a42612863fdf814dd038d32.gif

Edited by 203NG
No attachment

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is my attempt to annotate yesterday (done end of day). I would be grateful if one (or more) of the more experienced traders could take a look and let me know what's right (if anything) and what's not.

 

My input:

 

You should consider annotating more fractals. One below and one above the fractal you currently trade. If you don't currently trade, you should consider how much you will improve by annotating 3 or more fractals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My input:

 

You should consider annotating more fractals. One below and one above the fractal you currently trade. If you don't currently trade, you should consider how much you will improve by annotating 3 or more fractals.

 

Thanks for your comment. This was done end of day in an effort to get the basic/"bigger picture" correct, because I found myself totally confused during the day with faster fractals. Of course this is by no means a "thoroughly annotated chart", I guess what I want to know is do the trend lines and gaussians that I have drawn accurately reflect the market or is there something that I have missed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is my attempt to annotate yesterday (done end of day). I would be grateful if one (or more) of the more experienced traders could take a look and let me know what's right (if anything) and what's not.
Start by making sure you have a good data source, and change bar coloring per Spydertrader's recommendations. Try to build your annotations starting from the fastest observable fractal up. I'm sorry that I don't find anything right yet. Just start from the beginning of this thread, very carefully reading and studying every word in Spydertrader's posts. Then keep practicing, re-reading, again and again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... I'm sorry that I don't find anything right yet....

 

Thanks cnms2 ... I'm sorry too:bang head:

 

I am a secondary Maths teacher. I have always found that Maths came easy to me, and I am amazed sometimes at how some of my students struggle with things that to me are so easy.

 

But its seems that with regard to trading, I am ironically in a similar situation, after years of reading threads and staring at charts :doh:

 

I read a quote from Spyder about the maths of trends, quote "The second derivatives of Price and Volume define a trend". The second derivative of a function changes sign well in advance of the function value (which only changes direction when the first derivative changes sign) and I don't know how the second derivative of volume let alone both together would work... but thats not my main question.

 

I am posting an old chart of Spyder's from ET, with the tapes and traverses annotated (by Spyder). I have annotated the Gaussians. I would like to know if my Gaussians are correct and if not what I should do differently. Secondly, Spyder's point 3 of the blue traverse occurs on an IBGS, WITHOUT INCREASING VOLUME. My understanding is that for a point 3 to be a point 3 there must be increasing volume, I would appreciate any comments about this i.e. am I being too rigid, what about the bar before with increasing volume and decrease volatility, ibgs means "guassian shift whether on increasing volume or not etc. I started reading some of Spyder's posts at the beginning of the thread. He says "unless and until the Volume Cycle Sequences reach completion, the current Price Trend cannot end". I understand volume sequence (up trend) to mean b2b2r2b with the last 2b being increasing volume after point 3". I cannot reconcile my understanding to the attached chart:confused:. If somebody could enlighten me I would be most grateful. TIA.

meli-daily2.gif.580373a7d65fb1825f0192d9525d9d1d.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks cnms2 ... I'm sorry too:bang head:

 

I am a secondary Maths teacher. I have always found that Maths came easy to me, and I am amazed sometimes at how some of my students struggle with things that to me are so easy.

 

But its seems that with regard to trading, I am ironically in a similar situation, after years of reading threads and staring at charts :doh:

 

I read a quote from Spyder about the maths of trends, quote "The second derivatives of Price and Volume define a trend". The second derivative of a function changes sign well in advance of the function value (which only changes direction when the first derivative changes sign) and I don't know how the second derivative of volume let alone both together would work... but thats not my main question.

 

I am posting an old chart of Spyder's from ET, with the tapes and traverses annotated (by Spyder). I have annotated the Gaussians. I would like to know if my Gaussians are correct and if not what I should do differently. Secondly, Spyder's point 3 of the blue traverse occurs on an IBGS, WITHOUT INCREASING VOLUME. My understanding is that for a point 3 to be a point 3 there must be increasing volume, I would appreciate any comments about this i.e. am I being too rigid, what about the bar before with increasing volume and decrease volatility, ibgs means "guassian shift whether on increasing volume or not etc. I started reading some of Spyder's posts at the beginning of the thread. He says "unless and until the Volume Cycle Sequences reach completion, the current Price Trend cannot end". I understand volume sequence (up trend) to mean b2b2r2b with the last 2b being increasing volume after point 3". I cannot reconcile my understanding to the attached chart:confused:. If somebody could enlighten me I would be most grateful. TIA.

