The Price / Volume Relationship

[Monkman 10]

A trader can easily learn to differentiate the various tapes, traverses and channels formed by the market, as well as the sequences of Price and Volume which landmark these specific events, by starting with a known entity - one which exhibits certainty as defined by the market itself.

- Spydertrader

 

What is a known entity? Lost you at that point. Perhaps you are referring to B2B, which has a certain price result?

[nkhoi 10]

' a known entity'

looking at daily chart esp. the 7/13, we know for sure that it was the starting of an up channel

zoom in

[cnms2 10]

... In this time frame I do not see what you are referring to at all.

 

Check Spydertrader's post #8

[Spydertrader 10]

For each day, do we have to slide the close of the last bar of a certain day to meet the open of the first bar of the following day in the time frame you mention?

 

See post by cnms2 above ..

 

Check Spydertrader's post #8

 

- Spydertrader

[Spydertrader 10]

we know for sure that it was the starting of an up channel

 

Yes, we certainly do. We also know the date and time said up channel ended as well.

 

- Spydertrader

[rs5 10]

Friday 14 August 2009

[NYCMB 10]

Hi Spydertrader,

 

Two questions waiting for your enlightenment:

 

1) Can a Lateral Formation be terminated by an IBGS on Increasing Volume, but Close is only one tick higher than Open? Please see bar 32 in the attached chart.

 

2) Bar 22 is OB, Bar 23 is SYM, Bar 24 breaking the bottom boundary of SYM on Increasing Red Volume and Bar 25

is Doji which has Increasing Red Volume and close is same as Bar 24. Is Bar 25 eligible to finish orange trendline

and make orange trendline a Traverse? TIA

[Spydertrader 10]

1) Can a Lateral Formation be terminated by an IBGS on Increasing Volume, but Close is only one tick higher than Open? Please see bar 32 in the attached chart.

 

We describe a specific Price Bar as an 'I.B.G.S' (Intra-Bar Gaussian Shift) if said Price Bar takes on certain characterisitics (a 'lower low' than the previous Price Bar with the current Price Bar having a close above the current bar open or a 'higher high' than the previous Price Bar with the current Price Bar having a close below the current bar open). No need to focus on "how many tics" seperate the open from the close. At one time, we described the the "one tic IBGS" as an 'If1' bar (back when the discussions focused on Intra-Bar Trading). Since a beginning trader executes all actions at the end of a bar, such distinctions for "how many tics seperate the open from the close" of a particular type of I.B.G.S. Bar, no longer apply.

 

As to whether or not an I.B.G.S. on increasing Volume does or does not terminate a lateral, you should annotate your chart both ways. One where the lateral ends, and the other, where it does not end, but continues onward. In each case, the market must then provide the next set of sequences. Does it?

 

In such a fashion can everyone arrive at the correct answer as provided by the market itself.

 

2) Bar 22 is OB, Bar 23 is SYM, Bar 24 breaking the bottom boundary of SYM on Increasing Red Volume and Bar 25

is Doji which has Increasing Red Volume and close is same as Bar 24. Is Bar 25 eligible to finish orange trendline

and make orange trendline a Traverse?

 

If you believe the orange line represents a traverse, what must the market provide next? Did the market provide it? If you believe the orange line represents a tape, what must the market provide next? Did the market provide it?

 

Once you can see the next thing in the sequence, then you can learn to know in advance by applying your answer onto all other areas of a chart.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

[NYCMB 10]

If you believe the orange line represents a traverse, what must the market provide next? Did the market provide it? If you believe the orange line represents a tape, what must the market provide next? Did the market provide it?

 

Once you can see the next thing in the sequence, then you can learn to know in advance by applying your answer onto all other areas of a chart.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Thank you for your detailed explanation on IBGS.

 

I have reviewed your old posts and annotated charts which were posted before you started this thread on 07/05/2009. However, my ability of understanding JHM prevents me from choosing the right posts and charts to apply on the current case.

 

Can Bar 24 which breaks a Formation (in this specific case, a SYM Formation; and in general, all types of Pennant Formation) become point 3 and termination of orange trendline (assumed Traverse) without confirmation from the following bar (including neutral bars like Spike and Doji) 0n Increasing Volume? TIA

[Spydertrader 10]

I have reviewed your old posts and annotated charts which were posted before you started this thread on 07/05/2009. However, my ability of understanding JHM prevents me from choosing the right posts and charts to apply on the current case.

