Reading Charts in Real Time

[Gabe2004 10]

1) .....Is that filtering trades, or just trading smart?

 

2) .....Is that filtering trades, or just trading smart?

 

3) .....Is that filtering trades, or just trading smart?

 

4) .....Is that filtering trades, or just trading smart?

 

5) .....Is that filtering my trades, or just trading smart?

 

I would call that experience.

 

Gabe

[johnjohn1hew 10]

"[socrates] The process, I said, is not the turning over of an oyster-shell, but the turning round of a soul passing from a day which is little better than night to the true day of being, that is, the ascent from below, which we affirm to be true philosophy?"

 

The most powerful thing i have ever read.

[thalestrader 14]

I don't understand what you mean by "degree of trend" and the words "this pattern is occurring at a very small degree of trend" and then " this approach works at all degrees of swing or degrees of trend".

very small degree of trend <> all degrees of ...... trend.

THis is what I was refering to as a contracdiction.

 

Gabe

 

What is meant by the phrase "Bear Market Rally"?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[Gabe2004 10]

Weekend Reading

 

Hi Folks,

 

Here is an excerpt form Plato's Republic known commonly as the "Allegory of the Cave."

 

For those who want the READER's DIGEST version, here it is:

Allegory of the Cave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

I hope I/we get the message Thales...

Your daughter was never a prisoner.

Back to practicing what we see. In context.

 

Gabe

[thalestrader 14]

For those who want the READER's DIGEST version, here it is

 

You will short circuit your progress and short change yourself by continually looking for short cuts.

 

A summary of Plato written anonymously on a publically edited and editable web site is hardly a substitute for reading Plato for yourself.

 

My degrees are in political philosophy, and my graduate work was on Aristotle and Plato. In fact, it was my first reading of Aritotle's Politics as an undergrad that led me to open my first commodities account. These are difficult, beautiful texts that reveal more and more of themselves (and thus reveal more and more of you to yourself) upon each subsequent reading. I do not share these weekend readings here as a diversion. Each and everything I recommend has a purpose, a lesson, a point.

 

The wonderful thing about what we see happening here in this thread (and by wonderful I mean literally, "full of wonder") is that we see playing out before us the very situation constructed in Plato's story of the cave, including the degree to which we ourselves become accomplices to our own imprisonment.

 

I find it exceedingly interesting that one of our thread participants who has been doing well writes of the power he feels reading Plato directly, while another of our participants, who confesses to be struggling with the trading material, posts a summary of Plato from a source of dubious accuracy. This is the equivalent of putting and indicator between you and price.

 

And thus the wisdom of Plato shines its light on a human nature which, if not eternal, is nonetheless enduring.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Edited November 28, 2009 by thalestrader

[johnjohn1hew 10]

"...But, whether true or false, my opinion is that in the world of knowledge the idea of good appears last of all, and is seen only with an effort; and, when seen, is also inferred to be the universal author of all things beautiful and right, parent of light and of the lord of light in this visible world, and the immediate source of reason and truth in the intellectual; and that this is the power upon which he who would act rationally, either in public or private life must have his eye fixed."

[thalestrader 14]

Why? Because that way he could ground you if you repeatedly ignored his suggested path of learning?

 

For the record, my daughter was never under any threat of punishment, and she was free to give up at any time if she had found the activity boring, uninteresting, or burdensome in any way.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Edited November 28, 2009 by thalestrader

[thalestrader 14]

Dein Englisch ist gut. Sie sollten, um mein Deutsch zu horen.

 

Thank you for your contributions, Marko. I hope you will continue to share with us here.

 

At the age of nine, she is (still) very good at that. She learned much of the world that way.

 

Thales,

I'm quite impressed by this thread. Much of what I read here reflects my own experience, when I try to move my thoughts about trading into another head.

 

P.S. If I get the wording wrong many times, English isn't my mother tongue.

[jonbig04 10]

You will short circuit your progress and short change yourself by continually looking for short cuts.

