The Price / Volume Relationship

[gucci 10]

Is it because we hadn't had a Brown P3 yet by 14:05?

And the reason we hadn't had a Brown P3 by 14:05 is because all price action is still contained within the first Tape from Brown P1 to Brown P2 until 14:10?

In other words, we can't have a new P1 of anything until we've had a P3 of the previous thing we were building?

 

One more time... My answer won't give you any confidence. And that is what you need to be able to trade with support, comfort and confidence. Take your answer and apply it to the charts. This is where the confidence will come from. It should work anytime. Do not forget to think about the volume pane. It is still important. See what happens. You are on the right track.

 

One more thing. There might be a kind of rule one could have deduced from the general principles explained in the beginning of the thread, that would go like this: "The market always builds a new point three with every VE it creates." Now you can see what is wrong with this rule.

 

HTH.

Edited October 24, 2010 by gucci

[zt379 10]

One more time... My answer won't give you any confidence. And that is what you need to be able to trade with support, comfort and confidence. Take your answer and apply it to the charts. This is where the confidence will come from. It should work anytime. Do not forget to think about the volume pane. It is still important. See what happens. You are on the right track.

 

To have a P1 of anything we then need decreasing volume.

P1 to P2 has 2 halves of a leg, decreasing to increasing.

So I guess we don't have a P1 at 14'05 because 14.10 has increasing volume over 14.05.?

 

Trouble is I've lost the plot as to why repositioning or even having a new P1 is on the table, other than Spyders reply to Breakeven about a new Traverse P1 being in the wrong position on a chart Breakeven posted ...lol

Edited October 24, 2010 by zt379

[gucci 10]

To have a P1 of anything we then need decreasing volume.

P1 to P2 has 2 halves of a leg, decreasing to increasing.

So I guess we don't have a P1 at 14'05 because 14.10 has increasing volume over 14.05.?

 

Trouble is I've lost the plot as to why repositioning or even having a new P1 is on the table, other than Spyders reply to Breakeven about a new Traverse P1 being in the wrong position on a chart Breakeven posted ...lol

 

Ok, here is the thing.

 

In order to have a traverse you need your sequence of volume being complete, right? You have it down cold. X2X2Y2X.

 

But there is something else. What else do you need? Your tapes (the price pane). What else? These tapes have to BREAK each other to make a traverse complete and they have to do so in conjunction with volume.

 

What else do you have to pay your attention to when doing your M of MADA?

 

VE right?

 

Why? Because they MIGHT create a new point 3. So in this case your sequence will start anew, restarting your MADA AND replacing your RTL.

 

Why MIGHT?

 

Because not all of VE’s create a new sequence. Some of them are just the remnants of a previous sequence waiting for its completion. So in the example I suggested to work at, the market startet a new sequence at 13:35, but did not do so at 14:05. At 14:05 it just ACCELERATED the comletion of the sequence it started at 13:35. And why? Because it could not complete its 2B before it did its VE of this new sequence.

 

HTH.

Edited October 24, 2010 by gucci
clarification

[Breakeven 10]

Edit: nm...................

Edited October 24, 2010 by Breakeven

[MightyMouse 12]

Just wondering if any devout followers of this method have successfully applied it to markets in real time with real money.

 

 

Simply stated, I am incredibly skeptical that anyone can apply this with any type of long term success.

[cnms2 10]

A few notes on the 12-02-2008 down-trend sequence.

[patrader 10]

Ok, here is the thing.

 

In order to have a traverse you need your sequence of volume being complete, right? You have it down cold. X2X2Y2X.

 

But there is something else. What else do you need? Your tapes (the price pane). What else? These tapes have to BREAK each other to make a traverse complete and they have to do so in conjunction with volume.

 

What else do you have to pay your attention to when doing your M of MADA?

 

VE right?

 

Why? Because they MIGHT create a new point 3. So in this case your sequence will start anew, restarting your MADA AND replacing your RTL.

 

Why MIGHT?

