The Price / Volume Relationship

[xioxxio 10]

FilterTip,

 

Is there any reason you start annotating the DAX from the futures open 8:00am vs. the cash open 9:00am ?

 

I have attached the DAX chart from 9:00am open and that big move was an FTT from the previous day (carry over) as opposed to a pt3 from that day.

 

Any comments appreciated, thanks.

[FilterTip 10]

FilterTip,

 

Is there any reason you start annotating the DAX from the futures open 8:00am vs. the cash open 9:00am ?

 

I have attached the DAX chart from 9:00am open and that big move was an FTT from the previous day (carry over) as opposed to a pt3 from that day.

 

Any comments appreciated, thanks.

 

Hi xioxxio

 

First off my pc is set to EST so the times on the DAX chart I posted are not correct re Eurex times..not with standing that, I didn't annotate any carry over on that chart..I just wanted to step right in so to speak and see what was what and how/if I could see things.

 

As for starting the DAX chart I think there is enough going on in the one hour pre cash open,

but I think it better, as your snippet shows, to synch the start and end time to the cash, as volume would be at a minimum sufficient level.

 

 

Gucci is the Daxer par excellence so perhaps/hopefully if he's still around reading

here he might be able to offer more in sites..

 

hope that helps

Edited March 23, 2012 by FilterTip

[vienna 10]

It is interesting to me that we have ended up at about the same place. I started my current annotations from a clean slate a few days ago......

 

I look at both the 15 and the 60 (and, infrequently, the daily) for the big picture, all of them degapped.

The tapes on the 15 correspond almost exactly to the traverses on the 5 (got that from Mak)....so, if there is a slower fractal RTL or LTL looming nearby, I want to know....have seen price react to these too often....(don't ask me why this works, have no idea)...

 

hth, Vienna

[amisme 10]

Early day clarity on yesterday's puzzle, and some perspective

 

With respect to The Market, anything can, and often does, happen. Whether or not such occurances translate into an opportunity for profit results from the skill set of the individual trader's ability to M.A.D.A. - all in an appropriate and timely fashion. As such, the question is not, "does this happen?" Rather, the question should be, "If this happens, would I 'see' it, and if so, would I know what it was quick enough, in order for me to act accordingly?" Only you know the answer to such a question.

 

- Spydertrader

[amisme 10]

Today's chart. Low volume with FBOs was tricky in real time.

 

I can't attach the spreadsheet I made for pace so I took a screenshot of the output. Volatility data is only the last 14 days but volume data goes back 20 days. Current as of EOD today.

[patrader 10]

can you say classic rollin up.hth

[xioxxio 10]

STOXX50 VolumePace from January to mid March

[xioxxio 10]

ES VolumePace from January to mid March. It's amazing how close the values are to amisme data.

Edited March 26, 2012 by xioxxio

[amisme 10]

I was expecting to see a down traverse followed by up traverse today. I guess I got something like that. Pretty sure I'm not off by a fractal level, but if anyone has something different, I would like to see it.

 

One goal I had for today was to see volume with no noise and annotate every peak and trough. Every volume peak is a point 1, 2, or FTT, while every volume trough is an X2X or point 3. 15:30 I did not see a complete sequence for. I expect this is because pace increased after the initial R2R and dropped the second trough out of visibility.

[amisme 10]

No noise.

 

Changed some fractal levels from yesterday. Something about VEs that I need to look into.

 

Tried a new convention for doing sub-skinny volume lines. I think I like it.

Edited March 27, 2012 by amisme
haha I'm good at internets

[amisme 10]

So, another general question about maintaining fractal integrity.

 

Let's say I have a traverse, and it accelerates. I get a new point 3 and I redraw the RTL. What are the requirements now for establishing a new traverse in the opposite direction? Does point 2 need to occur outside the accelerated RTL, or the original RTL? I would think that a pace acceleration would reshape the container in such a way that the new RTL becomes the meaningful RTL for maintaining fractal integrity, though the original RTL may still be relevant as a bookmark.

 

Spyder did state early on in the journals that the original RTL was mandatory and the accelerated was optional, but I don't think there was the same emphasis on fractal differentiation back then. Examples early in this thread lead me to think that this is not something to go by.

 

Has anyone had good results maintaining fractal integrity while requiring original RTLs to be broken after a pace acceleration greatly steepens a container?

[outsource 10]

"What are the requirements now for establishing a new traverse in the opposite direction? "

 

ftt>FTT>FTT

[gamblerKi 10]

Hi Vienna,

 

I read your old posts. You were confused by bbt, tape, traverse and channel. It seemed you had no idea how to annotate a chart at that time.

 

I am still struggling how to annotate the charts. How did you 'get it' and finally annotate a chart correctly? What drills or work did you do?

 

Thanks!

 

gamblerKi

[xioxxio 10]

gamblerKi, which market are you trading?

[gamblerKi 10]

gamblerKi, which market are you trading?

 

I am far from the trading stage. I seldomly watch the market at real-time.

 

I only annotate the static charts. I annotated ES, DAX and KS static charts but unable to annotate correctly.

[vienna 10]

ES VolumePace from January to mid March. It's amazing how close the values are to amisme data.

