Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Recommended Posts

FilterTip,

 

Is there any reason you start annotating the DAX from the futures open 8:00am vs. the cash open 9:00am ?

 

I have attached the DAX chart from 9:00am open and that big move was an FTT from the previous day (carry over) as opposed to a pt3 from that day.

 

Any comments appreciated, thanks.

DAX.thumb.png.0cd440627fd9af5d806685ec6771779e.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  xioxxio said:
FilterTip,

 

Is there any reason you start annotating the DAX from the futures open 8:00am vs. the cash open 9:00am ?

 

I have attached the DAX chart from 9:00am open and that big move was an FTT from the previous day (carry over) as opposed to a pt3 from that day.

 

Any comments appreciated, thanks.

 

Hi xioxxio

 

First off my pc is set to EST so the times on the DAX chart I posted are not correct re Eurex times..not with standing that, I didn't annotate any carry over on that chart..I just wanted to step right in so to speak and see what was what and how/if I could see things.

 

As for starting the DAX chart I think there is enough going on in the one hour pre cash open,

but I think it better, as your snippet shows, to synch the start and end time to the cash, as volume would be at a minimum sufficient level.

 

 

Gucci is the Daxer par excellence :) so perhaps/hopefully if he's still around reading

here he might be able to offer more in sites..

 

hope that helps

Edited by FilterTip

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  amisme said:
It is interesting to me that we have ended up at about the same place. I started my current annotations from a clean slate a few days ago......

 

I look at both the 15 and the 60 (and, infrequently, the daily) for the big picture, all of them degapped.

The tapes on the 15 correspond almost exactly to the traverses on the 5 (got that from Mak)....so, if there is a slower fractal RTL or LTL looming nearby, I want to know....have seen price react to these too often....(don't ask me why this works, have no idea)...

 

hth, Vienna

5aa710e0be2ed_15and60.thumb.gif.e5bb8d51cc830e1a4760d1d285f05295.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Early day clarity on yesterday's puzzle, and some perspective

 

  Spydertrader said:
With respect to The Market, anything can, and often does, happen. Whether or not such occurances translate into an opportunity for profit results from the skill set of the individual trader's ability to M.A.D.A. - all in an appropriate and timely fashion. As such, the question is not, "does this happen?" Rather, the question should be, "If this happens, would I 'see' it, and if so, would I know what it was quick enough, in order for me to act accordingly?" Only you know the answer to such a question.

 

- Spydertrader

5aa710e0ced38_ES06-12(5Min)3_23_2012a.thumb.jpg.b1ba3ac898a3745b9b096915101084ab.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today's chart. Low volume with FBOs was tricky in real time.

 

I can't attach the spreadsheet I made for pace so I took a screenshot of the output. Volatility data is only the last 14 days but volume data goes back 20 days. Current as of EOD today.

5aa710e0df89f_ES06-12(5Min)3_23_2012.thumb.jpg.2b56765f1400ba492a7b7bc328edf431.jpg

pace.PNG.0dc2583c4d934774e6a469f2bfcf85b1.PNG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was expecting to see a down traverse followed by up traverse today. I guess I got something like that. Pretty sure I'm not off by a fractal level, but if anyone has something different, I would like to see it.

 

One goal I had for today was to see volume with no noise and annotate every peak and trough. Every volume peak is a point 1, 2, or FTT, while every volume trough is an X2X or point 3. 15:30 I did not see a complete sequence for. I expect this is because pace increased after the initial R2R and dropped the second trough out of visibility.

5aa710e1bf83f_ES06-12(5Min)3_26_2012.thumb.jpg.eb61633a53c389ca2502923c1f4d3648.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No noise.

 

Changed some fractal levels from yesterday. Something about VEs that I need to look into.

 

Tried a new convention for doing sub-skinny volume lines. I think I like it.

5aa710e27b2a3_ES06-12(5Min)3_27_2012.thumb.jpg.a7ce9e7552ad1ae3e584280c4ecd653b.jpg

Edited by amisme
haha I'm good at internets

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, another general question about maintaining fractal integrity.

 

Let's say I have a traverse, and it accelerates. I get a new point 3 and I redraw the RTL. What are the requirements now for establishing a new traverse in the opposite direction? Does point 2 need to occur outside the accelerated RTL, or the original RTL? I would think that a pace acceleration would reshape the container in such a way that the new RTL becomes the meaningful RTL for maintaining fractal integrity, though the original RTL may still be relevant as a bookmark.

 

Spyder did state early on in the journals that the original RTL was mandatory and the accelerated was optional, but I don't think there was the same emphasis on fractal differentiation back then. Examples early in this thread lead me to think that this is not something to go by.

 

Has anyone had good results maintaining fractal integrity while requiring original RTLs to be broken after a pace acceleration greatly steepens a container?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Vienna,

 

I read your old posts. You were confused by bbt, tape, traverse and channel. It seemed you had no idea how to annotate a chart at that time.

 

I am still struggling how to annotate the charts. How did you 'get it' and finally annotate a chart correctly? What drills or work did you do?

 

Thanks!

 

gamblerKi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  xioxxio said:
gamblerKi, which market are you trading?

 

I am far from the trading stage. I seldomly watch the market at real-time.

 

I only annotate the static charts. I annotated ES, DAX and KS static charts but unable to annotate correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  xioxxio said:
ES VolumePace from January to mid March. It's amazing how close the values are to amisme data.

 

How do the values on this graphic (e.g. fast from 19-31k) relate to the pace lines? Would the pace line for fast be at 19k then, or in the middle between 19 and 31k?

 

Just giving an example, the numbers might be off...

 

thanks,

 

Vienna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  vienna said:
How do the values on this graphic (e.g. fast from 19-31k) relate to the pace lines? Would the pace line for fast be at 19k then, or in the middle between 19 and 31k?

 

Just giving an example, the numbers might be off...

 

thanks,

 

Vienna

 

All calculations are done by Mac's spreadsheet (volumepacemak). I just plug in 5 minute ES Bloomberg data and run the macro.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone happen to have charts for the "channel drill" from June 13 2009 to August 5 2009?

 

edit: For anyone wondering, I did find the answer to my earlier question. The accelerated RTL is used for RTL break test and pt2 confirmation of a new container.

Edited by amisme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:)

  xioxxio said:
All calculations are done by Mac's spreadsheet (volumepacemak). I just plug in 5 minute ES Bloomberg data and run the macro.

 

OK thank you...this was not really my question but is welcome information ...where can i find the original spreadsheet with the macros intact?

 

thanks,

 

Vienna

Edited by vienna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  gamblerKi said:
Hi Vienna,

 

I read your old posts. You were confused by bbt, tape, traverse and channel. It seemed you had no idea how to annotate a chart at that time.

 

I am still struggling how to annotate the charts. How did you 'get it' and finally annotate a chart correctly? What drills or work did you do?

 

Thanks!

 

gamblerKi

 

 

" It seemed you had no idea how to annotate a chart at that time."- darn right!....:)

 

Just doing it, repetition, repetition. As to drills, the most useful I think was taking 50 charts with volume only, and draw what I thought price had done, and then the inverse: take charts with price only and draw the gaussians. Jack actually advised me to do this. Also, drawing each bar in real time by looking at volume only...did that for 2 weeks, bar by bar.

 

Expect this to be very frustrating at first, but very helpful...good luck!!

 

hth,

Vienna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I and several others seem to have fallen into a trap that I have recently become aware of.

 

I had been told that the method had changed considerably between the ET threads and this one, but I thought that was just in terms of concepts like “lateral movement” and “faster fractal traverse.” The reality is that the fractal concept is used in a drastically different way in the ET threads and is fundamentally incompatible with what is presented on TL. Trying to apply concepts from the ET threads to a TL conceptual foundation has been sadly counterproductive for me.

 

Spyder has explained several times that when he started futures, he was able to trade mostly intuitively without being fully aware of his thought processes. I believe that as the threads went on, he became more consciously aware of what he was doing subconsciously and refined his understanding of the price/volume relationship. Going back over the ET threads, I can see how Spyder’s explanations gradually shifted more towards what is presented on TL, with one of the largest pieces being a shift from defining traverses as having a visible retrace, meaning that a lower fractal level is visible, to being a distinct and consistent fractal level made up of containers that are one level smaller. Glancing back over this thread, I see that gucci also saw what I am seeing now. Learning to view the price/volume relationship as presented here on TL is comprehensive and complete. It is not lacking anything that you will find in the ET threads.

 

If one wishes to learn from the ET threads, I believe the best way to do that is to set aside the concepts of consistent and distinct fractal levels and follow those threads exactly as instructed, possibly preceding this by trading equities for a few years, as Spyder did.

 

Given that I believe what is laid out in this thread to be the pinnacle of Spyder’s understanding of markets, I have decided that starting from here and moving forward is the best path for me to follow. Anything that happened before 2009 is not something I will spend time on. I will follow exactly what is laid out early in this thread, looking at charts for similarities and differences that signal continuation or change on different levels of sentiment.

 

  Spydertrader said:

Begin with these smaller pieces and build from there. In such a fashion, you'll soon see how letters form words, and words become sentences. It is within these sentences that the market tells its story.

 

  Spydertrader said:
Before one can learn how to learn to thoroughly and correctly annotate a chart, one must learn the process of differentiation.

 

I believe that the ten cases are the metaphorical letters. I also note that Spyder has emphasized differentiating between them over annotating a chart. This process does not require perfectly annotated charts to begin.

 

I hope this helps others to decide exactly what course of action they want to take in order to reach their goals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 31st March 2025.   Trump Confirms Tariffs on All Countries, Sending Stocks Lower.   The NASDAQ continues to trade lower due to the US confirming the latest tariffs will be on all countries. In addition to this, bearish volatility also is largely due to the higher inflation data from Friday. The NASDAQ declines to its lowest price since September 11th 2024. Core PCE Price Index - Inflation Increases Again! The PCE Price Index read 2.5% aligning with expert forecasts not triggering any alarm bells. However, the Core PCE Price Index rose from 0.3% to 0.4% MoM and from 2.7% to 2.8% YoY, signalling growing inflationary pressure. This increases the likelihood that the Federal Reserve will maintain elevated interest rates for an extended period. The NASDAQ fell 2.60% due to the higher inflation reading which is known to pressure the stock market due to pressure on consumer demand and a more hawkish Federal Reserve. Boston Fed President Susan Collins recently commented that tariffs could drive up inflation, though the long-term impact remains uncertain. She told journalists that a short-term spike is the most probable outcome but believes the current pause in monetary policy adjustments is appropriate given the prevailing uncertainties. Although, certain investment banks such as JP Morgan actually believe the Federal Reserve will be forced into cutting rates. This is due to expectations that the economy will struggle under the new trade policy. For example, JP Morgan expects the Federal Reserve to delay rate cuts but will quickly cut towards the end of 2025. Market Risk Appetite Takes a Hit! A big factor for the day is the drop in the risk appetite of investors. This can be seen from the VIX which is up almost 6%, Gold which is trading 1.30% higher and the Japanese Yen which is the day’s best performing currency. Most safe haven assets, bar the US Dollar, increase in value. It is also worth noting that all indices are decreasing in value during this morning's Asian session with the Nikkei225 and NASDAQ witnessing the strongest decline. Previously the stock market rose in value as investors heard rumours that tariffs would only be on certain countries. This bullish swing occurred between March 14th and 25th. Over the weekend, President Donald Trump indicated that the upcoming tariffs would apply to all countries, not just those with the largest trade imbalances with the US. NASDAQ - Technical Analysis In terms of technical analysis, the NASDAQ continues to obtain indications that sellers control the price action. The price opens on a bearish price gap measuring 0.30% and trades below all Moving Averages on all timeframes. The NASDAQ also trades below the VWAP and almost 100% of the most influential components (stocks) are declining in value.     The next significant support level is at $18,313, and the resistance level stands at $20,367.95. Key Takeaway Points: NASDAQ falls to its lowest since September 2024 as the US confirms tariffs on all countries, adding to inflation concerns. Core PCE inflation rises to 0.4% MoM and 2.8% YoY, increasing the likelihood of prolonged high interest rates. Investor risk appetite drops as VIX jumps 6%, gold gains 1.3%, and safe-haven assets outperform. NASDAQ shows strong bearish momentum, trading below key technical levels with support at $18,313 and resistance at $20,367.95. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • PM Philip Morris stock, top of range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?PM
    • EXC Exelon stock, nice range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?EXC
    • UTZ Utz Brands stock, watch for a bottom breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?UTZ
    • FL Foot Locker stock, nice breakdown follow through at https://stockconsultant.com/?FL
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.