 

Because not all of VE’s create a new sequence. Some of them are just the remnants of a previous sequence waiting for its completion. So in the example I suggested to work at, the market startet a new sequence at 13:35, but did not do so at 14:05. At 14:05 it just ACCELERATED the comletion of the sequence it started at 13:35. And why? Because it could not complete its 2B before it did its VE of this new sequence.

 

HTH.

Gucci,for a VE to create a new sequence(move to a new point 1) the VE has to occur after point 3(in this case the 2B completed) and when a trader would have been looking for an FTT but instead the market VE'ed the LTL?

[zt379 10]

 

Why MIGHT?

 

Because not all of VE’s create a new sequence. Some of them are just the remnants of a previous sequence waiting for its completion. So in the example I suggested to work at, the market startet a new sequence at 13:35, but did not do so at 14:05. At 14:05 it just ACCELERATED the comletion of the sequence it started at 13:35. And why? Because it could not complete its 2B before it did its VE of this new sequence.

 

HTH.

 

 

Is it because we hadn't had a Brown P3 yet by 14:05?

And the reason we hadn't had a Brown P3 by 14:05 is because all price action is still contained within the first Tape from Brown P1 to Brown P2 until 14:10?

In other words, we can't have a new P1 of anything until we've had a P3 of the previous thing we were building?

And we couldn't have had the P3 until we had a separate container (Tape here 14.10 to 14.20) from P2?

 

I'm hoping the above (in bold)both say the same thing all be it in a different way...what do you think ?

 

To add, I don't think the first Brown LTL is valid at 13.35.

Reason being that we would need a BO of the P1 to P2 Tape RTL to confirm we had a P2.

We don't get that until the 14:15 bar, hence the Brown number P2 at 14:10 and the Brown P3 there after at 14:20.

Imo we are only VE'ing the Magenta LTL.

Had the Brown LTL (the one from where the Brown number 2 is) VE'd then we would be looking for a new P1 after

the Brown number P3...?

 

Am I going mad ..lol ?

Edited October 24, 2010 by zt379

[Spydertrader 10]

For a VE to create a new sequence(move to a new point 1) the VE has to occur after point 3(in this case the 2B completed) and when a trader would have been looking for an FTT but instead the market VE'ed the LTL?

 

Can you fail to do something you've just completed doing?

 

Can Price Fail To Traverse that which it has just traversed?

 

- Spydertrader

[Spydertrader 10]

Just wondering if any devout followers of this method have successfully applied it to markets in real time with real money.

 

More than a few people have posted their trade execution reports (either on TL.com or on ET.com) indicating they have reached profitability.

 

Simply stated, I am incredibly skeptical that anyone can apply this with any type of long term success.

 

Nobody will care if you remain skeptical right up until the point you begin to make money. In fact, I was skeptical while I was first starting to make money. Ninety-five out of a hundred people dismiss my posts as pure hokum. I've always been cool with that.

 

- Spydertrader

[patrader 10]

Can you fail to do something you've just completed doing?

 

Can Price Fail To Traverse that which it has just traversed?

 

- Spydertrader

Yes the market either FAILS to traverse(ftt's) after completing the order of events or it TRAVERSES(ve's) and continues on for another go around of events until it FAILS to traverse.Where have i read that before?LOL.Thank you spyder and gucci for your patience. Edited October 24, 2010 by patrader

[MightyMouse 12]

More than a few people have posted their trade execution reports (either on TL.com or on ET.com) indicating they have reached profitability.

 

 

 

Nobody will care if you remain skeptical right up until the point you begin to make money. In fact, I was skeptical while I was first starting to make money. Ninety-five out of a hundred people dismiss my posts as pure hokum. I've always been cool with that.

 

- Spydertrader

 

The question was directed to the followers.

[Spydertrader 10]

The question was directed to the followers.

 

The people participating here aren't 'followers' of any sort. They are here working towards learning something. As such, to direct your question to students makes little sense.

 

Would you ask a Med Student how many surgeries he or she performed successfully?

 

Would you ask a Law Student how many cases he or she has won?

