Futures I Trade Show & Brooks Book

[mbfromla 10]

I hope you don't think I'm being confrontational but aren't those contradictions?

 

It's my hunch it's the same demographic (winners vs losers) as anywhere (whatever that demographic might be). Do you sincerely believe forums are only frequented by losers? I wonder what your motivation for being here is if that's the case? Personally I don't agree, having got to know a few people behind the screen names I think you might be very surprised.

 

 

 

my P&L or anyone elses P&L has absolutely nothing to do with the veracity of Brooks methods or any other methods. To be honest that whole notion is absurd. Again I am not trying to be confrontational but felt it needed saying.

 

I would like to clarify if i may.

Considering a fact that 95% of people attempting to trade loose money,,does make me belive that most people visiting forums are not profitable.

In my case, i mentioned before that i will be trading this methods on paper untill the end of August.

And my only reason being here, sharing and communicating with people is to make the paper trading and new method learning experience more productive and ease the learning curve, sort of a "study group" with people who have the same goal.

However, lack of motivation and cooperation from people, except a select few, simply made me change my mind. That's all.

Call it selfish, but if i'm trading 2 hours a day, making 4 digits a day, why would i bother posting charts, or sharing what im doing.

Regarding the 3 point gain today, that doesn't mean people who participate this specific forum are profitable traders and make that much every day. In fact, this question was asked in the chat room, out of 12 people i belive only 2 were trading real money.

I'm not defending what i said, simply trying to eliminate misunderstanding.

 

I'm spending over 8 hours a day reading, analyzing historical charts and working on other trading related issues that can improve my overall performance, and if someone could pinpoint things that i see wrong or what i don't see , that mutual effort would be very much welcomed, but lack of it,,,,....

Good luck.

[szubaark 10]

7/15 trend from open type day.

 

2 Trades 2 Wins 0 Losers

 

First Trade was Gap Up B/O Trade for +2.

 

Second Trade was "ii" for +1

 

I stopped after that. I realized this was a strong trend day with the Huge Gap Up and Weak Pullbacks. We dont many like this, but if your read i right, milk it hard.

[BlowFish 10]

I would like to clarify if i may.

 

Thanks for taking the trouble to clarify I am inclined to agree with you that only 5, 10 or maybe 20% (if you buy in to the pareto principle) of people that visit forums make money. I got the impression from your first post that you thought that once people got into those upper echelons they cease to post just leaving the rest. That was what I did not buy into.

 

As a brief aside my own motivations are partly 'social' (it's a solitary profession if you aren't prop shop or working for an institution) I miss that you can't go for a pint after work and talk. I also have an interest in how other people trade and the methods they use, this is completely isrrespective to my own trading and I try and keep it compartmentalised. (Brooks was a bit different because it has a lot in common with my own approach.) I do still sometimes get distracted and end up putting more energy than I should into things. Finally I like to think every now and then I might help someone or present a point of view that is mildly interesting.

 

I think it would be a shame if you stopped posting charts. I am sure your contribution would be missed. All it requires is a single person to post a single comment that triggers an aha moment to make it all worthwhile. Maybe you would consider posting one now and then, or one that is particularly 'tricky'. I always like tricky charts though picture perfect ones can be nice too.

 

There where a couple of things in Brooks' work that I really quite liked. You might even go as far as saying I found important. In the interest of contributing i'll try and make a couple more posts on them though I probably eluded to what they where early in the thread:)

 

As someone that also tends to work kinda obsessively on things I find it is important to work purposefully. Focusing on narrow specific tasks helps me (though I am still inclined just to jump in or get distracted by other elements:))

Edited July 16, 2009 by BlowFish

[jmm 10]

Blowfish Your comments for me were stop on.

Regards John

[BlowFish 10]

Blowfish Your comments for me were stop on.

Regards John

 

I do try like most people, sometimes if I get out of the wrong side of bed I can be a bit prickly.

 

The first 'important' thing is the 'with trend' idea. It's pretty much the same idea as trader Vic's 123. Until you get a trend line break and and a retest of the extreme trades in the direction of the trend are going to be much safer. No big secret its been mentioned several times in the thread. Of course if there is S/R there too so much the better.