 

How do the values on this graphic (e.g. fast from 19-31k) relate to the pace lines? Would the pace line for fast be at 19k then, or in the middle between 19 and 31k?

 

Just giving an example, the numbers might be off...

 

thanks,

 

Vienna

[xioxxio 10]

How do the values on this graphic (e.g. fast from 19-31k) relate to the pace lines? Would the pace line for fast be at 19k then, or in the middle between 19 and 31k?

 

Just giving an example, the numbers might be off...

 

thanks,

 

Vienna

 

All calculations are done by Mac's spreadsheet (volumepacemak). I just plug in 5 minute ES Bloomberg data and run the macro.

[TIKITRADER 10]

All calculations are done by Mac's spreadsheet (volumepacemak). I just plug in 5 minute ES Bloomberg data and run the macro.

 

If anyone is looking for volumepacemak

it can be found here from Vorzo

 

volumepacemak

[amisme 10]

Does anyone happen to have charts for the "channel drill" from June 13 2009 to August 5 2009?

 

edit: For anyone wondering, I did find the answer to my earlier question. The accelerated RTL is used for RTL break test and pt2 confirmation of a new container.

Edited April 22, 2012 by amisme

[vienna 10]

All calculations are done by Mac's spreadsheet (volumepacemak). I just plug in 5 minute ES Bloomberg data and run the macro.

 

OK thank you...this was not really my question but is welcome information ...where can i find the original spreadsheet with the macros intact?

 

thanks,

 

Vienna

Edited April 23, 2012 by vienna

[vienna 10]

Hi Vienna,

 

I read your old posts. You were confused by bbt, tape, traverse and channel. It seemed you had no idea how to annotate a chart at that time.

 

I am still struggling how to annotate the charts. How did you 'get it' and finally annotate a chart correctly? What drills or work did you do?

 

Thanks!

 

gamblerKi

 

 

" It seemed you had no idea how to annotate a chart at that time."- darn right!....

 

Just doing it, repetition, repetition. As to drills, the most useful I think was taking 50 charts with volume only, and draw what I thought price had done, and then the inverse: take charts with price only and draw the gaussians. Jack actually advised me to do this. Also, drawing each bar in real time by looking at volume only...did that for 2 weeks, bar by bar.

 

Expect this to be very frustrating at first, but very helpful...good luck!!

 

hth,

Vienna

[TIKITRADER 10]

 

OK thank you...this was not really my question but is welcome information ...where can i find the original spreadsheet with the macros intact?

 

thanks,

 

Vienna

 

Not sure which one, is this what you are looking for ?

 

Mak's tools with update here _ 3rd post by txuk

 

 

 

 

Mak's tools with update here

[vienna 10]

Not sure which one, is this what you are looking for ?

 

Mak's tools with update here _ 3rd post by txuk

 

 

 

 

Mak's tools with update here

 

Thank you...will check it out!

 

Vienna

[vienna 10]

Mak's tools with update here [/url]

 

One more:

So I somehow link the macro to bloomberg data?

Thanks, Vienna

[amisme 10]

I and several others seem to have fallen into a trap that I have recently become aware of.

 

I had been told that the method had changed considerably between the ET threads and this one, but I thought that was just in terms of concepts like “lateral movement” and “faster fractal traverse.” The reality is that the fractal concept is used in a drastically different way in the ET threads and is fundamentally incompatible with what is presented on TL. Trying to apply concepts from the ET threads to a TL conceptual foundation has been sadly counterproductive for me.

 

Spyder has explained several times that when he started futures, he was able to trade mostly intuitively without being fully aware of his thought processes. I believe that as the threads went on, he became more consciously aware of what he was doing subconsciously and refined his understanding of the price/volume relationship. Going back over the ET threads, I can see how Spyder’s explanations gradually shifted more towards what is presented on TL, with one of the largest pieces being a shift from defining traverses as having a visible retrace, meaning that a lower fractal level is visible, to being a distinct and consistent fractal level made up of containers that are one level smaller. Glancing back over this thread, I see that gucci also saw what I am seeing now. Learning to view the price/volume relationship as presented here on TL is comprehensive and complete. It is not lacking anything that you will find in the ET threads.

 

If one wishes to learn from the ET threads, I believe the best way to do that is to set aside the concepts of consistent and distinct fractal levels and follow those threads exactly as instructed, possibly preceding this by trading equities for a few years, as Spyder did.

 

Given that I believe what is laid out in this thread to be the pinnacle of Spyder’s understanding of markets, I have decided that starting from here and moving forward is the best path for me to follow. Anything that happened before 2009 is not something I will spend time on. I will follow exactly what is laid out early in this thread, looking at charts for similarities and differences that signal continuation or change on different levels of sentiment.

 

Begin with these smaller pieces and build from there. In such a fashion, you'll soon see how letters form words, and words become sentences. It is within these sentences that the market tells its story.

 

Before one can learn how to learn to thoroughly and correctly annotate a chart, one must learn the process of differentiation.

 

I believe that the ten cases are the metaphorical letters. I also note that Spyder has emphasized differentiating between them over annotating a chart. This process does not require perfectly annotated charts to begin.

 

I hope this helps others to decide exactly what course of action they want to take in order to reach their goals.