 

A summary of Plato written anonymously on a publically edited and editable web site is hardly a substitute for reading Plato for yourself.

 

My degrees are in political philosophy, and my graduate work was on Aristotle and Plato. In fact, it was my first reading of Aritotle's Politics as an undergrad that led me to open my first commodities account. These are difficult, beautiful texts that reveal more and more of themselves (and thus reveal more and more of you to yourself) upon each subsequent reading. I do not share these weekend readings here as a diversion. Each and everything I recommend has a purpose, a lesson, point.

 

Coincidentally, I just started a political philosophy online class offered by Yale.

 

Granted, you don't get "credit" for taking it, but having read the Platonic dialogues many times and I thought I understood them well...until I started listening to the lectures on them. The professor does a great job pointing you in the direction Plato is going, without forcing his opinions down your throat.

 

For anyone who is interested: It's located here : Political Science — Open Yale Courses

 

Also, I have been in touch with the professor and was able to get the writing assignments for the class. Let me know if you want them.

 

Back to ES.

 

For me the 15 min chart seems to require too large of a stop, as the waves are larger. On the other hand, the 5 min chart's waves aren't as significant. I try to get around this by using a larger time frame for my primary analysis, that way the 5 min chart is just entry and further confirmation.

 

My primary reason for thinking short is because we are at a major R level and are retesting the hump of a double top.

 

Now we have already seen some rejection from the R area of 1095 and the further confirmation is a LH and a LL (if it happens and I get fill).

 

So my train of thought, for better or worse says "ok We are in a down trend because a double top confirmed, price just pulled back to major R where there is a good chance of rejection. Now price is making a LH and a LL (potentially)."

[johnjohn1hew 10]

Coincidentally, I just started a political philosophy online class offered by Yale.

 

Granted, you don't get "credit" for taking it, but having read the Platonic dialogues many times and I thought I understood them well...until I started listening to the lectures on them. The professor does a great job pointing you in the direction Plato is going, without forcing his opinions down your throat.

 

After reading this, then looking back at my copy of Plato, i instantly read:

 

"But then, if i am right, certain professors of education must be wrong when they say that they can put a knowledge into the soul which was not there before, like sight into blind eyes."

Edited November 28, 2009 by johnjohn1hew

[thalestrader 14]

For me the 15 min chart seems ... as the waves are larger. On the other hand, the 5 min chart's waves aren't as significant.

 

And right there, your reference to the waves and the relative significance of said waves based upon, in this case, two different time frames, shows why you are thriving while others are faltering.

 

I have suggested folks read or re-read the Ed Seykota interview in Market Wizards. Price moves in waves.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[johnjohn1hew 10]

Would anyone have taken a short at the blue line?

 

Gabe

 

Using price action, it is kind of hard to say if one would or wouldn't, but using volume in conjunction with price action i would say no, because declining volume generally means no participation even though price is falling - you would want to see high participation in a move away from a magnet, such as s/r pivots.

 

Edit: Actually, just using price action you would want to see strong trending away from a s/r pivot.

[Gabe2004 10]

You will short circuit your progress and short change yourself by continually looking for short cuts.

 

I am putting in 10-12 hour days into trading since Dec/2007 so short cuts are not exactly what I do

 

A summary of Plato written anonymously on a publically edited and editable web site is hardly a substitute for reading Plato for yourself.

 

 

I read the original article you presented and it did not apeal to me. I read it to the end because of respect to you and the effort you put in to teach us.

The READER's DIGEST version was there for people who don't have the patience or did not understand the idea in the article.

 

My degrees are in political philosophy, Each and everything I recommend has a purpose, a lesson, a point.

 

My degree is in Elelctrical Engineering and somewhere on this site , maybe even on this thread I pointed out that prices move many times in a mechanical fashion (attack and decay).

No one wrote back to comment on my analogy. I wonder why?

