The Price / Volume Relationship

[gucci 10]

Just like a clock. Part 2.

[gucci 10]

  innersky said:

I try not to concentrate on colours but on fractals of the same weight.

 

Because the lowest fractal (cfr the blue point 2) isn't complete yet. We still expect point three and then an FTT on this fractal before it can complete.

 

--

Innesky

 

 

So what exactly don't you understand? All of the faster things are inside, aren't they?

 

I do not understand your cfr.

[gucci 10]

Just like a clock. Part3.

 

Edit: the last down Gaussian should be red. This site sucks big time. One wastes much more time logging in and waiting than posting. They sure employ some talented programmers...

Edited October 12, 2010 by gucci

[Boux 10]

  MKTr said:

Monday, 11 Oct 2010.

 

I am anticipating resumption of short trends on several fractals very soon.

 

MK

 

Very nice MADA!!

But I have to ask--What told you this?----I saw a very "clear" B2B yesterday afternoon and have been lost this morning as a result.

 

Thanks

[Spydertrader 10]

  Boux said:

I saw a very "clear" B2B yesterday afternoon and have been lost this morning as a result.

 

Didn't you see a VE just prior to the area you referenced?

 

What must come next after the market creates a VE?

 

What did the market then provide?

 

- Spydertrader

[wind_ 11]

Tuesday 12 Oct 2010

 

TIA for any comments/feedback.

[zt379 10]

  patrader said:

1. Why does the sequence for the thin lines (thing, goat, tape, whatever) end at

10:30 ?

 

#1. Order of events completed on thin line fractal(fastest fractal shown with lines)

 

#2.The trough(10:45) location is the first decreasing red(non-dominant) bar after thin line fractal order of events completion and is immediately followed by an increasing black (dominant) volume bar.The 10:35 bar is decreasing black volume bar but price is still contained in the taped two bar formation therefore still dominant.

#3.Same reasons for trough location as was given to question 2 but for nesting one slower fractal.The 10:55 bar is increasing black volume bar plus price is contained in the taped two bar formation therefore it's still dominant . #4.The orders of events was stretched out with no non-dominant order of events(faster fractal)?

#5. Because of the non-dominant volume bar which broke out of the taped two bar formation

#6.Because there was no non-dominant order of events completed during the last dominant order of events(faster fractal). # 7. lol .Comments welcome

 

Does anyone have an answer to #1 ?

 

Also wouldn't the medium fractal P3 need to be outside the thin fractals RTL ?

 

ie: if a B2B2R gets us to a P3, why is the medium P3 (at 11:10) inside the thin b2b2r2b (Olive) RTL ?

 

Also if the Olive RTL is the thin fractals RTL then where is the medium level P1 to P2 container (rtl)?

Wouldn't the medium fractal P3 need to be outside its medium level P1 to P2 container (RTL) ?

 

hope that makes sense and appreciate any help.

[Boux 10]

  Spydertrader said:

Didn't you see a VE just prior to the area you referenced?

 

What must come next after the market creates a VE?

 

What did the market then provide?

 

- Spydertrader

 

1) Yes

2) In all honesty I have yet to figure that out ( I presume by the question that there will be some form of continuation?)

3) Seemed to be another B2R

[patrader 10]

  zt379 said:

Does anyone have an answer to #1 ?

 

Also wouldn't the medium fractal P3 need to be outside the thin fractals RTL ?

 

ie: if a B2B2R gets us to a P3, why is the medium P3 (at 11:10) inside the thin b2b2r2b (Olive) RTL ?

 

Also if the Olive RTL is the thin fractals RTL then where is the medium level P1 to P2 container (rtl)?

Wouldn't the medium fractal P3 need to be outside its medium level P1 to P2 container (RTL) ?

 

hope that makes sense and appreciate any help.

 

On the price pane i read the green and red lines as thin lines,olive as medium lines and dark blue as thick line.So the medium fractal completes its order of events(b2b2r2b) at 11:20. Also this is the point where the thick fractal completes the first dominant trend(B2B) and why spydertrader put the dark blue "2" there.The market needs to complete the remaining(2R2B) order of events for the thick fractal before a trader can look for change.When a trend "stretches" out a trader should be able to see the nesting of the three fractals.