 

As I indicated in this post, you need not refer back to other posts, threads or discussions. To that point, several people participate in this thread without ever having read anything posted on another web site. While their annotations have not been without error, they have improved significantly, with resepct to the accuracy of their trend lines and Gaussians, in a very short period of time. In addition, these same individuals have shown the ability to grasp concepts presented in this thread quite rapidly.

 

Therefore, one might conclude that through the process of differentiation, a trader can learn all the necessary information as provided by the market.

 

Can Bar 24 which breaks a Formation (in this specific case, a SYM Formation; and in general, all types of Pennant Formation) become point 3 and termination of orange trendline (assumed Traverse) without confirmation from the following bar (including neutral bars like Spike and Doji) 0n Increasing Volume?

 

Romanus and PointOne held a very productive discussion not too long ago. Within that exchange, one can learn what sequence of events must develop at each 'Point' (1, 2 or 3). In other words, something must happen on one fractal in order to form the 'Point' (1, 2, or 3) of the next slower fractal above it.

 

Armed with this knowledge, a trader should then be able to know the answer to your question. Did such a thing develop at the point in time (Bar 24) indicated? If not, then you know the answer to your question. If what the market requires did develop, then you also have an answer to your question.

 

What is more, you can flat out take a random guess at the answer to your question. Based on that 'flat out random guess', the market needs to provide the next domino in the sequence. Did the market do so? If the market failed to provide the next domino required of the sequences, then your 'flat out random as hell guess' cannot possibly be correct.

 

If a trader finds themself arriving at an incorrect answer, then take another guess, and test again the validity of the new answer. Once one locates the correct answer, then all that remains is learning to correctly apply that answer to the same scenario moving forward.

 

For your specific question, you have already provided two possible answers. Allow me to add a possible third answer. One, the other or neither can be correct. Both (of your possible answers) cannot be correct.

 

Certainly, you know what to expect next if the market says you have a Traverse, a tape or a channel annotated on your chart. Did what must come next develop (for each) or did it not?

 

- Spydertrader

[NYCMB 10]

For your specific question, you have already provided two possible answers. Allow me to add a possible third answer. One, the other or neither can be correct. Both (of your possible answers) cannot be correct.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Thank you for your valuable advise. I did notice the discussion between romanus/PointOne which started on 07/18/2009; and I made a real file by typing the several pages of text and printed out charts for studying and reference.

 

You do like 1, 2 and 3. The #3 answer which told me that my previous assumption was wrong helps me a lot. Would you check my newly debriefed chart and let me know if my view was correct for the day? TIA

[Ezzy 10]

If you believe the orange line represents a traverse, what must the market provide next? Did the market provide it? If you believe the orange line represents a tape, what must the market provide next? Did the market provide it?

 

Once you can see the next thing in the sequence, then you can learn to know in advance by applying your answer onto all other areas of a chart.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Thank you for your detailed explanation on IBGS.

 

I have reviewed your old posts and annotated charts which were posted before you started this thread on 07/05/2009. However, my ability of understanding JHM prevents me from choosing the right posts and charts to apply on the current case.

 

Can Bar 24 which breaks a Formation (in this specific case, a SYM Formation; and in general, all types of Pennant Formation) become point 3 and termination of orange trendline (assumed Traverse) without confirmation from the following bar (including neutral bars like Spike and Doji) 0n Increasing Volume? TIA

A slightly different way of looking at it, if you had a traverse point 3, then you have to have had a 2 to 3 tape or lateral. Where would that tape start and end.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Ezzy

[cnms2 10]

... my newly debriefed chart and let me know if my view was correct for the day? TIA

Allow me to suggest you re-annotate your chart with all the tapes, traverses and channels including their 1, 2, 3s and the three levels of gaussians, after reviewing Spydertrader's posts #4 and #224 including their attachments. As a bonus, you'll have ready your pre-flight check for Monday

It is irrelevant if your current answer is correct when you don't clearly know how you reached it, and why it is so.

PS: I'm not trying to be enigmatic or evasive.

[zak 10]

First day of Channel Drill: 7/13

 

- only one tape from P1 to P2 of 1st traverse

[NYCMB 10]

First day of Channel Drill: 7/13

 

- only one tape from P1 to P2 of 1st traverse

 

Hi zak,

 

Could you share your thoughts regarding bar 79 as point 2 of the first up Traverse?

