The Price / Volume Relationship

[Above & Beyond 10]

Is anyone currently trading the Jack Hershey Equity Method? I am new to it and recenly enrolled in Trade Navigator free trial in the hope they would have the needed filters They have some but seem to lack the ranking of stocks that cycle every six months. If anyone is set up for equities I would greatly appreciate feedback on how your screening filters are set up .

[vienna 10]

Just found this thread...WOW...lots to read and learn. Couple questions?

 

Is Sydertrader still here?

Where can I get the correct Indicator for volume for Ninja Trader?

 

Thank you

 

1. No, Spyder does not post here for a while

2. Head over to Elite Trader, go to the thread "Software to trade Jack Hershey Method"

3. Contact Stepan7 and Nkhoi, they have developed a great channel tool!

 

best of luck,

 

Vienna

[Above & Beyond 10]

1. No, Spyder does not post here for a while

2. Head over to Elite Trader, go to the thread "Software to trade Jack Hershey Method"

3. Contact Stepan7 and Nkhoi, they have developed a great channel tool!

 

best of luck,

 

Vienna

 

Thanks for the reply. Typed in "Software to trade Jack Hershey Method" at Elite Trader search function and came back no match found. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

[patrader 10]

Forums - Software Used to Trade Jack Hershey Methods

[Above & Beyond 10]

Patrader,

Thank-you, I'm tying to get the appropriate filters set up to trade equities and it will be helpful if there is a platform out there that has them so that I don't have to try to re-invent something.

[vienna 10]

Trade Navigator has them set up

[jbarnby 10]

I've had a lot of success with this method. While I'm grateful to spyder for his insights and guidance, most of my success came through self-discovery, using the basics described in this and other threads. I will upload a couple of recent Traverses in hopes that it might encourage others. Success will only come after you achieve complete understanding of how to build containers correctly and manage fractal nesting,

[jbarnby 10]

Additionally, for many months now I've been mentoring a group of close friends, many of whom have left corporate employment and are now trading profitably full-time. So hang in there - IT CAN BE DONE!

[Corey 10]

I've had a lot of success with this method. While I'm grateful to spyder for his insights and guidance, most of my success came through self-discovery,...

this is only way imho.

 

Additionally, for many months now I've been mentoring a group of close friends, many of whom have left corporate employment and are now trading profitably full-time. So hang in there - IT CAN BE DONE!

 

finally we have another trainer. :shocked:

[vienna 10]

I've had a lot of success with this method. While I'm grateful to spyder for his insights and guidance, most of my success came through self-discovery, using the basics described in this and other threads. I will upload a couple of recent Traverses in hopes that it might encourage others. Success will only come after you achieve complete understanding of how to build containers correctly and manage fractal nesting,

 

Second that...!

 

 

Vienna

[cnms2 10]

I've had a lot of success with this method. While I'm grateful to spyder for his insights and guidance, most of my success came through self-discovery, using the basics described in this and other threads. I will upload a couple of recent Traverses in hopes that it might encourage others. Success will only come after you achieve complete understanding of how to build containers correctly and manage fractal nesting,

Congratulations! Your annotations nicely illustrate the validity of some concepts: "degap & carry-over", "order of events" introduced by Spydertrader, and currently embraced by Jack Hershey too, "the pattern", "jokari window", "volume leads price", "nested fractals", "volatility expansion", "ftt", introduced by Jack. Vienna's chart nicely shows nested fractals into your main fractal.

 

It would be nice if you could illustrate on your example charts where are the entry, exit, and reversal (if that's the case) points, as per your trading approach (be it pt3 only, dominants only, or point to point, etc.).

[xioxxio 10]

Congratulations! Your annotations nicely illustrate the validity of some concepts: "degap & carry-over", "order of events" introduced by Spydertrader, and currently embraced by Jack Hershey too, "the pattern", "jokari window", "volume leads price", "nested fractals", "volatility expansion", "ftt", introduced by Jack. Vienna's chart nicely shows nested fractals into your main fractal.