 

The second thing is the idea of 'failures' and the almost tacit assumption that the first time anything is tried it is more likely to fail than succeed. This directly leads to several of his trade ideas the one I liked the most is fading the micro trend line break.

 

Lunch time so Im going to call a halt there for now

[ACS 10]

Just noticed (late as usual) that the first bar this morning in the ES was an H4 setup of a two legged correction from yesterday's high and very similar to the one on Tuesday morning.

[szubaark 10]

ACS yes those have been working lately. Almost any trade above/below first Open bar gives you scalpers profit. Lets see when it Stops working LOL

[rangerdoc 13]

I noticed that in the webinar "A Month of Great Trades", Al skipped quickly over several slides.

I extracted all the slides and saved them as a PDF for those who wish to review them.

A Month of Great Trades - Slides.pdf

[szubaark 10]

7/16

 

8 trades 5 W 2L 1 BE

Daily Goal reached

 

4th trade was a Failed Final Flag that i missed

 

Longs worked really well after the 2pm breakout from Range. lots of people didnt catch it as everyone was talking today will be Small Range Day. WRONG!

[Guest Maletor]

Trade 1 was an L1 short. Felt like a breakout pullback from LOD, certainly didn't trade like one. Came after a doji, any other reasons not to take this trade? (Traders took the H2, and the trapped L1s [myself] covered and brought the market back up).

 

2 - breakout pullback, H1, reversal bar failure, micro trendline break.

 

3 - H1, probably not the best trade of the day, but with trend and looked good enough to me.

 

4 - trendline broke, looking for two legs down, H2 at HOD, after a doji

 

In theory I could have taken the reversal bar short on the next bar since that is where the longs exited who just brought the market up.

 

My question is: Is the HOD a higher high test after a trendline break?

[mbfromla 10]

My question is: Is the HOD a higher high test after a trendline break?

 

Don't really understand your question bud, HOD means High Of The Day, it can be anything as long as it's a new high price for the day.

[Guest Maletor]

There was a trendline break on the three bear bars from 14:55 - 15:05.

 

I'm trying to envision what a trend reversal looks like. The trendline break and the test of the extreme, be it a higher high or lower high in the case of a bull trend reversing to bear.

 

Should the test of the 14:50 high at the HOD be considered a higher high test of that extreme? If so, are we looking for two legs down, which seem to have taken place at the EOD, or are we looking at a trend reversal?

 

Perhaps I'm in that mentality of "We've gone so far, how can we possibly go further". I need to just be thinking with trend.

[szubaark 10]

Trade 1 was an L1 short. Felt like a breakout pullback from LOD, certainly didn't trade like one. Came after a doji, any other reasons not to take this trade? (Traders took the H2, and the trapped L1s [myself] covered and brought the market back up).

 

2 - breakout pullback, H1, reversal bar failure, micro trendline break.

 

3 - H1, probably not the best trade of the day, but with trend and looked good enough to me.

 

4 - trendline broke, looking for two legs down, H2 at HOD, after a doji

 

In theory I could have taken the reversal bar short on the next bar since that is where the longs exited who just brought the market up.

 

My question is: Is the HOD a higher high test after a trendline break?

 

I see we BOTH got caught on Trade #1. sure looked like a good setup. Loys of people got trapped as u can see by the size of the next bar

 

Trade#2 i didnt take. Was afraid of High of Day BW

[RichardTodd 10]

Trade 1 was an L1 short. Felt like a breakout pullback from LOD, certainly didn't trade like one. Came after a doji, any other reasons not to take this trade? (Traders took the H2, and the trapped L1s [myself] covered and brought the market back up).

 

I think Brooks talks somewhere about outside bars being trading ranges, and so far I'm finding it can pay off to treat most wide range bars like a Brooks "trading range." Especially if it's not followed by more trend bars in the same direction. I wonder if anyone else has the same experience?

 

Anyway, that 9:05 (central time) bar was relatively wide. So, if I take the "trading range" perspective, the pullback entry would be too close to the bottom of the range. Brooks seems to emphasize quite a bit not to go short at bottoms of ranges. (at least in the parts of the book I've read so far)

 

The only other observation I can make is that the moving average was flat and right in the middle of the action during the morning, which to me says there's no local trend, and the overall daily trend is decidedly up right now. So, a downside breakout would be a countertrend play, no? Also something Brooks seems pretty strict about avoiding, as far as I can tell.

