The Price / Volume Relationship

[plantrader 10]

Wanted to show a friend of mine what is possible. Simulation with whiskey Just 1 car.

 

Nice day. It's Sim trading or live? And is 1 car = 1 contract? Don't understand the verbiage.

[gucci 10]

Add and explain the gaussians.

[gucci 10]

I was thinking the same thing. I was trying to find out what your definition of a tape or traverse is, as far as containers go, and you start exclaiming about laterals.

 

There are varying interpretations floating around for how to differentiate the components of such fractals. What is a tape, to you?

 

Here we go again... What is 2+2 for YOU ?

[plantrader 10]

Here we go again... What is 2+2 for YOU ?

 

I asked you first. Direct question requested... direct question received.

[gucci 10]

I asked you first. Direct question requested... direct question received.

Are you fucking kidding? Stop weeping and start learning.BTW THE TAPE CONSISTS OF TWO BARS. Clear enough?

[plantrader 10]

Are you fucking kidding? Stop weeping and start learning.BTW THE TAPE CONSISTS OF TWO BARS. Clear enough?

 

You're far too much of a 'guru' to discuss this stuff with. Have fun condescending to someone else. I've learned plenty and no, 2 bars was not in any way similar to the definition of a tape I've learned. At a minimum, a Tape needs a volume cycle (r2r2b2r or b2b2r2b) and either 1 container or 3 containers. THAT is why I was asking, because I know there are varying ways to view and handle this method. Took you a day to answer my question, and you could have spared me the rude bullshit in between.

[cnms2 10]

To those who still have difficulties using this method profitably, I suggest a RESET: put aside everything you know about it, then reread and assimilate ONLY Spydertrader's posts on this thread, starting with page 1. Pay attention to each word he wrote, and each line he drew!

 

Please be courteous and patient, or refrain from posting! Check your frustrations and pretentions at the door ...

[frenchfry 10]

I see that both plantrader and gucci use different definitions for their containers (tapes, etc.). This leads to frustration on both sides because nobody understands what the other means or why he or she doesn't "get it".

 

Step 1: Agree on the terminology.

 

For example Jack's.... "The five pertinent levels are: Channels, Traverses, Tapes, and Building Blocks of Tapes (BBT's) , and sub building blocks."

[plantrader 10]

I see that both plantrader and gucci use different definitions for their containers (tapes, etc.). This leads to frustration on both sides because nobody understands what the other means or why he or she doesn't "get it".

 

Step 1: Agree on the terminology.

 

For example Jack's.... "The five pertinent levels are: Channels, Traverses, Tapes, and Building Blocks of Tapes (BBT's) , and sub building blocks."

 

Agreed completely. That's what I was trying to do, but the subject would get changed rather than coming to terms on terminology. Discussion is pointless if we can't do that first.

[Mandelbrot 10]

Spyder definition of tapes changed from ET to TL

 

ET Tapes = 2 bar containers ie the 10 cases.

TL Tapes = full volume cycle.

[plantrader 10]

Spyder definition of tapes changed from ET to TL

 

ET Tapes = 2 bar containers ie the 10 cases.

TL Tapes = full volume cycle.

 

Thanks for that clarification, got it. The latter seems more tradeable in and of itself but I can't claim to understand the full details of how spyder specifically traded so I could be mistaken.

[gucci 10]

You're far too much of a 'guru' to discuss this stuff with. Have fun condescending to someone else. Took you a day to answer my question, and you could have spared me the rude bullshit in between.

 

Your wish will be granted.Just one last question... Are you a lady? You might want to team up with jbarnby...he likes you. Good trading to you. And grow up.

[gucci 10]

Spyder definition of tapes changed from ET to TL

 

ET Tapes = 2 bar containers ie the 10 cases.

TL Tapes = full volume cycle.

 

No, it did not.Your interpretation of his definition may have changed. He (the market) was right all the way.

[xioxxio 10]

No, it did not.Your interpretation of his definition may have changed. He (the market) was right all the way.