 

Would you ask an apprentice carpenter how many homes he or she has built?

 

If you truely do have an interest in receiving an answer to your question from individuals who have completed the learning process, then you've already been provided the location of the evidence you seek.

 

Look for it, or don't look for the evidence already provided. Makes no difference to me, but you might want to consider the possibility your question has already been asked (and answered) long before you ever posted in this thread.

 

Good trading to you.

 

- Spydertrader

[MightyMouse 12]

The people participating here aren't 'followers' of any sort. They are here working towards learning something. As such, to direct your question to students makes little sense.

 

Would you ask a Med Student how many surgeries he or she performed successfully?

 

Would you ask a Law Student how many cases he or she has won?

 

Would you ask an apprentice carpenter how many homes he or she has built?

 

If you truely do have an interest in receiving an answer to your question from individuals who have completed the learning process, then you've already been provided the location of the evidence you seek.

 

Look for it, or don't look for the evidence already provided. Makes no difference to me, but you might want to consider the possibility your question has already been asked (and answered) long before you ever posted in this thread.

 

Good trading to you.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Ok, so where do I find a student of this method who has received a degree like a med, or law student eventually receives and is achieving success the way a lawyer or doctor does?

 

The sources you provided seem to have students and no degreed traders achieving success.

 

Are you trading it successfully or are you just the president and not a client?

[Spydertrader 10]

The sources you provided seem to have students and no degreed traders achieving success.

 

The only measure of success a trader needs is the direction of his or her trading account.

 

Within this thread, within other threads on this web site, and within numerous threads on elitetrader.com's web site, people (including myself) have posted their trade blotters showing their levels of success.

 

Choosing not to go locate the evidence you seek, is far different than acting as if the evidence doesn't exist.

 

Are you trading it successfully or are you just the president and not a client?

 

I've traded using the Price / Volume Relationship since 2006 - first with equities, and now, exclsuively with futures. Trading, currently (and for the last 6 years), represents my only source of income.

 

You can locate an entire year of my equities trades (and their execution reports) on ET.

 

You can locate several of my futures trades over on ET using 20 - 40 ES contracts.

 

You can locate trades made by people who studied the Price / Volume relationship in this thread, in other threads on this web site, and also, over at ET.com's web site.

 

I don't make a dime if you read the information I have shared, and I don't lose a dime if you don't read it. Nothing is for sale here. When I present at the Traders Expos (NYC or Las Vegas), I do not charge for my time. Any fees ($50 bucks at the NYC Expo and $100 at the Vegas Event) went to defray the cost of room rental, lunch, dinner, dessert and drinks.

 

Read what's here, or don't. It really makes no difference to me. Either way, may you enjoy success in your future endeavors.

 

Good Trading to you.

 

- Spydertrader

[moosie 10]

Any thoughts on the two annotation options in the attached screenshots? In the first, I regard the upward movement from the 10:20 (close-of) bar as a tape that pushes out to a new pt 3 of the medium short container. In the second, it is annotated as a full traverse.

 

In the previous attempt I annotated it as the traverse, but it feels like I have to torture the gaussians to match the drawn thin containers. How should one choose between the interpretations?

[Spydertrader 10]

How should one choose between the interpretations?

 

You should consider the effect changing Pace has on your ability to 'see' things clearly, and start again. You should also consider annotating three fractals in an effort to see how the nesting process works. Sometimes proper nesting of fractals can make things a bit easier to see.

 

- Spydertrader

[cnms2 10]

Any thoughts on the two annotation options in the attached screenshots? In the first, I regard the upward movement from the 10:20 (close-of) bar ...

I believe the upward movement starts earlier than you annotated.

[gucci 10]

I'm hoping the above (in bold)both say the same thing all be it in a different way...what do you think ?

 

To add, I don't think the first Brown LTL is valid at 13.35.

Reason being that we would need a BO of the P1 to P2 Tape RTL to confirm we had a P2.

We don't get that until the 14:15 bar, hence the Brown number P2 at 14:10 and the Brown P3 there after at 14:20.