 

I'm not sure how helpful that is or not because I haven't finished reading the book and I've only traded my best imitation of his method a couple times for fun. In particular I haven't read the chapter about the opening hour, so maybe he says countertrend breakouts are ok to take. But, what I said makes sense to me, for whatever that's worth.

 

Other examples of wide-range bar "trading ranges" would be the 10:35 bar from the 13th (can be treated like a range break-out that you'd hold off on until it tests the top of the bar's range before going further up), or the 9:00 and 9:15 bars on the 10th.

[Guest Maletor]

Brooks sometimes trades breakout pullbacks early, as in they didn't break the S/R level exactly, if the move is powerful with heavy momentum.

 

There are some examples in the book.

[RichardTodd 10]

I have been going over some Brooksian-style analysis in our live room today. Trying to get everyone I can to at least look at the book, in case it fits their personality. I thought I'd show you the way I've been calling it today thus far. Any comments are appreciated, because I'm no Brooks expert. I just try to ape the basic principles as I understand them so far, so please tell me what I'm doing wrong.

 

 

Basically, I've seen today as a big trading range so far, and except for scalping the opening move down, I've been watching for the failed breakouts. To me, you can spot the range either through all the sideways overlapping candles, or by knowing the S/R from overnight, or just by noting that the MA is flat and in the middle of the action. Seems to be working ok. If I see a breakout that retests the breakout and runs, I'll start looking for trend plays.

[forrestang 10]

I have been going over some Brooksian-style analysis in our live room today. Trying to get everyone I can to at least look at the book, in case it fits their personality. I thought I'd show you the way I've been calling it today thus far. Any comments are appreciated, because I'm no Brooks expert. I just try to ape the basic principles as I understand them so far, so please tell me what I'm doing wrong.

 

[ATTACH]12229[/ATTACH]

 

Basically, I've seen today as a big trading range so far, and except for scalping the opening move down, I've been watching for the failed breakouts. To me, you can spot the range either through all the sideways overlapping candles, or by knowing the S/R from overnight, or just by noting that the MA is flat and in the middle of the action. Seems to be working ok. If I see a breakout that retests the breakout and runs, I'll start looking for trend plays.

 

There was the good breakout trade at the open that was a good short. And I've noticed that the first reversal bar in the a.m. is usually good for at least a scalp which it was.

[ACS 10]

I have been going over some Brooksian-style analysis in our live room today. Trying to get everyone I can to at least look at the book, in case it fits their personality. I thought I'd show you the way I've been calling it today thus far. Any comments are appreciated, because I'm no Brooks expert. I just try to ape the basic principles as I understand them so far, so please tell me what I'm doing wrong.

 

[ATTACH]12229[/ATTACH]

 

Basically, I've seen today as a big trading range so far, and except for scalping the opening move down, I've been watching for the failed breakouts. To me, you can spot the range either through all the sideways overlapping candles, or by knowing the S/R from overnight, or just by noting that the MA is flat and in the middle of the action. Seems to be working ok. If I see a breakout that retests the breakout and runs, I'll start looking for trend plays.

 

So far the range call looks good. The problems I see are that the failure at the bottom, despite the overshoot, was a bad looking (bear doji instead of bull trend) reversal bar and the failure at the top never gave a second entry.

[bakrob99 11]

Your chart and trade locations look good to me. The bottom Long setup did not show a Trendline break which Brooks likes to see ... but this on this OEX range day those entries would have worked nicely.

[RichardTodd 10]

Your chart and trade locations look good to me. The bottom Long setup did not show a Trendline break which Brooks likes to see ... but this on this OEX range day those entries would have worked nicely.

 

They worked well, for sure. I think at least a few in my audience were impressed enough to check out the book, which is what I wanted. I try to get people to investigate as many trading styles as they can.

 

I just wasn't positive everything I did would be Brooks-approved... I try to distill it to the basics... doji vs trend bar, trend vs. trading range. Stay with the trend, fade the range. I have yet to go labelling my bars H1 H3 etc. To be honest, that part kinda confuses me.

