The Price / Volume Relationship

[cnms2 10]

...

Not sure if this is what you're asking (?). This is what I meant: the left hand light blue sub-container is the pt1 to pt2 move of the green container, and it's made of three sub-sub-containers (blue, magenta, blue).

[trader1109 10]

Hey Tiki,

Here is what I think of the first picture.

[frenchfry 10]

Hey Tiki,

Here is what I think of the first picture.[ATTACH]18654[/ATTACH]

 

Trader1109, do you mind telling a little bit more about what your thought process is behind your dashed gaussian lines? There are two black volume bars but with those you are able to draw four dashed gaussian lines. How did you do this?

 

Thanks.

[trader1109 10]

Trader1109, do you mind telling a little bit more about what your thought process is behind your dashed gaussian lines? There are two black volume bars but with those you are able to draw four dashed gaussian lines. How did you do this?

 

Thanks.

 

Hi frenchfry, This may be wrong but I think if we see a ve then we must have had a point 3 prior to that and if we had a point 3 then we must have had a point 2 and so on. All of it happened in 2 bars. The dashed blue lines show what I think will happen next as long as price stays above the first bar of the blue dashed presumed channel. I don't know for certain which way price will exit the lateral.

[TIKITRADER 10]

If anyone can use it blank ES 5 minute chart with No Gap for today

 

I have just replaced the chart that was originally attached here in the past half hour.. This chart attached is fine. Apologize for inconvenience.

Edited February 2, 2010 by TIKITRADER
replaced chart with data error

[TIKITRADER 10]

Monthly DJI and ES with a close for the month of January.

[TIKITRADER 10]

ES blank chart no-gap.

 

Not much of a difference here but if it helps anyone.

[TheDon 10]

Most of this done real time, but some cleanup after the close.

 

I'm including 1-2-3 annotations to help me keep my place.

[Spydertrader 10]

Most of this done real time, but some cleanup after the close.

 

I'm including 1-2-3 annotations to help me keep my place.

 

Nice plan to annotate the Points 1, 2 and 3.

 

See attached.

 

- Spydertrader

[gucci 10]

Spyder, when trading with complete certainty does one still make use of wash trades?

[Spydertrader 10]

Spyder, when trading with complete certainty does one still make use of wash trades?

 

Sure.

 

Errors happen from time to time - even to the most experienced in any field.

 

For me, a wash trade results out of two possible scenarios. The first scenario involves an error created by myself, while the second develops as a result of market geometry.

 

In the first example, I (for any number of reasons) experience a momentary break in concentration (a family member steps into my office, my phone rings in the middle of analysis, someone sends me an IM [email, text or posts a question to a web site] or I simply have grown impatient with a long trending day). As a result of my own lack of focus, I annotate a chart incorrectly using an improper line weight. A bar or two later, my brain begins to think, "Hey Wait a minute here. This [the market] isn't acting like it should. Something must be wrong." Such thoughts cause me to 're-check' my chart anotations in very rapid fashion. Normally, I locate my error in plenty of time to correct (witha reversal trade) my annotation error placing me back on the right side of the market (for my trading fractal) - even profiting a little bit extra than I had anticipated. Sometimes, too much time has passed (or the market has moved too swiftly) for me to change direction without experiencing a small loss (1 to 3 tics). Although not a regular occurance, errors do happen (I still make them now and then), but most of the time, one's 'experience' provides the warning bells necessary to correct the incorrect annotation without taking a big hit.

 

The second area where an experienced individual would see a wash trade (or even a small loss) results out of how a particular trend might develop. See attached. Should a trader find themselves in a High Pace environment with a strong trend (in either direction), noticing a completion of The Order of Events, a trader might choose to reverse in an effort to remain on their trading fractal throughout the day. When this Non-Dominant Trend coincides with a 'Drop Off' in Pace (often seen during the middle of a market day), the Non-dominant trend can develop with very little (sometimes zero) slope. If the trader executed a Reversal Trade Short at an IBGS Type Bar, and after completing The Order of Events required of the Non-Dominant Trend one executed a Reversal trade Long at another IBGS Type Bar, the Geometry of the market itself (where the respective bars closed relative to one another) might create a wash trade (or sometimes, a small (1 to 3 tic) loss. When I experience such a market environment, I don't even concern myself with it. After all, had I chosen to use a Medium Tool (the YM) during my trading day, I would have entered the market (on both ends of the Non-Dominant Trend) prior to any 'overlap' in Price. Since the YM isn't part of our trading arsenal (at this time), I shrug the whole deal off.