 

1) In real time- How did you decide you had a point 2?

 

2) EOD - How did you decide you had a point 2?

 

TIA

[nkhoi 10]

Yes, we certainly do. We also know the date and time said up channel ended as well.

 

- Spydertrader

8/5 was the ended date because it was an outside bar and it closed outside the small channel.

[Tams 20]

I have posted an EasyLanguage code for Lateral Formation here:

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f46/lateral-formation-6581.html

 

 

[zak 10]

Hi zak,

 

Could you share your thoughts regarding bar 79 as point 2 of the first up Traverse?

 

1) In real time- How did you decide you had a point 2?

 

2) EOD - How did you decide you had a point 2?

 

TIA

 

Prior to bar 79, I do not see a medium non-dom Gaussian half R\ that tells me there must have been the medium B2B just before it. So, I read a long skinny b2b(2r2b)*5 sequence forming the medium B2B.

Bar 79 is the highest volume, the peak of the full Gaussian, confirmed by next day's double top on lower volume and a skinny r2r(2b2r) forming the missing medium R\.

 

Insisting on a LTL that has this P2, projects the RTL far (?) into the future, depending on a soon (?) to be developed P3 that corresponds. There is only one geometrically possible point (7/17 bar 73).

 

Based on volume (and geometry too), I get CH 2 before this geometric traverse P3 (I find this odd; 7/16 bar 76).

If it is a tenet of the market that a P2 must exist after P3 of the faster fractal which builds this point, than I do have TR P3 on 7/16 bar 50, TR P2 being on 7/13 bar 28.

[TIKITRADER 10]

8/5 was the ended date because it was an outside bar and it closed outside the small channel.

 

 

My original question was

Is the first set of dates Spyder mentioned

( Beginning with 10:10 AM on 7-13-2009, and continuing through until 15:30 PM on 8-5-2009 the market has provided just such an event. In addition, beginning with the very same 15:30 PM Bar on 8-5-2009, move forward until 13:30 PM on 8-11-2009 in order to see the exact same event, but in the opposite direction. )

 

the equivalent to the second set of dates Spyder mentioned ?

 

I still not have received an answer on this question although cnms2 directed me towards no gaps.

That part is understood, thanks cnms2.

I also understand the beginning date of the sequences on 7 / 13.

 

I do not see the dates being completely equal in sequences.

This is not directed NKhoi, he has posted good charts, just a question as to why these dates are equal in completes sequences.

Unless it is nothing more than both timeframes, no matter what layers of fractals took place, have both had a Dom- non dom - Dom movement.

 

image of DJI attached. this is up to date, as to when the original dates were referred to, there was even less daily bars to reference.

Edited August 17, 2009 by TIKITRADER
imgae

[sscott 10]

My work so far today, any comments would be appreciated.

[sscott 10]

Updated today chart.

[rs5 10]

Monday 17 August 2009

[NYCMB 10]

Hi Spydertrader,

 

I have questions regarding 07/13/2009 chart.

 

Bar 4 BO the Lateral on decreasing volume, bar 7 is increasing red volume, but, this bar is one bar out of a formation (SYM). Dominant down sequence does not semm finished here.

Bar 8 is Spike and closes inside the previous bar. I thought retrace was coming.

 

Do you think bar 10 (crosing trendline A on significant increasing volume) or bar 18 (crosing trendline B on even more significant increasing volume) tell traders that market sentiment had changed? Or, you found more appropriate signal of change other than what I stated? TIA

 

Hope zak wouldn't mind that I use part of his/har posted chart.

[NYCMB 10]

My work so far today, any comments would be appreciated.

 

Hi sscott,

 

I can't recall the rule that OB (bar 10 in your chart) is used to terminate a Lateral. Maybe you can check Spydertrader's post #47, 07/08/2009, 08:56 PM. See the first Lateral.

[Spydertrader 10]

Do you think bar 10 (crosing trendline A on significant increasing volume) or bar 18 (crosing trendline B on even more significant increasing volume) tell traders that market sentiment had changed? Or, you found more appropriate signal of change other than what I stated?

 

Once the market has provided a complete set of sequences, then a trader can look for a change signal. The evidence you have referenced developed after the specific fractal reached the end of its run.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader