The Price / Volume Relationship

[xioxxio 10]

I bet that was before 'clean page' time. You got 3 channels there just eliminate one of them.

 

Are you saying all of Spyders drawings on elite forum (these go right up to the end of his teachings and even includes the last image posted by Spyder) that were done before the 'clean pages' are wrong?

 

When were the 'clean pages' released? I really think this needs to be resolved.

 

Where is the actual tread with the 'clean pages'?

[Corey 10]

Are you saying all of Spyders drawings on elite forum (these go right up to the end of his teachings and even includes the last image posted by Spyder) that were done before the 'clean pages' are wrong?

 

When were the 'clean pages' released? I really think this needs to be resolved.

 

Where is the actual tread with the 'clean pages'?

 

such a blanket statement but I already anticipate it by saying 3 channels thus he still got 2 channels right. The last time I posted a ET link it got deleted, didn't last even for one night, didn't see that happen with other's ET link post tho.

[stepan7 10]

I bet that was before 'clean page' time. You got 3 channels there just eliminate one of them.

 

It's wrong. "Clean Page 4" describe ideal situation.

[gamblerKi 10]

It's wrong. "Clean Page 4" describe ideal situation.

 

Hi Stepan,

 

If I understand correctly, you mean:

 

1) In ideal case, the point 2 of a container is OUTSIDE the prior container's RTL.

 

2) In some cases, the point 2 of a container CAN BE inside the prior container's RTL.

 

 

If the above 2 statements are correct, these do apply to all fractals. Am I right?

 

Where can I find the relevant information?

 

 

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Ki

[abelincoln 10]

It's wrong. "Clean Page 4" describe ideal situation.

 

Just not true. Don't trade certainty for mud.

 

Think about how sub-fractals are introduced.

 

Forums - SnakeEYE`s handicaps

 

10-24-11 03:37 PM

 

Quote from BenzMercedesSL: The point 2 of the trading fractal can be inside the prior parallelogram of the same fractal. I saw this in many annotated charts from Jack Hershey's students.

 

 

 

Students are encouraged to make mistakes. You are making one as well.

 

If you were being helpful (I'm not), you would have posted clean page four which contradicts you stated mistaken belief. So go get clean page four and reason through your error.

[Corey 10]

..

 

1) In ideal case, the point 2 of a container is OUTSIDE the prior container's RTL.

...

 

Ki

stick with ideal case is your best bet.

[stepan7 10]

Hi Stepan,

 

If I understand correctly, you mean:

 

1) In ideal case, the point 2 of a container is OUTSIDE the prior container's RTL.

 

2) In some cases, the point 2 of a container CAN BE inside the prior container's RTL.

 

 

If the above 2 statements are correct, these do apply to all fractals. Am I right?

 

Where can I find the relevant information?

 

 

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Ki

 

no. see attached. p2 and p3 geen channel inside red channel

Edited October 26, 2011 by stepan7

[stepan7 10]

Just not true. Don't trade certainty for mud.

 

Think about how sub-fractals are introduced.

 

Forums - SnakeEYE`s handicaps

 

 

It's safer to stick to that Spydertrader outlines here in this thread.

It's more practical and profitable.

[xioxxio 10]

It's safer to stick to that Spydertrader outlines here in this thread.

It's more practical and profitable.

 

Agreed and Spyder has pt 2 inside the the same fractal.

[cnms2 10]

Go and re-read the first pages of this thread, and pay attention to spydertrader's drawings!

 

If the through of the B2B or R2R is where the price crosses the old RTL, it means that the point 2 of the new traverse has to be outside the old traverse. If you're tempted to annotate a point 2 inside the old traverse, resist it: either you have an annotation error, or you're about to jump fractals.

 

I suggest to look at all the ET information in historical perspective, and to try not to "interpret" it, or as Jack says: don't invent anything!

[xioxxio 10]

On Jacks clean page #4, you can have pt2 inside the channel, check out the yellow highlighted area.

 

"2.To the right of RTL or in yellow and"

[gamblerKi 10]

On Jacks clean page #4, you can have pt2 inside the channel, check out the yellow highlighted area.

 

"2.To the right of RTL or in yellow and"

 

I think the yellow area refers to location of pt 3.

[stepan7 10]

I see today's ES chart as a good example for recent discussion.

 

St.