Was I offended? No. Just puzzled

 

I find it exceedingly interesting that one of our thread participants who has been doing well writes of the power he feels reading Plato directly, while another of our participants, who confesses to be struggling with the trading material, posts a summary of Plato from a source of dubious accuracy. This is the equivalent of putting and indicator between you and price.

 

The mark of a great teacher is that he/she can convey the message in a clear a picture as possible.

For some of us the picture is still blurred.

This is not to say that you are not a great teacher or that we are stupid.

It is just to say that for some of us the Eureka moment has not come yet.

 

In several occasions you scalded people if the tone of their post was disagreeable with you.

In some cases I agreed with you and in some cases I did not really see the big deal.

Since this is YOUR HOUSE so to speak, I just wanted to tell you that I did not appreciate the personal nature of your reply.

 

Your affinity to Plato is obvious, but not everyone has to like him or be able to understand him.

I also don't think that someone who does not like philosophy will necessarily fail in trading.

 

Respectfully

 

Gabe

[thalestrader 14]

You quite misunderstand the source of my chagrin.

 

I read the original article you presented and it did not apeal to me. I read it to the end because of respect to you and the effort you put in to teach us.

The READER's DIGEST version was there for people who don't have the patience or did not understand the idea in the article ... My degree is in Elelctrical Engineering and somewhere on this site , maybe even on this thread I pointed out that prices move many times in a mechanical fashion (attack and decay). No one wrote back to comment on my analogy. I wonder why?Was I offended? No. Just puzzled ... Your affinity to Plato is obvious, but not everyone has to like him or be able to understand him. I also don't think that someone who does not like philosophy will necessarily fail in trading.

 

Here is a quote from a post I made here at TL back in May, and it is a sentiment of repeated several times:

 

So very true ... As in most areas of life, most folks never take the time to read the original thinker, and instead take watered down derivative thinking for the real thing.

 

I was not offended that someone might not wish to take the time to read what I had posted.

 

I do not care whether anyone here holds Plato in high esteem or not.

 

However, whether I speak of Plato or Baruch, Darvas or O'Neil, Schabacker or Wyckoff, I hold that one owes it to him- or herself to read and study the original, rather than a wikipedia article, a TA of S&C article, or an anonymous internet poster's article about the original.

 

If the reading did not appeal to you, that is fine. If you want to discuss why it does not appeal to you, that too is fine and welcome. But why post a link substituting what someone else says Plato meant rather than allowing the original to stand or fall on its own? After all, you are assuming that whoever the author(s) of the wikipedia article is/are correct in his/her/their interpretation.

 

Now, you never did answer my other question: What is meant by the phrase "bear market rally"?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[Gabe2004 10]

You quite misunderstand the source of my chagrin.

 

 

 

Here is a quote from a post I made here at TL back in May, and it is a sentiment of repeated several times:

 

 

 

I was not offended that someone might not wish to take the time to read what I had posted.

 

I do not care whether anyone here holds Plato in high esteem or not.

 

However, whether I speak of Plato or Baruch, Darvas or O'Neil, Schabacker or Wyckoff, I hold that one owes it to him- or herself to read and study the original, rather than a wikipedia article, a TA of S&C article, or an anonymous internet poster's article about the original.

 

If the reading did not appeal to you, that is fine. If you want to discuss why it does not appeal to you, that too is fine and welcome. But why post a link substituting what someone else says Plato meant rather than allowing the original to stand or fall on its own? After all, you are assuming that whoever the author(s) of the wikipedia article is/are correct in his/her/their interpretation.

 

Now, you never did answer my other question: What is meant by the phrase "bear market rally"?

 

The wattered down version was presented as an alternative to people not reading what you posted at all.

 

I read it but I did not like it. It was too long and criptic.

I'd rather read a detective novle.

I like cut and dry things eventhough I would spend countless hours to solve a problem in my field or field of interest (and so far I solved all of them - that is why it bugs me that trading takes so much longer but I will get there. Sooner or later)

Cut and dry aside, architecure is not cut and dry. It is an art form. So is music and I love both of them.