 

The market is always right, no-one is disputing that. It is the definitions that Todd used changed. I take you never went to the Vegas Conference, arranged in this forum. He clearly discussed BBT's, Tapes and Traverses.

 

BBT's are what you are referring to as tapes. Tapes are full volume cycle containers and Traverses are three tapes. That is the definition on THIS forum.

 

At the end of the day it does not matter what you call it.

[gucci 10]

The market is always right, no-one is disputing that.

At the end of the day it does not matter what you call it.

Now we are talking. Good job.

[gucci 10]

To those who still have difficulties using this method profitably, I suggest a RESET: put aside everything you know about it, then reread and assimilate ONLY Spydertrader's posts on this thread, starting with page 1. Pay attention to each word he wrote, and each line he drew!

 

Please be courteous and patient, or refrain from posting! Check your frustrations and pretentions at the door ...

 

Hi there. Glad to see you are still hanging around. How are you?

[plantrader 10]

Here you go... xxioxx THANK YOU. I do not know what for but THANK YOU. Let us please our friend here.It is more important for him to be right then to be a profitable trader.Couple of years later he might rethink what he is doing.

 

Hard to keep up with your post edits/updates. If only you knew anything about my trading and whether I was profitable or not, at that point you'd have a basis for commenting. Right now, you don't have any idea.

 

And similarly, it's more important for you to be a know-it-all yelling guru and constantly change the topic to maintain your appearance of guruism than it is to actually discuss things calmly for mutual benefit.

 

ANYBODY know admin so we can have the last 20 posts or so, each by gucci and myself to be removed? Complete waste of space on the blog and needless nonsense.

[gucci 10]

Hard to keep up with your post edits/updates. If only you knew anything about my trading and whether I was profitable or not, at that point you'd have a basis for commenting. Right now, you don't have any idea.

 

And similarly, it's more important for you to be a know-it-all yelling guru and constantly change the topic to maintain your appearance of guruism than it is to actually discuss things calmly for mutual benefit.

 

ANYBODY know admin so we can have the last 20 posts or so, each by gucci and myself to be removed? Complete waste of space on the blog and needless nonsense.

 

Now we are talking. Remove all of them. Happy trading to you. Better yet, just put me on ignore.

[plantrader 10]

Cnms, thanks, is it true that the 1st tape having it's own volume cycle is irrelevant in this case as far as what makes it a tape? I ask, because the other two tapes don't have a full cycle yet the red thing is called a traverse.

 

So in this example, a traverse is simply 3 123ftt containers and at least one overall vol cycle (not required in each tape)?

 

Edit: actually the 2nd container doesn't seem to have a FTT. So overall, this is just 1 container with a vol cycle, as a Traverse?

[xioxxio 10]

Check out post #15

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/candlestick-corner/6180-open-free-discussion-volume.html

 

It all depends on which fractal you want to trade at.

[plantrader 10]

Check out post #15

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/candlestick-corner/6180-open-free-discussion-volume.html

 

It all depends on which fractal you want to trade at.

 

In the snipet cnms posted, what I was getting at is confirming that what spyder called a traverse is what we'd currently call a BBT, agreed? The 2nd container not being valid is the main reason why, otherwise it'd be a tape.

 

Or if he considers that 2nd container having FTT'd, why? It's not a sym confirming lat, which means we can't use it's internal volume. But it did exit the opposite side that it formed.

[Mandelbrot 10]

I'm no authority on this.

But as I'm not getting any younger and as much pain, anguish and cost

as I've been through with trying to understand this methodology to a level that is consistantly usable, the following is in an effort to help all and anyone that has either been through the same and or, to help avoid or limit the confussion going forward:

 

There is only one life (that we so far know of), so it's better to live it, share it and enjoy,

whilst we are still here....

 

It would seem that it's not a matter of what we call something, be it a BBT, a Tape a Goat etc..but rather, that we know what something is.

 

What does this mean ?

