The Price / Volume Relationship

[MKTr 10]

My work today - 30 Nov 2009. When the pace slowed the tapes became more subtle. I second guessed myself a bunch and started to lose my focus. I did not give this chart a post flight scrub so it may have a few wierd things in it. Thank you Tams for the apps. Thanks to several of you regarding gaps.

 

 

MK

[clmacdougall 11]

In my view removing price gaps is fundamentally unsound and indefensible. The method we use is based on deduction: our fundamental assumption is that markets come into being from their rules and that from those rules we can build a functional system. Part of those rules are the limited trading hours. This presents us with a problem since the p/v sequences we use to build up a picture of the market are discontinued at some point.

 

The removal of price gaps adresses the problem inductively since it does not follow from the market's operating rules. It attempts to present continuity in our sequences through the tinkering with price. The universal problem of induction applies here so that even if it has worked in the past there is no sound reason to assume that it will work in the future.

 

In my view there is no way to address this problem deductively. We cannot soundly carry over yesterday's sequences and we will simply have to wait until we see new sequence being formed. We're just forced to accept that markets do not follow ideal theory and do not contain perfect nested fractals.

 

Although I've only been studying this methodology/way of looking at the markets, for a short time, this was my concern as well. I enjoy the new ways I'm being taught to look at volume but am concerned with what seems to be a disconnect from price reality at the same time.

Can you imagine considering that something has FTT (failed to traverse), when in reality it hasn't at all. It just appears that way because of the removal of the night session from the picture along with the joining of the day sessions open to the previous days session close. That just doesn't feel right.

In the end the method seems concerned with price movement only if supported by the right amount of volume, and even worse, simply at the right time! But what if that volume begins pouring in at 8:15 cst and doesn't wait until 8:30 cst? Is price movement counted then? Perhaps CVB (constant volume bars) might be helpful for this methodology/understanding of the market. Or hows about this for an idea, simply mash the night sessions complete action together as a single bar if that helps, at least the reality/continuity of price will in someway be represented. At any rate it feels like Spydertrader is building something great, but perhaps it's still under construction

Please let me know how you deal with this.

[trader1109 10]

 

Maybe wrong but this is what I am anticipating.

[cnms2 10]

Although I've only been studying this methodology/way of looking at the markets, for a short time, ...

It's understandable that you might have theoretical concerns and ideas how to solve them. It is also conceivable that this method can be improved further, even further than its expert level. My advice is to not waste your time with either of them. Study carefully all of Spydertrader's posts in this thread; start to apply what you understand; continue re-reading the same posts, open to learn more; correct your misunderstandings; practice; ... repeat this loop, gradually improving, until you get it. Ask pertinent questions in this thread, but take any advice with a grain of salt: you may not fully understand that advice, or it may come from a person who doesn't know that he's giving bad advice. Without any fixes or improvements, this method should allow you to become constantly profitable, and compounding will take care of making you wealthy. Good luck!

[clmacdougall 11]

It's understandable that you might have theoretical concerns and ideas how to solve them. It is also conceivable that this method can be improved further, even further than its expert level. My advice is to not waste your time with either of them. Study carefully all of Spydertrader's posts in this thread; start to apply what you understand; continue re-reading the same posts, open to learn more; correct your misunderstandings; practice; ... repeat this loop, gradually improving, until you get it. Ask pertinent questions in this thread, but take any advice with a grain of salt: you may not fully understand that advice, or it may come from a person who doesn't know that he's giving bad advice. Without any fixes or improvements, this method should allow you to become constantly profitable, and compounding will take care of making you wealthy. Good luck!

Thank you for the advice, I'm going to take it! I hope you don't mind lots of questions because I need help to understand how to apply even the initial parts of Spydertraders writings, but I'm going to give it a try. Thanks again.

[Gregor_S 10]

My chart for yesterday.

[clmacdougall 11]

Has anyone found a way to remove the price gap from an esignal chart. I spoke to them and they said it was not possible.

[Spydertrader 10]

I have a conference call tomorrow with Glen and Pete (Trade Navigator CEO and VP everyone met in Las Vegas) to discuss the following enhancements to the TN Software. IF anyone has additional suggestions for enhancements, feel free to send me a note via PM.