 

It would be nice if you could illustrate on your example charts where are the entry, exit, and reversal (if that's the case) points, as per your trading approach (be it pt3 only, dominants only, or point to point, etc.).

 

Million dollar question Spyder never spoke about entry and exit points. Only FTT to FTT

[jbarnby 10]

Million dollar question Spyder never spoke about entry and exit points. Only FTT to FTT

 

In my opinion there was probably good reason for that. As Spyder stated in the past, this is not so much a method that lends itself to precise entry/exit discussion, but rather about learning to read the market and knowing what must come next....completing the required order of events, if you will. I tend to believe that when one successfully learns to read (and nest) the order of events, the entry/exit becomes a bit obvious and doesn't require a lot of discussion.

 

With that said, I prefer to trade exclusively at the Traverse level. Sometimes, if the sequences are ridiculously obvious at the faster fractal, I might drop to the next faster fractal for a trading opportunity. But that's purely discretionary and only gets easier as one gains more experience.

 

This is NOT a method about making numerous trades throughout the day. Sometimes we find ourselves holding thru an entire day as the market builds only a tape. At other times we may have to carry our trading fractal across multiple days while we wait for the next opportunity.

 

While some might disagree, I tend to believe that this method cannot be fully transferred through public forums and high-level discussions. Bravo to Spyder for trying and providing many of the fundamentals and basics in this thread (and they are here), but full understanding for me took many years of blood sweat and tears (literally).

[patrader 10]

learning to read the market and knowing what must come next.....

 

j thanks for posting your charts.I totally agree that learning to read the market is key.Would you be so kind to post a chart of the previous day and explain the preflight checklist carryover for the next market day open.TIA

[cnms2 10]

Million dollar question Spyder never spoke about entry and exit points. Only FTT to FTT

 

Check this post from February 2007:

Beginning with the attached snippet we see the first down channel (red), and within it, a red FTT. Rather than reverse at this point, The Forest View Trader

holds

until price breaks the right side trend line. At that point, the Forest View Trader Exits, and waits for the formation of a Point Three in the direction of the FTT (highlighted yellow). At this point, the Forest View Trader enters

Long

off the Point Three Formation continuing to

hold

until price breaks the right side trend line. Notice, at the top of the snippet, we see another FTT (circled). However, once again, The Forest View Trader does not reverse. The Forest View Trader holds until price breaks the right side trend line. Once again, the Forest View Trader then waits for a Point Three Formation (highlighted Green) in order to enter short (in the snippet example) as is the same direction of the previous FTT. Again, we hold as long as price stays within the Point Three Channel.

 

Notice, how I draw in the taped channels only until I created a Point Three dominant trend. After that point, no need to draw in the taped channels (at

this

resolution). As you can see (and if you can't from the snippet and description, you

will

by looking at today's ES chart) 'flaws' have no place in the Forest View. We do

not

care what bars do

within

the channels. We

only

care that price

stays

within the channels or not.

 

As price moves through the channel, you should remain ever vigilant to look for FTT's in an effort to learn to anticipate what happens next (To begin to

peek

over the hill for an advance warning). You should also continue to monitor Gaussians using the "bigger picture" as a guide. When an FTT arrives on scene, continue to walk through the sequence of events which you would

normally

do at lower level resolution (Reverse on the FTT, Exit on the FBO, Etc.)

[innersky 10]

I've had a lot of success with this method. While I'm grateful to spyder for his insights and guidance, most of my success came through self-discovery, using the basics described in this and other threads. I will upload a couple of recent Traverses in hopes that it might encourage others. Success will only come after you achieve complete understanding of how to build containers correctly and manage fractal nesting,

 

In that first chart attached, a R2R seems to start 12:35, and ending at 13:10. At its end it turns into a lateral. However, this lateral starts with a lower peak, compared to the rest of the R2R.

