The Price / Volume Relationship

[Ezzy 10]

OK, thanks . Relooking at the 2b again, bar 11-12 was a stitch long creating a possible b2b with the increase in black volume. If that was the case, then bar 13 should be point 2 to 3 with decreasing red. Instead bar 13 had increasing red indicating that a change in dominance had occurred and the sequence is not completed yet.

 

The 2B from bar 21 is full sequence non-dominant move from bar 21 to 27 with a decreasing volume to create Point 3. Bar 28 confirms WMCN with Point 3 move.

 

Am I close ?

 

The 10-12 sequence is on a smaller or finer level, you won't see all the movement on a 5min ES bar. But I'd bet the YM or a finer ES level would show the sequence ending on bar 12 or 13. So however you view it, there is a 2b for some fractal, but it's below the level you were looking for.

 

21 - 27 however has the full visible non dom volume sequence.

 

So yeah, looks like you got it.

[emac 10]

But I'd bet the YM or a finer ES level would show the sequence ending on bar 12 or 13. So however you view it, there is a 2b for some fractal, but it's below the level you were looking for.

 

21 - 27 however has the full visible non dom volume sequence.

 

So yeah, looks like you got it.

 

Not familiar with the finer ES tool, looking at the YM, yes, it is there. Thank you !

:thumbs up:

[Corey 10]

...

 

I have a question - in order to stay in the same fractals, is there a way or particular thing to keep in mind at all times e.g.

 

...

 

TQIA

sure, keep your eye on gaus seqs as long as you can draw a complete seq or you know that you are going to have a complete seq then you know you stay on the same fractal.

[patrader 10]

My view of the day, corrected after RTH in pink and grey to see the turns and forks better. Still many errors and I will need to do a detailed differentiation on the turns and forks.

 

I have a question - in order to stay in the same fractals, is there a way or particular thing to keep in mind at all times e.g.

 

1. I originally annotated that the 2R retracement (bar 21 to 32) ended on bar 32 but reviewed later to see that it should end at bar 26

2. bar 61 to 65 revealed a faster fractal gaussians, at that point in time, my mind was telling me my B2B from bar 56 to 60 MIGHT be a 2B retracement being completed , and the final 2R move is on the way with a BO r2r bar 65. The only signal I see was volume was low. So in order not to jump a fractal and maintain the outlook that bars 61 to 65 is but a faster fractal, what must one do when monitoring the volume and gaussian pane ?

 

TQIA

 

Many times the market will move from pt 2 to pt 3 of a container using a lateral.The market created a boundary on bar 63 creating a sym lateral that started on bar 60.Also volume (pace) levels decreased in the sym lateral showing non-dominance.Once the market creates a lateral a trader anticipates pt 3 and dominance(ibv) returning to complete the sequence.hth

[cnms2 10]

... I have a question - in order to stay in the same fractals, is there a way or particular thing to keep in mind at all times ...

... what must one do when monitoring the volume and gaussian pane ?

TQIA

Besides what others recommended, other things that seem to help me:

• write 1, 2, 3 on your chart's price pane, wherever you determine them to be, for the three fractals you're monitoring (trading fractal being the middle one); don't rely only on drawn lines
  
• be aware at all times what's the current pace level, and what period of the day you are in; during extreme pace a complete volume sequence may indicate one fractal, during moderate pace a sub-fractal, and during low pace a sub-sub-fractal, so to speak; consequently, time wise, a complete sequence on a given fractal takes more bars during lower pace.
  

[emac 10]

Gucci,

 

Friday 21st Jan had a move similar to your fractal drill last Nov. It is not exactly the same but had the elements of an R2R being ended at bar 29 instead of bars 12, 18 or 22 although at first look, each of them had the elements of ending the R2R i.e. return to dominance with increasing red bar after a black decreasing volume retracement.

 

All 3 had a common factor that the decreasing black volume retracements had no visible proper 1-2-3 move on 5m chart.

 

In your drill, if I understood correctly, the R2R was created via faster fractal move hence the next dominant 2R move would anticipate a similar faster fractal which explained the point 3 later at 10:55 in that chart snippet. On last Friday's chart, an R2R was created and broke the black rtl and a point 2 formed on bar 12 outside the rtl.

 

On Friday's chart, using a faster fractal move, what is the process of differentiation to allow me to correctly annotate each 2R move such that I will arrive at the final R2R bar 29 ? Using the same logic, I would have my first R2R ending at bar 18, then with another 1-2-3 move to end the next dominant move at bar 29 but the market has proven otherwise to end at 40.