This is an obvious example of "volume leads price". The dominant red volume takes over the non-dominant black volume before the tape sequence in the price panel seems to end: "trends overlap". The volume sequences are always obvious at traverse level; they may be less obvious at tape level.

 

Jack found the way the markets work, and openly explained it to whoever wanted to listen. Spydertrader understood it and translated it in a more accessible language, introducing some original helping concepts too. For those who study this method, sometimes various concepts don't make sense. This is because those traders don't fully understand the significance of those concepts, and how to apply them. This method is not a set of rules to be mechanically applied, in any context.

 

You wrote that you're a math teacher and that you studied this method for years. It may be time for you to try to look at it with a different mind set. Try to forget everything you've learned, and study again Spydertrader's posts here. I believe this should be enough to make you profitable. Be aware that looking at charts posted by Spydertrader on older threads might not apparently make sense. I'm writing "apparently", because it is just a matter of perception, not substance.

 

Also, to not add more difficulty to your quest, stick to the ES 5 min chart, using Spydertrader's coloring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is an obvious example of "volume leads price". The dominant red volume takes over the non-dominant black volume before the tape sequence in the price panel seems to end: "trends overlap". The volume sequences are always obvious at traverse level; they may be less obvious at tape level. ...
See attached an illustration of the "trends overlap" concept.

5aa710802f2fd_trendsoverlap.thumb.gif.3958d444e0d2f041c116203b31eba222.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks cnms2 ... I'm sorry too:bang head:

 

I am a secondary Maths teacher. I have always found that Maths came easy to me, and I am amazed sometimes at how some of my students struggle with things that to me are so easy.

 

But its seems that with regard to trading, I am ironically in a similar situation, after years of reading threads and staring at charts :doh:

 

I read a quote from Spyder about the maths of trends, quote "The second derivatives of Price and Volume define a trend". The second derivative of a function changes sign well in advance of the function value (which only changes direction when the first derivative changes sign) and I don't know how the second derivative of volume let alone both together would work... but thats not my main question.

 

I am posting an old chart of Spyder's from ET, with the tapes and traverses annotated (by Spyder). I have annotated the Gaussians. I would like to know if my Gaussians are correct and if not what I should do differently. Secondly, Spyder's point 3 of the blue traverse occurs on an IBGS, WITHOUT INCREASING VOLUME. My understanding is that for a point 3 to be a point 3 there must be increasing volume, I would appreciate any comments about this i.e. am I being too rigid, what about the bar before with increasing volume and decrease volatility, ibgs means "guassian shift whether on increasing volume or not etc. I started reading some of Spyder's posts at the beginning of the thread. He says "unless and until the Volume Cycle Sequences reach completion, the current Price Trend cannot end". I understand volume sequence (up trend) to mean b2b2r2b with the last 2b being increasing volume after point 3". I cannot reconcile my understanding to the attached chart:confused:. If somebody could enlighten me I would be most grateful. TIA.

 

Hi 203NG,

 

Is the chart for ES 18June2008? TIA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jack posted some thoughts in trading forum and career forum but they got deleted right away. I was able to so save them in chit chat forum/ technical strategy thread (click on views to sort all threads by views, it ranks fourth place)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jack posted some thoughts in trading forum and career forum but they got deleted right away. I was able to so save them in chit chat forum/ technical strategy thread (click on views to sort all threads by views, it ranks fourth place)

 

Can't find the post. Link?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Attached is my annotation on 2 May 2011 and 3 May 2011.

 

Black Skinny line: tape

Blue Medium line: up traverse

Pink Medium line: down traverse

Green Thick line: up channel

Red Thick line: down channel

 

Any comments on my chart? TIA

es_20110502_20110503_5min_with_gaussian.thumb.png.0de235e8782f7198acffb3b7752bd18b.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my understanding, pt 2 of a new container must be outside the previous container.

Quote from gucci

"A point 2 must BE outside of the previous thing RTL. AND it MUST be preceded by X2X sequence of the volume. One of these conditions wasn’t fulfilled at the time in questionon on the trading fractal."

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/6320-price-volume-relationship-63.html#post106288

 

In the attached charts (spyder's old charts in IR thread), why are Point 2 of those circled containers inside the previous container?