Philosopy is one of those things that never appealed to me but I like to philosophise. That is, get into discussions about the nuances of different ideas. But I like to do that in modern day English (my mother tounge is not English) and not in a criptic way.

 

Now, you never did answer my other question: What is meant by the phrase "bear market rally"?

 

Sorry, you must confuse me with someone else. I never talked about "bear market rally".

 

Gabe

 

And now back to our regular broadcast

[Kiwi 16]

I made a post a week or so ago about one particular bar that Kiwi referred to as a pin bar. In that post (I'm sure you can find it) I mentioned that if the low of that bar occurred first, followed by a rally t0 the high of that bar, followed by a pullback into the bar's close, I would perhaps have bought a break of that bar's high.

 

I mention that here because in real time, whether I am watching a tick chart or a daily chart, I can see what price is doing. And so can you.

 

However, when discussing dead charts, i.e. discussing price action that occurred in the past, most bar charts give you only a OHLC, and while you know by definition that the open happened first and the close happened last, and you know the range of price during the period of that bar, you do not know anything as to how the market really behaved during that period of time. Since I was discussing a dead chart with MidK, I referred him to the one minute chart of the EJ so that he could, in effect, "reconstruct" the path price was etching out at the time.

 

I know that DbPhoenix has made this point in his threads, and I have reiterated it myself a number of times: Price arriving at an anticipated support level is not in and of itself a buy signal. What matters is what price does when it gets there, how the market behaves. If you go back to last Sunday's open on the EJ, you will see that price pushed down to test the prior day's low, and then rallied, pulled back but held above the session low, and then continued to rally to a new high. This is not the case of "forcing a trade" or looking for "any reason to get long." This is watching price for indications of whether it will hold a support level or break below it.

 

MidK asked in one of his posts why I was not concerned about the "overhead resistance." Well, so long as there is enough daylight between my entry point and that resistance level to allow me to exit either with a profit or at least with a break even stop, and the amount of daylight is equal to our greater than my initial stop loss, then there is enough daylight to cause me to trade so long as that is what price indicates I should do.

 

MidK further commented that if I were concerned about that resistance, I should have been looking for any reason to get short. I never look for any reason to get short or long. I just wait for price to indicate whither it will go. If price rallies strongly into resistance and then trades sideways, I am not thinking short. If price rallies strongly into resistance and then sharply reverses down, I will then start to look for an indication to get short, i.e. a rally that fails to carry higher followed by a resumption of the decline from the high printed at resistance.

 

The point of all this is that time frame doesn't matter. What matters is what price is doing.

 

Price is not invisible, but we seem to make it so.

 

We cut it up into "bars," and we reduce it through mathematical equations and we overlay and occlude it with lines representing not itself but the products, sums, differences, and quotients of our attempted reductions.

 

All you need to do is watch, and by watching you will learn to see price for itself, rather than for what you currently think it is.

 

I have suggested many times now that anyone who wants to learn to trade ought to pick one market, and for one week, maybe two weeks, certainly no more than three weeks, do nothing but watch price action unfold tick by tick on a fifteen minute chart, marking off highs and lows (or what you believe to be highs or lows at the time).

 

Do not trade, just watch.

 

If you do not do this, and you are struggling to understand what I am doing, I can do no more to help you. At some point, you have to help yourself. Do for one week what nearly no one, apparently, is willing to do, and then, if trading is indeed for you, you will find yourself able to live the rest of your life as nearly no one else is able to do.

 

 

 

1) Well, there are certain times during which I will not trade. My approach is technical, and we all know that technical analysis only works in freely traded, liquid markets. As such, I do not trust price's indications during times of relative illiquidity as I do when many more participants are trading, looking to make their daily book. Thus I avoid trading currency futures during the time between the NY close and the Tokyo open. For stocks, I like to initiate most of positions within the first 20 minutes of the open, and while I do occasionally open a trade between 11 AM est and 1 PM est, I generally avoid doing so. Is that filtering trades, or just trading smart?