 

TQ

 

emac

Edited January 25, 2011 by emac

[Martinigue 10]

As nobody has replied to my latest post, I presume that none here actually uses this method in their own trading and all that happens here is an academic debate over which patterns have been identified by Mr. X and how Mr. Y subsequently accuses Mr. X of pattern blindness.. am I correct?:-)

[joshdance 10]

Hi All,

 

I just subscribed to this thread which, at a first glance at least, looks to me that deals with, sort of, 'measurable' objectives and it must be a real fun and challenge to study. Before I'll make it thoroughly through the 261 pages I want to ask - has any of you guys here made it to actually using this method of market analysis as your primary trading tool and with what success? And what about spydertrader - what level of success does it bring to you?

 

May the pips be with you and happy and prosperous 2011!:applaud:

 

I believe the lack of an answer would tend to indicate "no"-- pretty charts, no money. At least it seems that way....

[Corey 10]

As nobody has replied to my latest post, I presume that none here actually uses this method in their own trading ..

I did post a link to my brokerage statement, trades performance on excel sheets for all 3 months but it got deleted right away.

 

edit: I guess you can pm me for link 78 viewers so far. I am trying to reach 80 viewers.

[Martinigue 10]

That is what I fear ( and truly hope it is not true); but let us see what corey has in stock ..:-)

 

I believe the lack of an answer would tend to indicate "no"-- pretty charts, no money. At least it seems that way....

[Corey 10]

That is what I fear ( and truly hope it is not true); but let us see what corey has in stock ..:-)

link sent, btw another +$10K for the first 3 weeks of this year.

I can send you the new brokerage statement too. But let me say this,

seeing my statement is not going to make you rich doing the work is what's required of you.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Corey

[Martinigue 10]

Exactly my point. Still, seeing your statements is just one part of the answer; are the results depicted in the statements in any way realted to the methods discussed in this thread? If so, when did you start using it? PM is okay again.:-)

 

link sent, btw another +$10K for the first 3 weeks of this year.

I can send you the new brokerage statement too. But let me say this,

seeing my statement is not going to make you rich doing the work is what's required of you.

[j0b0123 10]

I will give my 2c here, as I disagree with the premise of this thread based on years of actual, data driven testing.

 

I have found there is no correlative relationship between volume and price movement. This is after exhaustive testing using many very complex and simple rules for volume, including multiple timeframe analysis and other.

 

There is some minor confirming relationship if there is a very key area (technical) that is broken. On volume it tends to continue into the future, without, not. However, its only like a 65% vs 35% thing, not black and white.

 

For an average move of .5%, 1%, 2%, 3% etc, over ANY length of time, the volume before this move has almost no correlation or predictive value that a move is going to happen. The volume during this move has close to no predictive power over whether this move will continue and how much it might continue.

 

I am sure there are many of you that will show me examples of where this works. And this would be true. I tested the entire subset of US stocks (about 3500 names) over 7 years of data, using many simple and advanced techniques.

 

Over short runs of time, it will lead and or predict, and then just abruptly stop. Over long runs of time, under the same "technical" formation, it provides no use whatsoever.

 

It is easy in hindsight to pick out the areas where it did work, but the brain ignores all the "similar" circumstances that are almost identical, but which nothing or the opposite of what the volume shows happens.

 

Just my 2c here.

[Corey 10]

Exactly my point. Still, seeing your statements is just one part of the answer; are the results depicted in the statements in any way realted to the methods discussed in this thread? If so, when did you start using it? PM is okay again.:-)

 

based on PMs I received it looks like some of you missed the link since it got deleted so quickly. Now for the main answer the main reason why I posted the result. The result is from 1 of my student she have known nothing else, no internet trading forum, no trading class, no trading book, no prior trading experience she was out of work and looking for something to do. What she learnt was what I told her and what I told her was taking directly from what I read online as I don't exchange PM with Jack or Spyder. Thus that is why I said in the thread it's 100% pure Jack's method.

[Martinigue 10]

Corey, seems to me like you do not want to give a straight answer to my straight question ... The rationale behind my requests was that - before I get too excited about a method that looks to me like being based on something more reasonable than mere statistic representations of the past, I wanted to know if anyone was using it to their own tangible profits...and got no positive confirmation as of yet.

 

based on PMs I received it looks like some of you missed the link since it got deleted so quickly. Now for the main answer the main reason why I posted the result. The result is from 1 of my student she have known nothing else, no internet trading forum, no trading class, no trading book, no prior trading experience she was out of work and looking for something to do. What she learnt was what I told her and what I told her was taking directly from what I read online as I don't exchange PM with Jack or Spyder. Thus that is why I said in the thread it's 100% pure Jack's method.