[Breakeven 10]

  Spydertrader said:

Alright.

 

Now, we are getting somewhere. You've narrowed things down to a binary choice.

 

Which Trough best represents the market fractals in terms of 'nesting'?

 

You've drawn things one way (as did Nkhoi in an earlier post), but another possible way also exists.

 

See Attached.

 

 

You (and Nkhoi) show nesting of fractals at the second trough of the diagram. You could have chosen to nest within the first trough of the diagram.

 

What you must now do is determine logically which of these two techniques best describes the market (any market).

 

Look at the attached snippet of your drawing, and then look at an area of the market where you know how the market presented itself. Use the YM if you have to, but test both answers in an effort to arrive at the correct answer.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

I have always assumed that the slower fractal x2x is drawn at the second gaussian trough (not necessarily the second volume trough) because the faster fractal must complete before you have an x2x on the slower.

 

Is this the direction you were heading? Or is there a more precise explanation?

 

Thanks!

[Breakeven 10]

  Spydertrader said:

Didn't you see a VE just prior to the area you referenced?

 

What must come next after the market creates a VE?

 

What did the market then provide?

 

- Spydertrader

 

1. Yes.

 

2. A period of doubt and confusion trying to decide if a new thing started or if the old thing is still going.

 

3. A period of doubt and confusion.

 

:crap:

[Boux 10]

  Breakeven said:

1. Yes.

 

2. A period of doubt and confusion trying to decide if a new thing started or if the old thing is still going.

 

3. A period of doubt and confusion.

 

:crap:

 

Hey! I resemble those comments!!

[Spydertrader 10]

  Boux said:

In all honesty I have yet to figure that out ( I presume by the question that there will be some form of continuation?)

 

If one has set as a goal to locate an FTT (Failure to Traverse), how can the market fail to do that which it has already completed? Has not Price traversed its container by creating a VE?

 

- Spydertrader

[Spydertrader 10]

  Breakeven said:

I have always assumed that the slower fractal x2x is drawn at the second gaussian trough (not necessarily the second volume trough) because the faster fractal must complete before you have an x2x on the slower.

 

Is this the direction you were heading? Or is there a more precise explanation?

 

I want everyone to head in the direction where they do not have to assume. They simply, know.

 

The market has indicated the exact way to annotate, which also allows a trader to test whichever technique they choose against that which the market provides.

 

- Spydertrader

[Spydertrader 10]

  Breakeven said:

A period of doubt and confusion trying to decide if a new thing started or if the old thing is still going.

 

Whether you experience doubt or confusion (or not) has no influence on what the market does after a Volatility Expansion.

 

Start by recognizing what one must do with the right trend line after a VE.

 

- Spydertrader

[Boux 10]

  Spydertrader said:

If one has set as a goal to locate an FTT (Failure to Traverse), how can the market fail to do that which it has already completed? Has not Price traversed its container by creating a VE?

 

- Spydertrader

 

Quite logical---and I'm studying Jack's posts about accelerating RTL, closes in the zone, no FTT on VE(yet he implies that they do happen) etc. and still have confusion after I see what happens in the attached---isn't VE2 a valid VE on higher vol. than VE1?

And yes, I know context is King and it is up to me to see what is right in front of me---so here I am, just trying to see.

Thanks---I trully appreciate your time

Edited October 14, 2010 by Boux
Attaching chart

[zt379 10]

  patrader said:

On the price pane i read the green and red lines as thin lines,olive as medium lines and dark blue as thick line.So the medium fractal completes its order of events(b2b2r2b) at 11:20. Also this is the point where the thick fractal completes the first dominant trend(B2B) and why spydertrader put the dark blue "2" there.The market needs to complete the remaining(2R2B) order of events for the thick fractal before a trader can look for change.When a trend "stretches" out a trader should be able to see the nesting of the three fractals.

Hi patrader. if the olive is the medium container why is it's P2 at the 10:10 bar ? Shouldn't the medium P2 be at the 11:00 bar, where the medium B2B ends ?

 

PS: Also shouldn't the medium B2B (P2) actually end on the 11.05 bar as it makes a higher high than the 11.00 bar?