[patrader 10]

pay attention to spydertrader's drawings! Excellent advice.I have drawn in some of the more important carryover container info on the attached post.This is why it's so important to have the carryover rtl's extended to the right of your screens(degapping very helpful also) and to use different levels of thickness to show which container each rtl applies to.I also circled the pt 2's of the different container levels that have been previously annotated by spyder.Notice that spyder uses a thicker larger number 2 for the traverse level PT 2.hth

Edited October 27, 2011 by patrader

[patrader 10]

On Jacks clean page #4, you can have pt2 inside the channel, check out the yellow highlighted area.

 

"2.To the right of RTL or in yellow and"

 

Read jack's comments very carefully."Region for pt3 of the forming channel: 1.After FTT and 2.To the right of the RTL or in the yellow".Now look at jack's comments on the "Region for pt2 of the forming channel:1.After FTT and 2.To the right of the RTL".Notice what jack left out in his comments on the Region for pt2(hint its colored yellow).hth

[cnms2 10]

....................................................

Edited October 27, 2011 by cnms2

[ivob 10]

Another video. Just to illustrate how important it is to have the channels correct. If you don't have the channels correct you simply miss things because you don't look for them.

 

regards,

Ivo

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsxHX-7qd9k]channel / trendline trading forex - YouTube[/ame]

[davidt07 10]

Hi Ivob,

 

Thank you very very much for your videos, I love them. I'm having problems with the second video, at 10:54 the second video just stops playing. Is anyone else having this issue also?

 

I'm very interested to hone in my skills with channel line drawings for better execution of trades and understanding volume proceed price action, 'Always".

 

Many thanks

 

David

[Corey 10]

Hi Ivob,

 

Thank you very very much for your videos, I love them. I'm having problems with the second video, at 10:54 the second video just stops playing. Is anyone else having this issue also?

 

I'm very interested to hone in my skills with channel line drawings for better execution of trades and understanding volume proceed price action, 'Always".

 

Many thanks

 

David

try to play directly on youtube also try playing with diff browser.

[ivob 10]

Yes, youtube directly should work. This was actually a very small move/trade. Volatility has been excellent today (100 pip moves) after 2 days of chop. Traders waited for the eurotop to be over before placing their trade. Even up to this moment the moves are great and price behaves textbook JHM. (wait for VE, next bar FTT)

 

regards,

Ivo

 

 

 

 

Hi Ivob,

 

Thank you very very much for your videos, I love them. I'm having problems with the second video, at 10:54 the second video just stops playing. Is anyone else having this issue also?

 

I'm very interested to hone in my skills with channel line drawings for better execution of trades and understanding volume proceed price action, 'Always".

 

Many thanks

 

David

[davidt07 10]

Hi Ivob,

 

Again, thank you for the shared videos. I'm still working my way through this thread! I've only just jumped onto this thread like yesterday and I'm trying to move through all that is taught in each post as quickly as possible.

 

I have a question because I am left a little confused after watching your videos. It seems like your trading style doesn't appear to be taking into account volume or the sequence of volume movements to alert you of a price action change.

 

It appears that you are only using price action, am I correct in my analysis of your trading style or what you are conveying in your videos?

 

There are also a few acronyms that during your presentation that I could not figure out and I've re-read the posts at the beginning of this thread to find out what they are. I am hoping that I can ask you what they are in my next post?

 

Very much appreciated, with many thanks

 

David

[ivob 10]

Hi,

 

I trade forex and forex does not have volume data. (although I could use tick volume)

 

In general big bars are high volume. Small bars are low volume. Also I just watch how the ticks go inside the bar.. (does it move nervous..a lot of ticks..or gradually..etc)

 

Of course you can ask whatever you want...

 

regards,

Ivo

 

 

 

Hi Ivob,

 

Again, thank you for the shared videos. I'm still working my way through this thread! I've only just jumped onto this thread like yesterday and I'm trying to move through all that is taught in each post as quickly as possible.

 

I have a question because I am left a little confused after watching your videos. It seems like your trading style doesn't appear to be taking into account volume or the sequence of volume movements to alert you of a price action change.

 

It appears that you are only using price action, am I correct in my analysis of your trading style or what you are conveying in your videos?

 

There are also a few acronyms that during your presentation that I could not figure out and I've re-read the posts at the beginning of this thread to find out what they are. I am hoping that I can ask you what they are in my next post?