 

Considering the trader in question (you, me - anybody) would have already banked that nice run upwards (before attempting to trade the Non-Dominant Trend) what ya' gonna' do? Cry over a three tic loss after a 15 point profit? I don't think so. :haha:

 

Knowing one always has the ability to wash out of any trade allows the trader to not focus on things beyond his / her control. We can no more control the slope of the trend than we can the weather. And while errors do happen (from time to time) - even to those of us with the most experience with The Price / Volume relationship (including myself), developing the ability to quickly recognize and repair improper, incorrect or erroneous annotations should be your goal - vs striving for 100% error free annotation.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

Edited February 3, 2010 by Spydertrader
fixed spelling errors and added attachment

[sambrown 10]

Another lateral at 11:10AM today.

[romanus 10]

 

For me, a wash trade results out of two possible scenarios. The first scenario involves an error created by myself...

 

Thank you for this useful post.

 

In the attached, if one were to arrive at the mistaken conclusion that the last OB in the attached (decr red volume, 1515 eob, 1/28/10) was a completion of sequence and signal for change due to erroneous annotations --- would there be any possible way (perhaps using finer tools) to wash out with minimum damage? And if there's a way, any guidance on the subject would be greatly appreciated. The questions is obviously about "specific" context in the attached. Thank you.

[TIKITRADER 10]

Another lateral at 11:10AM today.

 

 

another that fits the drill at 13:10.

[romanus 10]

another that fits the drill at 13:10.

... and 13:25 inside of the one that you pointed out.

[TIKITRADER 10]

... and 13:25 inside of the one that you pointed out.

 

endless supply of them for the spyder's drill lol. . . :thumbs up:

[Spydertrader 10]

Thank you for this useful post.

 

In the attached, if one were to arrive at the mistaken conclusion that the last OB in the attached (decr red volume, 1515 eob, 1/28/10) was a completion of sequence and signal for change due to erroneous annotations --- would there be any possible way (perhaps using finer tools) to wash out with minimum damage?

 

Thank-you for providing a perfect example.

 

The following answer assumes Action only at Bar close. As such, one has no need to check the YM, STR-SQU, DOm or Tic Charts. However, at minimum one should see a warning flag on the STR-SQU (if not a completed cycle down on the YM). Since we don't have those tools at our disposal, we will simply look at the ES chart (Coarse Level Tool only) to locate our answer.

 

If one has determined the OB represented a signal for change, then one knows what must come next with respect to the order of events. On the very next bar, the market provided that which you did not anticipate (a pennant? WTF is this?).

 

Whoops! The annotations must contain a signifciant error. Once located, the answers is easy, the second 'A' (of M-A-D-A) indicated hold , but instead, the trader reversed.

 

Corrective action One (if unable to locate the source of the annotation error [why M-A-D-A resulted in a hold) - sideline.

 

Corrective Action Two (if by locating the annotation error the trader fully understands why M-A-D-A indicated hold - reverse back to the right side of the market (for your trading fractal).

 

As one gains additional experience, one will develop the confidence to reverse back to the right side, simply because "what must come next" - didn't, while still searching for the erroneous annotation.

 

Keep in mind (as the FBP continues to form) - and you have a full five minutes here - your brain is going to say, 'Wait a minute. If this bar finishes as a FBP on decreasing B, where the hell is my increasing R?" By then, you'll already be looking for that errant annotation.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

Edited February 3, 2010 by Spydertrader
Corrected Spelling Errors

[become 10]

Thank-you for providing a perfect example.

 

The following answer assumes Action only at Bar close. As such, one has no need to check the YM, STR-SQU, DOm or Tic Charts. However, at minimum one should see a warning flag on the STR-SQU (if not a completed cycle down on the YM). Since we don't have those tools at our disposal, we will simply look at the ES chart (Coarse Level Tool only) to locate our answer.