 

Good Trading to you all.

 

- Spydertrader

 

*************************

 

1. Daily gap closes, an option on the chart that if you check it closes the daily gap for the chart only

 

2. Trend Lines

A. Add a thickness(Weight) option ,10 levels of thickness

B. Add a style option, solid line, dashed small , dashed large,

dash-dot

C. Option to freeze the slope: check box

D. Change Right Mouse popup menu:

1. add +/- item for the thickness(weight)

2. add +/- item for the style

3. add slope freeze option on/off

4. add +/- to extend right side of the line (but if the slope is locked we may not need it)

E. add change color - pops up a color palette

F. Add duplicate button to Line Edit Window

 

3. Import file to draw objects: trend lines to start

 

4. Automated Channel Tool (with Automated Volatility Expansion)

[TIKITRADER 10]

Monthly DJI bar chart ending Nov 2009 and beginning Dec 1

 

future gauss for sequential order only does not represent the timeline of events

[rightbyleft 10]

anyone know how Accumulation/distribution is defined?

tia

[cnms2 10]

anyone know how accumulation/distribution is defined?

Tia

12345678901234567890

[cnms2 10]

12345678901234567890

[clmacdougall 11]

A question. Even though this post is well on it's way and none but skilled followers are seemingly still writing, could you please take some time out for a question. A question from a beginner.

"Volume Leads Price," that seems to be the key phrase for understanding this thread. I've read and re-read this thread, having even read Mr. Hersheys 2006 instructional manual and have also looked back in other writings by Spydertrader and others who seem well versed in this understanding of the market.

Help me with my first step. Is the creation of a tape nothing more than the breaking and reversal of trend at least 3 times while staying within a volume sequence aka "Gaussian"? Or is there a need to use the 10 tape scenarios and Laterals for some special reason? Instead of simply ignoring them and drawing trendlines until they are broken and reversed?

[cnms2 10]

... I've read and re-read this thread, having even read Mr. Hersheys 2006 instructional manual and have also looked back in other writings by Spydertrader and others who seem well versed in this understanding of the market.

... Is ...? Or is there a need ...? ... simply ignoring ...?

As I wrote, my advice is to follow this method as described by Spydertrader in this thread, without adding or ignoring anything, iteratively refining your understanding.

[trader1109 10]

 

I saw the beginning of the day. I lost my way during lunch. Had to redo my chart a few times today. This is the final result.

[rs5 10]

Wednesday 2 December 2009

[FJK 10]

Nice chart

 

I see you learned something in Vegas

 

WMCN?

 

Wednesday 2 December 2009

[Boux 10]

Any insight into why 15:40 and 45 (in yellow) are not change????

[cnms2 10]

Any insight into why 15:40 and 45 (in yellow) are not change????

What kind of question is that? Why would they be change?

[Boux 10]

Peaking volume and then JW

[rs5 10]

Thursday 3 December 2009

[PointOne 10]

Any insight into why 15:40 and 45 (in yellow) are not change????

 

Put in another channel from your blue P3 to envelope the traverse in question. Note each VE of this channel. By definition, a traverse from P3 will be the final traverse and this applies to the final traverse too.

[rs5 10]

Nice chart

 

I see you learned something in Vegas

 

WMCN?

 

Thank you I was looking for that r2r sequence next but did not know it was going to take all day.....

[cnms2 10]

Peaking volume and then JW

That was extreme volume and "pace acceleration"; in other words volume was peaking but that was not "peak volume". Look at bar's volatility. Not sure I've seen this terminology used by Spydertrader in this thread (?). The JW ... I see increasing red volume on my chart, with a slight bar volatility decrease (so, on yours, decreasing volume and volatility), 50% overlap, close at the low of the bar ... Again, things not discussed in this thread, but even so, no signal of change on any viewable fractal for those two bars. Agreed?

[FJK 10]

Peaking volume and then JW

 

 

Your definition of Peak Volume is wrong. None of the bars in question were Peak Volume.