Does this mean that the R2R isn't done yet, and as such we know that we are still on a faster fractal?

 

PS Thanks for posting your charts, it helps.

 

--

innersky

[Monkman 10]

I've had a lot of success with this method. While I'm grateful to spyder for his insights and guidance, most of my success came through self-discovery, using the basics described in this and other threads. I will upload a couple of recent Traverses in hopes that it might encourage others. Success will only come after you achieve complete understanding of how to build containers correctly and manage fractal nesting,

 

Which other threads would you recommend for providing background information on nesting fractals?

[TokyoWarrior 10]

Which other threads would you recommend for providing background information on nesting fractals?

 

Forums - Nesting Fractals

[jbarnby 10]

Which other threads would you recommend for providing background information on nesting fractals?

 

I'm believe I'm familiar with all threads about this method but I do not recall any significant discussions about nesting prior to this thread on TL. If I'm wrong hopefully someone else will correct me. I found the most valuable discussion in this threat to have taken place around the October 2010 period. Hope that helps.

[Monkman 10]

Attached is my AM chart for today. You will see that there is a point where there are two sets of gaussians for one volume formation. That was an intra day mistake, that I corrected several bars later.

 

I am still actively working on my nesting real time so this chart is not perfect. Also included is my trading log. Its mainly just a set of notes bar by bar that I have found helpful in re iterating my mental notes. Another word of caution, my trading log is not completely inline with Jack's method. However, there is a detailed boot camp thread on elite trader where he covers this.

 

[Monkman 10]

[Monkman 10]

[Monkman 10]

Updated with fixed volume annotations. If anyone has the volume marked differently, lets see it.

 

[Monkman 10]

The path to determing what something is or is not resides in the Volume Pane.

 

A number of traders have fallen into a very bad habit over the years. They watch the Price Pane of their chart, rather than, spend the bulk of their time focusing on Volume. Let's face it. Price is a lot more fun to watch - especially if Price rockets off in the direction you entered the trade.

 

Traders do this because they all want to see "how they are doing" in a trade. Enter short, and as long as the market keeps making lower lows you are making some very nice coin. After all, making money is the goal, right?

 

Well, no. It really isn't.

 

Sure. We all enjoy banking profits. However, 'Making Money' represents a consequence of the learning process - not the goal.

 

Learning to see when the sequences of Price and Volume have reached completion across all fractals, learning to correctly and consistantly understand the fractal nature of the market, learning to stay on the right side of the market for one's specific trading fractal - these all represent goals.

 

Learn these things and the result of doing so is profits.

 

In other words, the 'mental image' everyone needs to develop, with respect to a tape, traverse or channel, comes not from the Price Pane, but instead resides in the Volume Pane.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

As many of you know I have been working on these methods for years. Still chugging away at the rigorous learning curve. One issue I noticed recently, in the past, and that has come into the spot light again is how to correctly label the Gaussian formation , so that price can be annotated in sync correctly to reflect it. So after reading over the quote above, for more times than I can count, Spyder states, "In other words, the 'mental image' everyone needs to develop, with respect to a tape, traverse or channel, comes not from the Price Pane, but instead resides in the Volume Pane."

 

So Why in Mr Black's chart does he use what he sees in the Price Pane to describe the volume? Am I missing something in this picture? The volume does not appear to reflect decreasing black, and increasing black.

 

 

See attached Chart

[jbarnby 10]

So Why in Mr Black's chart does he use what he sees in the Price Pane to describe the volume? Am I missing something in this picture? The volume does not appear to reflect decreasing black, and increasing black.

 

See attached Chart

 

First, he crossed a previous RTL. When you cross a rtl increasing volume is implied. IOW, anytime the market crosses a rtl it must have gone x2x on some fractal. Second, our gaussians must match our trendlines. The gaussians, which are built in the volume window, tell us what fractal we have.