20081016_es.thumb.jpg.a4a41345450e89a71b718415cf831762.jpg

20081017_2channels.thumb.jpg.5743394f8a0f35e36c39d2bb8742b284.jpg

20081023_es.thumb.jpg.a803683072d68abb00199e5efc9da711.jpg

5aa710884729c_20081202_entireday.thumb.jpg.0dfdac6c7fc22e506946d600c74719c8.jpg

es111820085min.thumb.jpg.b9be7f55422fa501cb6061b43a34d254.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Attached is my annotation on 2 May 2011 and 3 May 2011.

 

Black Skinny line: tape

Blue Medium line: up traverse

Pink Medium line: down traverse

Green Thick line: up channel

Red Thick line: down channel

 

Any comments on my chart? TIA

 

green skinny line: up faster fractal traverse stuff

orange skinny line: down faster fractal traverse stuff

 

updated version, based on Jack's feedback.

 

Any comments on my chart? TIA

5aa7108881db4_es_20110502_20110503_5minversion2.thumb.png.1912454b6ef5e833aa3cccd7878425f8.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
green skinny line: up faster fractal traverse stuff

orange skinny line: down faster fractal traverse stuff

 

updated version, based on Jack's feedback.

 

Any comments on my chart? TIA

I find difficult to read your charts, so I can't comment on them.

 

Regarding spydertrader's charts, I believe it's a great exercise to try to reverse engineer them, and it would be an even better exercise to have their unannotated versions, to firstly try our hands on them, and only then to check how our work compares to the master's. Also, as it was repeatedly mentioned, they may have been drawn from a different perspective than the one emphasized at the beginning of this thread.

 

Regarding an apparent contradiction, in some places, between where the point 2 is annotated, and the "rule" that it has has to be outside the old RTL ... It definitely has to be so, because that's the way the jokari windows work: the dominant volume increases, and the non-dominant volume decreases.

 

I believe that what you've noticed on those charts, in most cases, it was spydertrader's intention to emphasize specific things like: accelerated traverses that redefine the boundary of the right side of the market, traverses that grow into channels firstly defining the new right side at traverse level that become later the new right side at channel level.

 

Maybe you should take only one instance and give your version of annotation, and the reasons behind it.

 

Anyway, good luck in your endeavor!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From my understanding, pt 2 of a new container must be outside the previous container.

 

I agree with cmns2 regarding the acceleration, and also deceleration. That was also a transition into breaking out the fractals. Remember each pt1 to pt2 needs an R2R or B2B, and 2 to 3 needs a 2X and so on. You'll find places where the original lines where accelerated and decelerated. The laterals were handled a little differently so allow for that.

 

Also the charts weren't de-gapped so a new point one might be an acceleration or deceleration point from the prior day.

 

I only have one unannotated chart handy, it's the 15th of Oct but has the prior day's peak which may add a little more perspective to your first pt2.

 

Regards - EZ

5aa7108a33390_10-15-08ES5m.thumb.png.39678c9c0a9154710d6ce3c9eee5bec2.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been trading JHM now for the last few weeks and it has been amazing. I have mainly been trading it on the "bark and leaves" level, since I am not using my own money :) . I have been using it on the SPI and KOSPI. Has anyone tried it on the NIFTY? There is no DU volume ever.

 

My advise to all newbies is watch the Tuscun Meetup Videos. The penny will drop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jack and or Spyder spoke about “outside bars” as not common occurrences. In the markets I cover they are very common. I can’t seem to find any documentation on how to handle them with respect to taping.

 

 

I treat that bar as the change it direction of the tape, is that correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sure thing.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Does anyone know the logic why Spydertrader painted those bars in Red or Black?

 

TIA

5aa71093e899a_RedandBlack.gif.5487f8aaab57cfae8498ce62c47cd5df.gif

Edited by NYCMB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does anyone know the logic why Spydertrader painted those bars in Red or Black?