 

If one has determined the OB represented a signal for change, then one knows what must come next with respect to the order of events. On the very next bar, the market provided that which you did not anticipate (a pennant? WTF is this?).

 

Whoops! The annotations must contain a signifciant error. Once located, the answers is easy, the second 'A' (of M-A-D-A) indicated hold , but instead, the trader reversed.

 

Corrective action One (if unable to locate the source of the annotation error [why M-A-D-A resulted in a hold) - sideline.

 

Corrective Action Two (if by locating the annotation error the trader fully understands why M-A-D-A indicated hold - reverse back to the right side of the market (for your trading fractal).

 

As one gains additional experience, one will develop the confidence to reverse back to the right side, simply because "what must come next" - didn't, while still searching for the erroneous annotation.

 

Keep in mind (as the FBP continues to form) - and you have a full five minutes here - your brain is going to say, 'Wait a minute. If this bar finishes as a FBP on decreasing B, where the hell is my increasing R?" By then, you'll already be looking for that errant annotation.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Spydertrader,

 

First, thanks for your renewed involvement in the thread.

 

In that particular case I wouldn't have reversed short, but in others I would, and have. Are you saying that WMCN, MCN on the very next bar? Isn't it possible that the next bar is subfractal, and therefore holding short is appropriate?

 

- become

[Spydertrader 10]

Spydertrader,

Are you saying that WMCN, MCN on the very next bar? Isn't it possible that the next bar is subfractal, and therefore holding short is appropriate?

 

As per the instructions provided by romanus, my comments referred only to the specific context provided in the chart he posted.

 

The question is obviously about "specific" context in the attached. Thank you.

 

However, with respect to your specific question, in the example provided by romanus, such a thing is simply not possible.

 

- Spydertrader

[dkm 10]

In that particular case I wouldn't have reversed short, but in others I would, and have. Are you saying that WMCN, MCN on the very next bar? Isn't it possible that the next bar is subfractal, and therefore holding short is appropriate?

- become

re 28 Jan 2010 15:15 outside bar

Perhaps this is how it should be annotated, so 15:15 and 15:20 are the 2r of a b2b2r2b olive that forms the 2B of blue. Difficult to know in real time if one doesn't know that a faster sequence is in play. An explanation of how to know would be really useful.

[FilterTip 10]

re 28 Jan 2010 15:15 outside bar

Perhaps this is how it should be annotated, so 15:15 and 15:20 are the 2r of a b2b2r2b olive that forms the 2B of blue. Difficult to know in real time if one doesn't know that a faster sequence is in play. An explanation of how to know would be really useful.

 

Why can't the 2r be here..?

[romanus 10]

If somebody could post blank chart for today that doesn't come from zen-fire data feed, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

[TIKITRADER 10]

If somebody could post blank chart for today that doesn't come from zen-fire data feed, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

 

 

here is a blank chart and { edit:} I am also attaching a no gap chart that is blank

added another no gap expanded today data more

Edited February 4, 2010 by TIKITRADER
added a no gap chart to post #2 added another no - gap

[TIKITRADER 10]

Attached find the complete days to the laterals I posted last weekend.

 

Maybe a weekend review can take place.

 

These laterals were selected as they fit the drill Spyder has assembled.

The laterals were neat because each one conformed to the drill, yet the context was very different. The outcome may be surprising.

 

 

They took place on . . .

 

Lateral #1 - January 6 2010 14:40

 

Lateral #2 - January 7 2020 14:40

 

They happen to form on the exact time on 2 dates in a row. Each lateral itself in context looking different from the other.

Have fun and post what you were thinking on the charts.

Thanks to Spyder for the drills that have brought about some good discussion.

 

I have also attached a chart with my annotations for the first lateral.

[gucci 10]

Spyder, you mentioned some time ago, that points 2 and 3 form in a very specific way. Would you elaborate on what exactly you had in mind? My best guess is that it wasn't their respective location on the chart (albeit this is important as well) you were insinuating at, but differences in the Gaussian and Price Bar Formations instead. If this is the case what is it that is noteworthy at those points? TIA.

Edited February 5, 2010 by gucci
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