Edited October 14, 2010 by zt379

[Spydertrader 10]

  Boux said:

so here I am, just trying to see.

 

You might start by asking yourself why some of your Point Three's aren't connected to a Right Trend Line.

 

Don't Point Three's create the RTL by using Point One?

 

- Spydertrader

[Boux 10]

  Spydertrader said:

You might start by asking yourself why some of your Point Three's aren't connected to a Right Trend Line.

 

Don't Point Three's create the RTL by using Point One?

 

- Spydertrader

 

I get the feeling that I am still missing something?

[zt379 10]

  Boux said:

I get the feeling that I am still missing something?

the suggestion might be that when we have a VE we (edit) have pushed the P2 of that container furthr out so will need to have a NEW P3 and there for a new RTL ?

Edited October 14, 2010 by zt379

[Spydertrader 10]

  Boux said:

I get the feeling that I am still missing something?

 

I encourage you to improve your annotation technique.

 

Note the differences between your annotations and mine (See Attached).

 

You cannot see that which the market provides if you create lazy annotations.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

[gucci 10]

  Spydertrader said:

I encourage you to improve your annotation technique.

 

Note the differences between your annotations and mine (See Attached).

 

You cannot see that which the market provides if you create lazy annotations.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

 

 

This is like surfing with a blindfold.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. I tried to do it myself.

[savarez 10]

  zt379 said:

"1. Why does the sequence for the thin lines (thing, goat, tape, whatever) end at 10:30 ?"

Does anyone have an answer to #1 ?

The thin lines do NOT end at 10:30. They continue, underneath the medium lines, which as shown, are incorrect

 

The medium 2R gaussian is wrong. Price must close outside the olive RTL before it can reach the p3 of the medium sequence. The olive RTL defines the container for the medium B2B. The thick B2B is actually medium.

[zt379 10]

  savarez said:

The thin lines do NOT end at 10:30. They continue, underneath the medium lines, which as shown, are incorrect

 

The medium 2R gaussian is wrong. Price must close outside the olive RTL before it can reach the p3 of the medium sequence. The olive RTL defines the container for the medium B2B. The thick B2B is actually medium.

Thx for the reply savarez.

apologies I see you mentioned this in your p# 2216

but to be frank, I'm non the wiser..

so what are we saying here?

1. the thin guassians are wrong because they don't end at 10:30?

2. the medium g's are wrong because it's P3 needs to be outside it's RTL (Olive)?

3. the Olive RTL and LTL is actually the container for the medium B2B g's and not medium B2B2R2B ?

4. although the Olive Ltl should start where the Blue P2 is at 11.20 because a B2B gets us to a P2?

5. the thick g's are wrong because they should be medium?

 

how are we to understand how/where/when to annotate thin g's ?

confused:

 

thx

Edited October 14, 2010 by zt379

[savarez 10]

  zt379 said:

Thx for the reply savarez.

apologies I see you mentioned this in your p# 2216

but to be frank, I'm non the wiser..

so what are we saying here?

1. the thin guassians are wrong because they don't end at 10:30?

2. the medium g's are wrong because it's P3 needs to be outside it's RTL (Olive)?

3. the Olive RTL and LTL is actually the container for the medium B2B g's and not medium B2B2R2B ?

4. although the Olive Ltl should start where the Blue P2 is at 11.20 because a B2B gets us to a P2?

5. the thick g's are wrong because they should be medium?

 

how are we to understand how/where/when to annotate thin g's ?

confused:

 

thx

1. No, the thin lines are correct. It's just that you can't see the thin lines that continue beyond 10:30 because they are hidden by the medium lines.

2. Correct.

3. Correct

4. At the close of the 10:30 bar we can draw the olive RTL. We can then clone it to give us the olive LTL. The LTL is positioned so that it contains all of the price action up to that point in time. This would mean that the LTL has to be positioned at the high of the 10:10 bar, where it is shown. This creates the container for our medium B2B which is being created by the thin b2b2r2b sequence, which extends with further cycles of 2r2b inside the olive RTL.

5. Correct. We cannot begin the medium 2R until price closes outside the olive RTL, and we cannot have a thick B2B until we complete the medium B2B2R2B.