 

2) I do distinguish between price moving impulsively, making a clear and clean succession of higher highs/higher lows or lower lows/lower highs, versus price chopping around, with a lot overlapping activity. I prefer to trade in the direction of the impulsive moves and I avoid entering during sideways, choppy, overlapping periods. Is that filtering trades, or just trading smart?

 

3) I watch price moves through its levels without regard for the bar or candle being printed on my chart. What matters to me is where price is relative to its most recent high and low, and whether it is breaking to new highs, even within a bar, or breaking to new lows, even within a bar. Is that filtering trades, or just trading smart?

 

4) I do try to enter after the first reaction off of the initial turn from an anticipated support or resistance level, rather than initiating a completely new position after price has already moved 50 or 100 or 150 ticks through a succession of important levels. Is that filtering trades, or just trading smart?

 

5) I trade based upon what I see on my price chart and not upon what my personal opinion concerning the state of the economy, the "value of the market," or what I expect China might do tomorrow. Is that filtering my trades, or just trading smart?

 

All of which, each and every point point, I have stated and demonstrated here in this thread (by the way, Gabe, I was only discussing the GJ because that is the market MidK traded, and I was not suggesting that I watch the EJ and GJ and compare them to make trade decisions - I do not).

 

Finally, MidK has said that the L-H-HL/H-L-LH sequence trigger is, on its own, of not much value. I may be mistaken, but it seems as though he bases that assessment upon a scattering of trades across a number of markets.

 

When I first posted that chart that showed the H-L's and everyone had this "Ahaa" moment, I said that if you simply pick one market and trade every single one of these sequences, using an fixed 15-20 tick stop and a 20-30 tick profit target (I cannot remember exactly the random numbers I used but you get the idea) that you would, over time, be net profitable. The takeaway, of course, which despite my repeated pleadings has been largely ignored, was to focus on one market.

 

Again, I may be mistaken, but MidK seems to have applied himself to trading a sequence or two here and there on multiple pairs. Learn it on one market, and the ability to apply it to multiple markets will follow. Try to learn it on multiple markets, you will likely fail ever to be successful at aplplying it at all.

 

I never said that there would not be losing trades, break even trades, and merely marginally profitable trades, but such an application as Midk's raises the odds of finding a disproportionate number of unfavorable trades. That is, if you take one AU trade, rather than every opportunity the AU presents, will yield a random outcome.

 

I do not want to appear as though I am picking on Midk, and I very much appreciate his sharing his experiences here openly and honestly. Of the seven losing trades he posted, three occurred on the same market (GU) in the same direction (short) while price was making a 150+ pip decline. I've been there. I know exactly how that feels. I have done it more times than I can count. Let me tell you what I learned - if you are repeatedly shorting a falling market and you are still losing money, you are doing something wrong and you need to stop yourself.

 

Finally, the ability to understand the mechanics of reading price action are a necessary but not a sufficient condition of trading success. The ability to do so will mean little without the emotional discipline required to deploy that skill and make a profit.

 

Furthermore, the ability itself will likely remain elusive without the discipline required to sit on your hands and watch and study price action sufficiently. It doesn't take long to learn, but it does take patience and the ability to watch and observe without trading. Here is an excerpt from a post I made not long ago on how I approached the task of teaching my daughter to trade:

 

 

 

The only way for you to come to know price itself from all that you think you know about price is to stop trading and start watching price in a very concentrated and focused manner with the purposeful intent of learning to understand how price behaves, rather than the purpose and distraction of earning an immediate profit.

 

She was very eager and quite willing to to do what I suggested, to read what I suggested, and to sit and watch, and watch, and watch. Furthermore, though I introduced her to the GU and EU initially (as these are the markets I trade, i.e. 6B & 6E), she very quickly established and affinity for the EJ, and a look back at the trades she took that I posted will show that she must have spent a large percentage of her time focused on that one market. But she is only nine years old, and unlike we "older and wiser folks," she did not already come to this "knowing so much that isn't so."