[Corey 10]

guys, I am on Paltalk daily, go to paltalk.com download and install paltalk. Important note: after installation add *.paltalk.com to IE restricted site so that paltalk can not popup on your pc. I dont use any other software as they all cost more resource than paltalk. Then go look for 'price action trading' room. This way we can do chat and charts in real time as end of day chart is boring to me. use the same name as paltalk name so I can recognize you.

 

ps. paltalk let you create a room on the fly so if more people show up i will create a separated room just for mada people np.

Edited January 29, 2011 by Corey

[frenchfry 10]

Corey, seems to me like you do not want to give a straight answer to my straight question ... The rationale behind my requests was that - before I get too excited about a method that looks to me like being based on something more reasonable than mere statistic representations of the past, I wanted to know if anyone was using it to their own tangible profits...and got no positive confirmation as of yet.

 

Hi Martinigue,

 

I understand your point of view that you would like to get a positive confirmation before you invest time and energy into something which at the end might turn out to be useless.

 

Me myself I have seen several examples in different places were some people "proofed" that they are profitable using this method. BUT... for every one of them there is probably 50 others (including) me who are either not successful, clueless or both. So at the end what do you do? Three (or more) people making "shit loads" of money and thousand others trying this method lose their ass. What do you decide? Invest time and energy or stay away?

 

You said it yourself: "...something more reasonable...". This means one or two things already jumped in your eyes which tell your brain: "I should have a closer look." Have a closer look at those things. There is maybe more? Take what works for you and then either continue your investigation or try the next method.

 

I say all this because I suppose that you are already adult and out of school and that you don't need anybody anymore (mom, dad, teacher, boss, etc.) to tell you that something is good or not and that you should follow it or not.

 

Good luck!

[NYCMB 10]

guys, I am on Paltalk daily, go to paltalk.com download and install paltalk. Important note: after installation add *.paltalk.com to IE restricted site so that paltalk can not popup on your pc. I dont use any other software as they all cost more resource than paltalk. Then go look for 'price action trading' room. This way we can do chat and charts in real time as end of day chart is boring to me. use the same name as paltalk name so I can recognize you.

 

ps. paltalk let you create a room on the fly so if more people show up i will create a separated room just for mada people np.

Hi corey,

Thank you for Paltalk price action trading room. I hope I can figure out how to contact other 3 members on 31January2011.

[Corey 10]

already, room is open so you can check it out.

 

I include a pic on paltalk features so you know what to expect.

 

here is what on menu

 

3 stages of a setup.

tone, lock and fire

 

1) if i see seq1+seq2+seq3 and x2x2y2x then I have the right tone

 

2) next after tone if I see seq1 and x2x then the setup is locked

 

3) next after lock if I see seq2 and 2y then I have the green light to fire

 

hence tone, lock and fire.

 

that is all I will focus on, good luck to all.

[NYCMB 10]

already, room is open so you can check it out.

 

I include a pic on paltalk features so you know what to expect.

 

here is what on menu

 

3 stages of a setup.

tone, lock and fire

 

1) if i see seq1+seq2+seq3 and x2x2y2x then I have the right tone

 

2) next after tone if I see seq1 and x2x then the setup is locked

 

3) next after lock if I see seq2 and 2y then I have the green light to fire

 

hence tone, lock and fire.

 

that is all I will focus on, good luck to all.

 

Hi corey,

 

Smart idea! You make the system good for the fifth grade.

 

Could you advise on the blocking issue? Please see the attachment. TIA

[Martinigue 10]

Hi Martinigue,

I say all this because I suppose that you are already adult and out of school and that you don't need anybody anymore (mom, dad, teacher, boss, etc.) to tell you that something is good or not and that you should follow it or not.

Good luck!

 

As you said frenchfry, neither I need others to tell me what to follow, nor did I ask for any type of such information; I am sorry that my inquiry was too complex for you and lead you into such thinking, but I promise to be more dscriptive next time ...

[Corey 10]

select unblock paltalk, it is not related to put paltalk on restricted list.

[vienna 10]

select unblock paltalk, it is not related to put paltalk on restricted list.

 

Corey, went to the paltalk Price Action Room... do not see your name there?

[Corey 10]

thanks all for stopping by paltalk room. Monday is always the most active day, for the rest of the week I will do chat and chart as time permits.

[NYCMB 10]

thanks all for stopping by paltalk room. Monday is always the most active day, for the rest of the week I will do chat and chart as time permits.

Hi corey,

 

Could you post a chart sample of Symmetric which you talked about in Paltalk chat room? TIA