 

TIA

 

public bool IsPriceUp(bar)

{

bool r = false;

if ((high[bar] <= high[bar + 1]) && (low[bar] < low[bar + 1])) // Down Move

r = false;

else if ((high[bar] > high[bar + 1]) && (low[bar] >= low[bar + 1])) // Up Move

r = true;

else if ((high[bar] <= high[bar + 1]) && (low[bar] >= low[bar + 1])) // Inside Bar

{

r = (close[bar] > open[bar]);

if (close[bar] == open[bar])

r = IsPriceUp(bar + 1);

}

else if ((high[bar] > high[bar + 1]) && (low[bar] < low[bar + 1])) // Outside Bar

r = (close[bar] >= close[bar + 1]);

return r;

}

 

If Price is not Up then Price is Down.

 

Happy Trading

Edited by stepan7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • NFLX Netflix stock, with a solid top of range breakout, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?NFLX  
    • NFLX Netflix stock, with a solid top of range breakout, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?NFLX  
    • It depends. If you have lots of money that you can buy a house without a loan and if you don't have any parents to sponsor then it is a good idea. Otherwise it might be a bad idea depending where in Canada you are heading to. I earned a good middle income in my home country and I migrated to Vancouver 5 years ago at the age of 35. I had to start right from the bottom, lowest of the low.. Now i am finally earning a middle income in Canada but I still cannot afford to buy a one bedroom apartment. Having left behind friends, family and home, most of the times I think it is not worth it.   In short, do not migrate if you already have a good life in your home country and you are happy. Only migrate to Canada if you really have to leave your home country say there is a war or something really bad. Discrimination still exists here and its really tough for newcomers unless you are super rich. Good luck. David Chong, Quora  
    • This is bigger than the internet. Bigger than mobile. Bigger than social media.   While everyone was distracted by stock market fluctuations and political theater…   Most people have NO IDEA what just happened last week with ChatGPT.   Their new memory feature allows ChatGPT to remember EVERYTHING about you across all your conversations.   Think about that for a minute...   While most tech companies have been collecting mere breadcrumbs about you - your likes, your clicks, your browsing history - OpenAI is now collecting the most valuable dataset in human history: your complete psychological profile.   This is Zuckerberg x 5,000.   The more you use ChatGPT, the more it understands you, becoming a supercharged reflection of yourself that improves at an exponential rate.   Are you a regular ChatGPT user?   Consider whether it’s time to turn off the “you can train on my information” feature. To prevent your data from being used for training while still using the memory feature:   Disable Model Training: Navigate to Settings > Data Controls. Toggle off "Improve the model for everyone". Manage Memory Settings: Go to Settings > Personalization > Memory. Here, you can: Turn off memory entirely. Delete specific memories. Use Temporary Chat for sessions that won't be saved or used for training. Now the investment implications…   Why This is Bigger Than You Think Consider this: the relationship between humans and ChatGPT is evolving beyond a mere tool.   People are now treating these AI assistants as friends, confidants, and even romantic partners.   I'm not making this up - there are already documented cases of people ending real human relationships to pursue “connections” with their AI companions.   A viral Instagram meme shows a person going through life with a glowing, featureless humanoid figure - representing ChatGPT - as their companion.   The post has over 1.1 million likes and comments like "Bro ChatGPT is like my best friend. Ain't even ashamed to say it" with 25,000 likes.   But here's where things get really interesting for investors and entrepreneurs...   Three Things to Watch For starters, hardware is the next big thing for the big players.   The iPhone form factor is dead.   It hasn't meaningfully changed in nearly a decade. The next evolution in hardware will be designed specifically to interface with these AI companions.   OpenAI is already working on hardware with Johnny Ive, the legendary designer behind the iPhone and iPod. But you can’t ignore Elon Musk’s edge here.   So what does all of this mean for you?   The companies that control the personal AI relationships will be worth trillions. OpenAI and Elon Musk will have the coziest moats. We're witnessing the birth of a new internet - one built on agents that can communicate with each other across platforms. Google's new agent-to-agent protocol allows AI agents to work together without sharing internal memories or tools. The hardware companies that create the perfect interface for these AI companions will dominate the next decade of technology. And almost nobody is talking about what this means.   My prediction? Within five years, most people will have a personal AI that knows them better than anyone else. And they will interact with it in ways that seem foreign today.   (And, yes, it will almost certainly have dystopian elements.)   In the meantime, the biggest gains won’t come from household names. And, right now, James is seeing a prime opportunity to invest in the most under-the-radar plays in AI…   For dirt cheap. By Chris C. Source: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/use-chatgpt-protect-yourself-now
    • KBH KB Home stock, nice day and rally off the 50.82 support area, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?KBH      
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.