 

This brings me finally to this week's edition of Weekend Reading, which I will post shortly.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

 

 

Now, that was an interesting post Thales.

 

And, yes, if I was programming them into a computer I would call them filters - most would all contribute to a variable that I use that included time of day and the time since the last trade that in Peewee and Peeweefx is called "CanEnterNow."

 

I've got a couple of comments in general about training that I made in a pm to one of the other guys that I think hold. First I agree that Thalesdata (I use the Scandinavian form) benefited from no preconceptions. Then you added a few pattern preconceptions from the books you recommended and I don't believe that the people trying to learn from you here have read those books. Then the training was personal with immediate and real feedback. The damned internet isn't like that ... the teacher doesn't know what the student does ... etc etc.

 

So, what happens is that MK takes what he reads and sees "the important elements" and starts to execute. They may not be the important elements. He might have emphasized something you saw as relatively more minor. He (and pretty much everyone else) might have missed something that you saw as major. But because the feedback loops are so awful the misunderstandings take weeks to become fully apparent.

 

I don't think anyone got the one market component but I agree with you that its really important.

 

IMHO, the internet is a b awful media for training in trading - and might well contribute to the overall success problem.

 

 

The final comment is maybe more interesting. In this post you talk about what I call the stage of the trend or something like that. You alluded to it in your posting of elliott material. Its key to me in what I do because I was influenced ages ago by something called the Floor Trader Method. It is a "trend progression = more demanding entry" strategy and was explored for a bit by NQoos. It is the basis of Peewee and has been the basis of my trading for the last 4 or 5 years.

 

The idea that you want to get in early in the trend is important because eventually each trend at each timeframe will bend. The trick is to be early but not so early that you buy too many abcs in the opposite trend!

 

I attach the floor traders method (save file and directory somewhere then open the file with firefox or ie; the rtf is a summary). This is an old method but works on hsi (peewee) and is about to work on forex (peeweefx) so it is a robust approach. It can be used with its own entries but the thing that I think it offers those following Thales and the exploits of Thalesdata is a concept of trend and trend stage on any timeframe. For what its worth.

 

 

(A note for those who take the time to read the FTM ... you might think of applying FTM on a 1 hour or 4H basis in which case the bar break might well occur at the same time as a 123break on 15m ... and the 123 break might be superior ... or maybe you want both (I haven't explored this, I'm just trying to tie the approaches together).

FTM.zip

[Kiwi 16]

Note:

 

I see Thales used the term degree of trend. FWIW I take trends (periods of flow in one direction) to take place at all timeframes. As you work up from 1m to 5m to 1H to 4H to 1D to 1W the trend degree rises.

 

But the nature of trends remains. For a period at that degree, price tends to flow in one direction before the trend runs out of energy. During the flow it retraces from time to time. But after X retracements, or So long, or reaching resistance for a higher degree of trend it is exhausted. When exhausted it either runs out and reverses or it just does a larger retracement.

 

We all play within trends ... and my personal recommendation is that one be aware of the trend one is trading (and its degree; and how far it is extended) and also the trend and s&r at the next degree (or timeframe). Trends tend to continue until they run into S&R at the next higher degree.

 

Does that make sense Gabe?

[Gabe2004 10]

I don't believe that the people trying to learn from you here have read those books.

 

"There is an exceprion to the rule except for this rule"

 

After Thales's post I bought the STIKKY STOCK CHART book (I had read or have all the other one except for one)

 

I don't think anyone got the one market component but I agree with you that its really important.

 

I was not aware of this but starting next week I will stick to EJ or GU the whole week.

 

Gabe

[thalestrader 14]

Is that such a silly notion that we're all going to assume Thales has occult trading powers without even trying it?

 

I can't tell you how much that last sentence made me laugh!

 

I've said ever since landing here at TL that there are no secrets, nothing to buy, no magic; and yet I get PM's demanding to know what I am "holding back," how someone can "buy my course," and a few who come very close to accusing me of witchcraft.