 

Does Brooks call for a trendline break to reverse in a trading range? I thought any range breakout failure was fair game?

 

 

So far the range call looks good. The problems I see are that the failure at the bottom, despite the overshoot, was a bad looking (bear doji instead of bull trend) reversal bar and the failure at the top never gave a second entry.

 

Thanks for your feedback. Yes, it was a doji candle, true enough. I'll have to ponder that. Still not sure why everyone is talking about trend overshoots in a trading range, though. The three candles prior to the reversal bar nearly completely overlap, and to my way of thinking the first three 5-minute bars form a usable "opening range" regardless.

 

Do I need a second entry on a range breakout failure? I thought Brooks would pretty much fade the breakouts on the first failure, right?

 

Or is it that I am seeing this all as a range, and you all see trends inside it?

 

 

There was the good breakout trade at the open that was a good short. And I've noticed that the first reversal bar in the a.m. is usually good for at least a scalp which it was.

 

If they correspond with overnight S/R zones, I often scalp them as well.

 

 

Anyway, thank you for your feedback, and any clarification (even if you just point me to the right chapter in the book I can do the work) on needing a trendline break to take a failed range breakout would be appreciated.

 

I got long again at 933 off the 11:00 central time bar, after yet another breakdown failure on the 10:50 central time candle. To me, the 10:50 candle was too tall (reaching the 20ema) to take safely, so I waited. I guess this is another case of me getting in off a doji bar rather than a trend bar, like ACS points out. I need to think on this further, from a Brooks perspective. I know I saw somewhere in the book a case or two where he did a similar thing (saying something like "a tiny trading range at the bottom of a bigger trading range" was ok... too much info in that book, and not very well organized imho). Now I'm done for the day.

[monad 10]

Personally find taking account of premarket action and S/R levels provide better trade location.

 

Attached:

 

1. premarket uptrend line break, with 2 legged downmove, good long at A

 

2. Test of previous swing high around 937 expected, failure to breakout, resulting in pullback, good short at B.

[forrestang 10]

I try to get people to investigate as many trading styles as they can.

 

I just wasn't positive everything I did would be Brooks-approved... I try to distill it to the basics... doji vs trend bar, trend vs. trading range. Stay with the trend, fade the range. I have yet to go labelling my bars H1 H3 etc. To be honest, that part kinda confuses me.

 

Does Brooks call for a trendline break to reverse in a trading range? I thought any range breakout failure was fair game?

 

Do I need a second entry on a range breakout failure? I thought Brooks would pretty much fade the breakouts on the first failure, right?

 

As I see it, whatever works for you. Wether it's Brooks completely, or if you just take what you like from that collection of work. Probably really no need to label everything either, just a good exercise if you're just sitting there, might as well.

 

As for TL to reverse a range, I don't think so. You just want to find small bars at the top or bottom of a range. It wouldn't make sense to enter a long bar that would put your entry at the middle of the range. It would require too big a stop and you might not even make it to the other side.

 

1st and 2nd entries in the range, I've seen examples of both in the book. This part is a bit ambiguous.....First entries with a good reversal bar are fine, a second entry is even better.

[RichardTodd 10]

FWIW, here's how I would have analyzed yesterday from my basic Brooksian perspective. Disclaimer, I just now marked this up and didn't trade it. But it's consistent with what I did today in realtime. Pretty sparse, no? As long as the MA stays in the middle of the action, I am just looking for range breakouts to fail. Perhaps with more practice I could do more sophisticated labelling and get more out of the inside of the movements.

 

 

My impression of the Brooks stuff so far, is that it encourages people to assign so much significance to every bar that they start missing the forest for all the trees. As an indicator guy, I find myself leaning on that single MA quite a bit to remind me that--no matter how interesting the bars look--there is no local trend a lot of the time.

[bakrob99 11]

 

Does Brooks call for a trendline break to reverse in a trading range? I thought any range breakout failure was fair game?

 

I believe it's okay if you are far enough from the EMA AND you have a Bull or Bear bar form.

 

I just remember somewhere he has said that he wouldn't take some #-trades without there being a TL break, especially in strong trending markets.

[ibherewd40 10]

Whew, glad option week is done

 

 

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