 

Lets use terms (labels) we can all refer to:

 

A BBT gets us from Tape P1 to Tape P2,

X2X.

This is a known fact of this methodology.

 

What is also a fact, but little known, is that HOW BBT (1) is constructed, determines how BBT (2) and BBT (3) also need to be constructed in order for us to know what we have is a Tape.

 

This is what is referred to as containers of "equal weight".

Only if, or not until we have BBT's of equal weight, can we have a Tape.

 

What does this mean ?

 

BBT's are either "Simple" or "Complex"

 

Simple = a container (BBT) within which we are not able to annotate any non dom trend lines as per the 10 x 2 bar cases.

 

Complex = a container (BBT) within which we are able to annotate non dominant trend lines as per the 10 x 2 bar cases.

 

Non dom trend lines in an up BBT =

FBP, EH, SYM, and also IBGS and OB.

 

Non dom trend lines in a down BBT =

FTP, EH, SYM and also IBGS and OB.

 

ie: in an up container (BBT), a FTP would not make the container Complex, because we cannot annotate non dom (down) trend lines to a FTP.

 

Hence this would be Simple, for as long or unless we are not able to annotate any non dom trend lines.

 

So:

BBT (1) determines what is required of BBT (2) (to know we are at Tape P3) and what is required of BBT (3) to know we have a valid Tape.

 

In other words;

If BBT (1) = Simple, then BBT (2) and BBT (3) need only be Simple, but can be Complex,

in order to know we have a Tape.

 

If BBT (1) is Complex then only if (or until) BBT (2) is also Complex can we be at Tape P3.

 

BBT(1) is the road map for how our Tape needs to be constructed

(in order to know it is a Tape)

 

ie:

If BBT (1) X2X is Complex (which gets us to Tape P2)

and BBT (2) 2Y is Simple, then BBT (2) is not of equal weight to BBT 1.

(BBT (2) is not realy a BBT)

So we cannot yet have a valid Tape P3.

 

What we do here is fan our BBT (1) rtl to encase BBT (2) (which is not really a BBT).

Hence we are still only building BBT (1)

In other words we are not yet at Tape P2.

 

 

 

 

The above assumes a minimum of 3 x BBT's to build a Tape.

The above also assumes that the OOE, (p1,p2,p3 and ftt) have all been satisfied

for each BBT.

 

HTH.

 

Plantrader, I think this is the terminology you are referring to. This is very different from ET. Gucci is calling a bbt a tape, hence the misunderstanding.

 

 

(Post #3957 going forward)

Edited May 23, 2015 by Mandelbrot

[gucci 10]

Plantrader, I think this is the terminology you are referring to. This is very different from ET. Gucci is calling a bbt a tape, hence the misunderstanding.

 

 

(Post #3957 going forward)

 

Bingo...You will have to start with something.A bar is a bar. Two bars give you more information. You can start annotating.Call it a miserable trend.Volume is a gas pedal. Price is a car. Drive it.

[203NG 10]

Thank you for this.

 

Complex = a container (BBT) within which we are able to annotate non dominant trend lines as per the 10 x 2 bar cases.

 

Non dom trend lines in an up BBT =

FBP, EH, SYM, and also IBGS and OB.

 

I don't understand how to annotate a non dominant trend line in the case of an ibgs (say in up BBT), which makes a higher high and higher low relative to the previous bar. It seems similar to the FTP. Spyder made no reference to bar open and closing prices in the 2 bar cases.

[gucci 10]

Thank you for this.

 

Complex = a container (BBT) within which we are able to annotate non dominant trend lines as per the 10 x 2 bar cases.

 

Non dom trend lines in an up BBT =

FBP, EH, SYM, and also IBGS and OB.

 

I don't understand how to annotate a non dominant trend line in the case of an ibgs (say in up BBT), which makes a higher high and higher low relative to the previous bar. It seems similar to the FTP. Spyder made no reference to bar open and closing prices in the 2 bar cases.

What is the question? Post a snipet with annotation confusion.

Edited May 24, 2015 by gucci