 

I have given everything in this thread. I can lead a trader to Plato, but I can't make him see its relevance. That you have to do for yourself.

 

Thank you for the excellent post, Richard.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[Gabe2004 10]

Note:

 

I see Thales used the term degree of trend. FWIW I take trends (periods of flow in one direction) to take place at all timeframes. As you work up from 1m to 5m to 1H to 4H to 1D to 1W the trend degree rises.

 

But the nature of trends remains. For a period at that degree, price tends to flow in one direction before the trend runs out of energy. During the flow it retraces from time to time. But after X retracements, or So long, or reaching resistance for a higher degree of trend it is exhausted. When exhausted it either runs out and reverses or it just does a larger retracement.

 

We all play within trends ... and my personal recommendation is that one be aware of the trend one is trading (and its degree; and how far it is extended) and also the trend and s&r at the next degree (or timeframe). Trends tend to continue until they run into S&R at the next higher degree.

 

Does that make sense Gabe?

 

If your definition of degree is what Thales was refering to then I understand his post and yours and yes, it make sense.

If the definition is not the same then i understand yours (thank you) and I would like to understand as well what Thales meant.

 

Gabe

[thalestrader 14]

Sorry, you must confuse me with someone else. I never talked about "bear market rally".

 

No, you didn't. I asked you ...

 

What is meant by the phrase "Bear Market Rally"?

 

in response to this post of yours ...

 

 

I don't understand what you mean by "degree of trend" and the words "this pattern is occurring at a very small degree of trend" and then " this approach works at all degrees of swing or degrees of trend".

very small degree of trend <> all degrees of ...... trend.

THis is what I was refering to as a contracdiction.

[thalestrader 14]

The idea that you want to get in early in the trend is important because eventually each trend at each timeframe will bend. The trick is to be early but not so early that you buy too many abcs in the opposite trend!

 

Exactly. Every "123" as many have taken to calling these sequences is potentially breaking to its terminal extreme and ready to reverse in the direction of the prior or larger trend. Hence my use of a trigger to move my stop to break even.

 

Did you say something similar at the RT Kiwi? Years ago, perhaps? I had a hit of deja vu reading your post.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[Gabe2004 10]

Why? Because that way he could ground you if you repeatedly ignored his suggested path of learning?

 

I don't understand the turn this thread has taken. This will sound harsh, but it sounds like a lot of excuses are starting to surface. Look, even if you are correct, a negative, defeated mindset like this will never lead to any kind of success. I know it's easier for people to attribute elusive and uncommunicable subconscious filters to Thales, but however good that makes you feel, you aren't even one step closer to winning the game.

 

Meanwhile, I don't see any posts from people who have stopped trading and talking about points they liked from the Darvas book or Stikky stock charts, etc. Haven't noticed any photos of printed out charts with S/R drawn in by hand. Maybe his daughter's main advantage was actually following the course Thales laid out? Is that such a silly notion that we're all going to assume Thales has occult trading powers without even trying it?

 

Sorry I missed your reply

Yes maybe a harder hand would help but mainly (just a personal thing) I learn better by watching and interacting verbaly

The personal interaction, and body language are an important part of assimilating the other person's knowledge.

 

As far as the marked charts, some of us started. Not too many and maybe now exactly as one would be expected.

Hopefully this will improve next week.

 

Gabe

[Gabe2004 10]

No, you didn't. I asked you ...

 

 

 

in response to this post of yours ...

 

OK now I understand the connection.

 

A bear market ralley is a temporray change in trend (upwards) in an overall downtrending market.

So if I understand you correctly, the bear trend is one degree and the lower degree is the bear ralley.

 

Right?

 

Gabe

[Gabe2004 10]

I hope my feeling is correct and we are back on topic without the recent friction.

 

Call me sensitive but I don't like confrontations (but once confronted I am not shy )

 

Gabe