The Price / Volume Relationship

[sambrown 10]

My chart for 10/7/2010.

Thanks for viewing my charts, pointing out mistakes and steering me to the right direction.

[Spydertrader 10]

My chart for 10/7/2010.

Thanks for viewing my charts, pointing out mistakes and steering me to the right direction.

 

Look at your chart at the beginning of your annotations. In a previous post, you indicated how to arrive at Point Two. Do your annotations reflect this same assertion? Review your Point Three Annotations. Do your Gaussians show how you answered my previous post?

 

Now go to the thin lines.

 

What 'thing' forms the various 'points' on the medium lines? How does one arrive at this 'thing' through Volume? Do your lines reflect this?

 

Sloppy annotation (irrespective of intent) serves no purpose in an environment of purposeful learning.

 

- Spydertrader

[sambrown 10]

Look at your chart at the beginning of your annotations. In a previous post, you indicated how to arrive at Point Two. Do your annotations reflect this same assertion? Review your Point Three Annotations. Do your Gaussians show how you answered my previous post?

Now go to the thin lines.

What 'thing' forms the various 'points' on the medium lines? How does one arrive at this 'thing' through Volume? Do your lines reflect this?

Sloppy annotation (irrespective of intent) serves no purpose in an environment of purposeful learning.

- Spydertrader

 

Spydertrader,

Thanks for your feedback.

I redrew the annotations and Gaussians lines the way I understood should be done from your questions. I redo only the first part so that if there is still mistakes, I have less chart info to figure out where the mistakes are located.

Please let me know if I am on the right track.

[Spydertrader 10]

Please let me know if I am on the right track.

 

How do you get to 'Point Two' of something that moves down?

 

How did YOU arrive at point Two?

 

Do you feel this is correct?

 

 

Now. The 'Points' of one container find themselves created by some 'thing' formed by a faster level container.

 

What is that thing?

 

Forget the chart for a moment.

 

Start at the 'fine' level.

 

Pull out some blank sheets of paper, and focus on drawing volume gaussians - without any charts around. Move from Point One to Point Two to Point Three and onto the completion of the order of events. Now, do the non-dominant container. Do the dominant container again.

 

What did you just build?

 

Three things built one larger thing.

 

Continue the process in a fractal fashion.

 

Go back to your charts and note where you need to polish.

 

HTH.

 

Spydertrader

[cjstrader5 10]

cnms2 thank you for the link and advise it will help me understand better. Spydertrader I was drawing the Gaussian after and not before the price reaction. I will study more than try another post to see if I am learning. Thanks to all

[sambrown 10]

Before going back to the chart, let me answer your questions.

How do you get to 'Point Two' of something that moves down?

How did YOU arrive at point Two?

Spydertrader

Point 2 is at the peak/highest volume of R2R.

 

Now. The 'Points' of one container find themselves created by some 'thing' formed by a faster level container.

What is that thing?

Points 1, 2 and 3 of a faster level container creates the slower level container.

For down move, faster level R2R2B2R is needed to create the slower level container.

[wind_ 11]

Your Medium level gaussians (I assume their are medium as I see no 'thick' level) do not accurately represent the market condition (from around 1:15 [on your chart] forward)

 

Thanks for your feedback, Spydertrader. Today the market invalidated my previous B2B traverse. It was a 2B traverse.

 

Attached is my view for today, Thursday 7 Oct 2010. Annotated 3 levels of containers and gaussians.

 

TIA for any feedback/comments.

[savarez 10]

Before going back to the chart, let me answer your questions.

Point 2 is at the peak/highest volume of R2R.

.

Incorrect. The second R of the R2R will not necessarily be greater volume than the first, so p2 will not always be at the highest volume of the R2R. P2 is at the highest point reached by price (assuming long) before price leaves the R2R tape.

[sambrown 10]

Forget the chart for a moment.

Start at the 'fine' level.

Pull out some blank sheets of paper, and focus on drawing volume gaussians - without any charts around. Move from Point One to Point Two to Point Three and onto the completion of the order of events. Now, do the non-dominant container. Do the dominant container again.

Here's my Gaussians drawing on the paper.

Please let me know if it's incorrect.

Thanks.

[savarez 10]

Here's my Gaussians drawing on the paper.

Please let me know if it's incorrect.

Thanks.

Incorrect. see attached

[sambrown 10]

Incorrect. see attached

Thank you for the drawing. Now I know my initial understanding of Gaussians was wrong

I will have to review other people's charts over the weekend to learn to draw my charts correctly.

[vienna 10]

Would it be considered a useful drill to erase most of the price portion of a bunch of charts from the past, leaving the first few bars at open and the last few bars at close, draw the gaussians and then try to fill in what price did

[Spydertrader 10]

Incorrect. see attached

 

So far, so good. Now, you'll need to apply the concept of 'nesting' onto these Gaussians. Once you do so, you'll view a more 'clean' set of lines.

 

- Spydertrader

[sambrown 10]

Taking one step at the time and trying to draw Gaussians to match with trend lines for 10/8/2010.

Thanks for your generous help.

[Spydertrader 10]

Taking one step at the time and trying to draw Gaussians to match with trend lines for 10/8/2010.

 

You might want to stay focused on yesterday's chart (first with the morning portion) before moving onto more complex examples.

 

Crawl. Walk. Run. Then, Fly.

 

- Spydertrader

[sambrown 10]

You might want to stay focused on yesterday's chart (first with the morning portion) before moving onto more complex examples.

Crawl. Walk. Run. Then, Fly.

- Spydertrader

Thanks for the advice.

That is what I've planned for my weekend homework a long with studying other people's charts.

[vienna 10]

my previous post seems to have vanished, so apologies if this appears twice.

In order to get the gaussian thing down pat, would it be a good drill to take a bunch of charts, erase the price portion except the beginning and end bars and then try to fill in what price did just from the volume pane... thanks

[nkhoi 10]

my previous post seems to have vanished, so apologies if this appears twice.

In order to get the gaussian thing down pat, would it be a good drill to take a bunch of charts, erase the price portion except the beginning and end bars and then try to fill in what price did just from the volume pane... thanks

go to refinement thread page #264 look for gaussian drill

[vienna 10]

thanks a lot, will do...

[sambrown 10]

Thanks for all your advices.

Here's my redraw of the Thursday 10/7/2010 chart.

There are two areas with brown boxes on the volume pane which I am not sure drawn correctly.

Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

[Spydertrader 10]

Here's my redraw of the Thursday 10/7/2010 chart.

 

Let's stay focused on that down container (for the time being) in an effort to make absolutely certain we have the ability to accurately, and consistantly, annotate our Gaussians the exact same way on all fractals.

 

Look away from the charts (for a moment) and pull out some blank paper. Write down what you know with respect to the order of events.

 

If your Gaussians show you R2R, where are you with respect to the order of events?

 

If your Gaussians show you R2R 2B, where are you with respect to the order of events?

 

If your Gaussians show you R2R 2B 2R, where are you with respect to the order of events (and what then do you want to see to tell you this order of events has ended)?

 

Since we know all markets exist on a fractal basis, the same exact paradigm for where one sits currently (with respect to the right side of the market) and what must come next (with respect to the order of events) develops on each and every line thickness annotated on our chart. In other words, that which we do for 'tapes' we must also do for 'traverses' and 'channels.'

 

What else do we know? Our Order of Events marks the minimum requirement needed to complete a given fractal. While no maximum exists, each component of the order of events must develop in the exact same fashion as the minimum level required. In other words (using our example of the down container), a decelerating medium level (thickness) black Gaussian Line means something - and it always means the exact same thing - irrespective of the number of times it appears on a chart.

 

Now, look at you down container anotations ...

 

1. What does a decelerating medium level (thickness) black Gaussian Line mean in a Down Container?

 

2. Do your annotations reflect the meaning of a decelerating medium level (thickness) black Gaussian Line?

 

Since we know the market often provides more than the minimum required for a given level container, something must indicate to the trader that the market plans to go beyond the minimum.

 

1. What are these events?

 

2. What must come next when they develop?

 

Lastly, once we have the above all sorted out, we can then work to 'clean' up our nesting of the various fractals within each other. To do this, we need to completely understand where the various fractals come together, and where they split apart.

 

Begin with the slowest fractal (channel) and move faster.

 

Using Volume only for the following questions ....

 

1. How does one arrive at Point Two of a Channel?

 

2. How does one arrive at Point Two of a Traverse?

 

3. How does one arrive at Point Two of a Tape?

 

Moving between 'points' on a given fractal results from a completed Order of Events of a faster fractal. Therefore, each fractal nests within another. Take a moment and draw (on paper) a channel Point Two (again using Gaussians [Volume] only). Then annotate the faster fractal which must complete in order to arive at the channel Point Two. Do the same for the Traverse and Tape - without going beyond a Channel Point Two.

 

Note where all three fractals come together and where all three fractals diverge.

 

Do not move beyond annotating another chart until you can see hwere you placed errors within the down container currently under discussion.

 

Do not think for one moment you are alone in this journey. No doubt, a number of newer folks (and even a number of folks who have studied this for quite some time) have the same problem you currently experience.

 

Anyone interested should feel welcome to contribute to this discussion.

 

Again, the goal here is to develop both accuracy and precision with respect to annotations.

 

I hope you find the above information helpful.

 

- Spydertrader

[wind_ 11]

Hi Spydertrader,

 

Please see attached snip from Thursday 7 Oct 2010. I have a question regarding matching gaussian to trend line. Is it possible that 2R B2B gaussian happened within one bar? I don't see any other increasing black volume to annotate B2B gaussian for that green up traverse.

 

Thanks.

[gucci 10]

This chart from Spyder, may be helpful to understand the fractal nature of Gaussians.

 

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2205173

 

Also see the discussion for the context : pages 1630-1636.

 

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113310&perpage=6&highlight=faster%20and%20fractal&pagenumber=1636

 

Spyder, I guess you would allow.

[sambrown 10]

Spydertrader,

Thank you for your patience and taking your time explaining to me how to recognize my errors. Either my understanding of the nesting of different levels of Gaussians is incorrect OR my translation of this understanding to the actual drawing is wrong.

So let me make sure my understanding of the nesting is correct by answering your questions without looking at any chart first.

If your Gaussians show you R2R, where are you with respect to the order of events?

I have a new order of events and point 1 and 2 have been developed for this new sequence.

If your Gaussians show you R2R 2B, where are you with respect to the order of events?

This is a retrace from point2 to point3 of the new sequence.

If your Gaussians show you R2R 2B 2R, where are you with respect to the order of events (and what then do you want to see to tell you this order of events has ended)?

I have point 3 of the new sequence and I need a 2B 2B (decreasing black and then increasing black) to know this sequence has been ended. If I see 2B2R instead, the market is signaling this sequence will continue.

What else do we know? Our Order of Events marks the minimum requirement needed to complete a given fractal. While no maximum exists, each component of the order of events must develop in the exact same fashion as the minimum level required.

Please correct me if I misunderstood this statement.

For minimum, I need B2B2R2B to complete a sequence. But this sequence can continue with 2R2B2R2B...?

Begin with the slowest fractal (channel) and move faster.

If I zoom out and look at the bigger picture, I see this.

I will zoom into each line if this is correct.

[sambrown 10]

This chart from Spyder, may be helpful to understand the fractal nature of Gaussians.

 

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2205173

 

Also see the discussion for the context : pages 1630-1636.

 

Forums - Iterative Refinement

 

Spyder, I guess you would allow.

 

Gucci,

Thanks for the links.

How can you pick out a particular discussion from such a large thread? You must have some kind of indexing into that thread?