Imo we are only VE'ing the Magenta LTL.

Had the Brown LTL (the one from where the Brown number 2 is) VE'd then we would be looking for a new P1 after

the Brown number P3...?

 

Am I going mad ..lol ?

 

Note how you just omitted to mention VE in your second quote highlited bold and still want it to express the same as the bold stuff in the first quote.

[zt379 10]

Note how you just omitted to mention VE in your second quote highlited bold and still want it to express the same as the bold stuff in the first quote.

 

Yes I see what you mean.

I think it was a case of my brain knowing what it was thinking without realising it wasn't on the printed page.

The subject matter moved onto VE's and new P1's so I was grappling with that

as further information, and then began to realize how it related to my initial questions about fractals,

for which I would like to thank you gucci.

It has been a further and welcome insight.

Thank you.

 

If I may ask for your continued patience, I would like to re-iterate from

your post # 2373, and my question in post#2374

 

I knew this because the market changed pace on 16:35 bar and didn’t return to dominance yet. Look at the price bar and volume. Furthermore all of this transpired in an accelerated B2B container.

and my questions...

Would I be correct to say that the green rtl on your dax chart is your accelerated ?

If so then you wouldn't have accelerated that until the close of the 16:35?

If so I'm a bit confused by that last sentence above I've put in in bold?

 

16:35 on your Dax clip closes above it's open and outside the range of the previous red bar, but you still considered it as a non dom bar. I shall have to ponder on why.

I'm hoping the reason is definitive ?

 

My continued thanks gucci...

Edited October 25, 2010 by zt379

[Breakeven 10]

You should consider the effect changing Pace has on your ability to 'see' things clearly, and start again.

 

- Spydertrader

 

I am not exactly sure what you mean by Pace. I have done some searching and can't decipher if it is just volume levels/peaks or the speed that a fractal completes or the volatility of price.

 

Could you give us a bit of a primer on what exactly Pace is?

 

Thanks very much!

[MightyMouse 12]

The only measure of success a trader needs is the direction of his or her trading account.

 

Within this thread, within other threads on this web site, and within numerous threads on elitetrader.com's web site, people (including myself) have posted their trade blotters showing their levels of success.

 

Choosing not to go locate the evidence you seek, is far different than acting as if the evidence doesn't exist.

 

 

 

I've traded using the Price / Volume Relationship since 2006 - first with equities, and now, exclsuively with futures. Trading, currently (and for the last 6 years), represents my only source of income.

 

You can locate an entire year of my equities trades (and their execution reports) on ET.

 

You can locate several of my futures trades over on ET using 20 - 40 ES contracts.

 

You can locate trades made by people who studied the Price / Volume relationship in this thread, in other threads on this web site, and also, over at ET.com's web site.

 

I don't make a dime if you read the information I have shared, and I don't lose a dime if you don't read it. Nothing is for sale here. When I present at the Traders Expos (NYC or Las Vegas), I do not charge for my time. Any fees ($50 bucks at the NYC Expo and $100 at the Vegas Event) went to defray the cost of room rental, lunch, dinner, dessert and drinks.

 

Read what's here, or don't. It really makes no difference to me. Either way, may you enjoy success in your future endeavors.

 

Good Trading to you.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Well it certainly is a rare event when I meet someone who is so selfless.

[Spydertrader 10]

Could you give us a bit of a primer on what exactly Pace is?!

 

See those lines in the Volume Pane? Those are different Pace Levels (VDU, DU, Slow, Medium, Fast and Extreme). In the beginning of this thread (First couple of pages), I posted a graphic showing the relationship between Volitility (Price) and Pace levels (Volume). Others (cnms2's posts come to mind, along with a few others) have provided guidance with respect to what one can expect with certain types of Pace Changes.

 

- Spydertrader

[gucci 10]

Well it certainly is a rare event when I meet someone who is so selfless.

 

What is your point? Don't show us how witty you are. Just spit it out.

[Tams 20]

ignore is the most powerful weapon on an anonymous forum

Edited October 25, 2010 by Tams