 

Very much appreciated, with many thanks

 

David

[davidt07 10]

Thank you ivob, very much appreciated your openness. I will review your video again and will make some notes. Thank you for your answer regarding the volume, I suppose (as to my understanding of tick data) on Forex (I trade Futures) tick volume wouldn't be too much help as this is not a true representation of true volume.

 

Again to my understanding, Tick or Last, is only a representation of the Last traded price, even though there could have been 10,000 contracts traded at that price, or 100,000. The tick data would just show up as 1 tick which is hardly going to be indicative of true volume.

 

I am wondering, from the subject matter of this thread, regarding Volume Precedes Price always, I am wondering if you have noticed this pattern of B2B 2R 2B etc... with dominant and non-dominant waves and if this has affected your trading strategy in any way.

 

I ask because it seems very clear from your videos that you have a complete and superior grasp of trading with price action, e.g. the annotations of tapes, traverses and trend lines so I therefore wonder if you see any relation or merit in the volume patterns also because maybe, at the risk of sounding like a total noob, I've not been able to see this pattern of Volume Precedes Price always yet. I am just wondering if I am looking at this from the wrong angle and need to adjust my perspective like really hone in my skills to become a Jedi with chart annotating before being able to notice these Volume patterns which supports or precedes price action?

 

Many thanks for reading my ramblings... it's 3:30 am in the morning!

 

David

[Tams 20]

Hi Tams, I am not sure if you have this for the HSI, I quickly extracted it from Bloomberg. It is 1min data, I have used the past 2234 data points.

 

Hi xioxxio:

 

Would you have a current table for ES 5 min?

 

TIA

[ivob 10]

Hi David,

 

I wrote before, some weeks ago, that I don't care very much about volume and that I have found it deceptive. Sometimes I was holding on to positions because volume told me so...yeah right... in the meantime price was not going the right way. I am sorry (@ Spyder) but I find price just a little more important than volume because (changes) in price give me profits.

 

Sure...it probably works. You expect a certain volume with a certain bar size but in the forex market when I see a small bar (depending on the context of course...not somewhere mid-range) and price ticking a lot, very nervously, obviously something is "different"... (small bar...high volume) and the same when I see a big bar moving just a littlebit to "easily"...

 

Of course I still have enough issues to deal with. I still find the RTL and FBO troublesome. I tend to just take profits at RTL...unless price shoots through so fast that it screams BO!

 

If you annotate well....you know what's going on at all times. And remember to "think" upside down....

- price will go up...if it cannot go down anymore and vice versa.

- What wasn't that? By exluding you find the answer.

- make sure you don't lose... --> then you win.

 

One thing that took me a long time was taking market structure in consideration.. what kind of day is it? choppy: look to sell above, buy below. Change happens in the middle. look for FBO..and channels becoming wider and wider... change comes very quickly...(directly after PT3)... Of course the opposite for trending days. On trending days I tend to ignore certain FTT's.

 

regards,

Ivo

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you ivob, very much appreciated your openness. I will review your video again and will make some notes. Thank you for your answer regarding the volume, I suppose (as to my understanding of tick data) on Forex (I trade Futures) tick volume wouldn't be too much help as this is not a true representation of true volume.

 

Again to my understanding, Tick or Last, is only a representation of the Last traded price, even though there could have been 10,000 contracts traded at that price, or 100,000. The tick data would just show up as 1 tick which is hardly going to be indicative of true volume.

 

I am wondering, from the subject matter of this thread, regarding Volume Precedes Price always, I am wondering if you have noticed this pattern of B2B 2R 2B etc... with dominant and non-dominant waves and if this has affected your trading strategy in any way.

 

I ask because it seems very clear from your videos that you have a complete and superior grasp of trading with price action, e.g. the annotations of tapes, traverses and trend lines so I therefore wonder if you see any relation or merit in the volume patterns also because maybe, at the risk of sounding like a total noob, I've not been able to see this pattern of Volume Precedes Price always yet. I am just wondering if I am looking at this from the wrong angle and need to adjust my perspective like really hone in my skills to become a Jedi with chart annotating before being able to notice these Volume patterns which supports or precedes price action?

 

Many thanks for reading my ramblings... it's 3:30 am in the morning!

 

David