DAX Future (FDAX) Day Trading

[rigel 10]

Even on Ftse the vol. on the bid/offer ladder is between 20-40 most of the time, same as dax. unlike Eurostoxx where it is 500-1000+

[BlowFish 10]

Even on Ftse the vol. on the bid/offer ladder is between 20-40 most of the time, same as dax. unlike Eurostoxx where it is 500-1000+

 

I'm not sure what your point is to be honest? Volume traded is linked to short term volatility it's not really that important unless you trade size. There are also other contributing factors (like granularity and contract value). The trouble with the DAX is those orders will get pulled on occasion. Really you need to trade both and see how they behave for the size you trade. DAX I have had 6 points slippage (possibly more can't remember) FTSE I cant recall more than 2. Thats 150 euros vs. 20 quid. The FTSE has similar characteristics but it is smaller and has (a little) less short term volatility. It's range (in $$) for any period is also significantly less than the DAX (though not as as small as ESTX).

 

The key variables (imo) are your risk reward parameters and the period you wish to focus on to obtain the R:R. Pick an instrument that meats those criteria. i.e pick an instrument who's average movement (in $$) allows you to meet your R:R parameters (size of stop in particular) for the time you want to trade. You might need to think about size and transaction costs. (Thats also something to consider trading the ESTX).

[rigel 10]

I'm not sure what your point is to be honest?

Pick an instrument that meats those criteria. i.e pick an instrument who's average movement (in $$) allows you to meet your R:R parameters (size of stop in particular) for the time you want to trade. You might need to think about size and transaction costs. (Thats also something to consider trading the ESTX).

 

Just stating facts for shortbleu, as he was debating between Dax and Eurostoxx.

 

Am relative newcomer to the forum but not to trading;)

[BlowFish 10]

Sure, didn't want to sound confronational . It's just that it's the volatility (that is partly caused by that low volume) is the more important factor. (imho of course!)

 

Anyway another option that might make sense for the OP (if it's available in France) is spread betting. One of the advantages is greater flexibility in position sizing. Of course there are a few things to be aware of before going down that route.

[shortbleu 10]

Hi all,

 

Rigel, I traded the DAX a few times in the mornings, and always succesfully.

From 8.00am London time onwards as you're right when you say it's very calm between 7.00 and 8.00.

I do not do simulations, real only. I enter positions on limit order so no slippage or very small. I cut losses short on market order so slippage can be bigger, I loose the spread when I exit losing positions, and this varies between 0.5pt and 1.5pt. My winners can be big, over 20pts. I let profits run and cut losses short.

 

Question for your guys. I can't always trade the dax in the morning as I am in the UK and work full time. I am not sure yet if it's worth or not to trade the DAX after work, between 7.00pm and 9.00pm London time, but I am really not sure as volatility is low at that time, so I am really disgusted :crap:.

 

Any idea of a future market to trade between 7.00pm and 11.30pm london time. Eminis do not have a great nominal sir commission ration compared to dax. Eg for emini S&P: nominal = 900pts * 50 usd= 45000 usd

commission RT = 4.8usd

ratio = 45000 /4.8 = 9375.

 

Eg for DAX: 5000pts * 25 eur = 125000 eur

commission RT = 3.5eur

ratio = 125000/3.5 = 35714, great ratio.

 

I am looking to trade something with a ratio superior to 20000, so eminis would not do the trick. Also, nominal needs to be inferior or equal to 140K eur or equivalent because my capital does not allow me to trader bigger size (money management).

 

So what can I trade between 7.00 and 11.30pm london time with ratio > 20000 and nominal <= 140k eur or equivalent currency?

 

I might create a new post to answer this question but wanted to have your advice first?

 

Thanks

[shortbleu 10]

what do you think about big nasdaq?

1400pts * 100 usd= 140000usd

4.8usd commission

ratio = 140000 / 4.8 = 29166

 

Looks OK?

[shortbleu 10]

Please help:helloooo:

[Tams 20]

what do you think about big nasdaq?

1400pts * 100 usd= 140000usd

4.8usd commission

ratio = 140000 / 4.8 = 29166

 

Looks OK?

 

 

 

you should also look at liquidity, trading range, and slippage.

 

 

liquidity lets you get in and out of the market,

 

trading range is your profitability,

 

slippage is your cost of doing business.

[flyingdutchmen 10]

there is more to trading than only cheap commissions, if that is all you

are after go trade porkbelly future's if you are looking for a good ratio only.

your commssion calculations is not the priority of most of us here;

there are many people willing to help you as they did in this tread

but do not expect someone to tell you what you should trade as

we all are different individuals and trade different markets for many

various reasons other than commission only.

find a market which you are able to master and suits you well.

good luck

[shortbleu 10]

I fully agree that commission is only a factor amongst others.

Could you tell me what is the liquidity like on the Nasdaq 100 future at usd100/pt?

Is that easy to get in and out? I like the Dax and look for a similar equity index future with high volatility, big average true range and low commission.

NQ100 looks good.

[BlowFish 10]

What you are describing is the DAX. Remind me again why you don't want to trade that? The Russel used to be the US index most like the DAX but I haven't traded it since it moved exchanges.

[BlowFish 10]

Could you tell me what is the liquidity like on the Nasdaq 100 future at usd100/pt?

 

 

Fine for your size account.

[BlowFish 10]

I am not sure yet if it's worth or not to trade the DAX after work, between 7.00pm and 9.00pm London time, but I am really not sure as volatility is low at that time, so I am really disgusted :crap:.

 

 

Just noticed that time requirement 7-9 any of the US indexes will do, try and find one that fits or just trade the DAX. 9-11 is probably the worse time of day to trade as US is closed and Asia hasn't opened yet. The worse time in the whole 24 hour period imho.

[shortbleu 10]

Hello Blowfish,

I love the Dax and traded it successfully in the mornings a few times while I was on holidays but I am back to work now with a full time job and can only trade the Dax in the mornings while on holidays.

I am back from work and at home any time between 7.00pm and 8.00pm London time and this leaves me just 1 or two hours to trade the dax in the vening which is not great because 1) volatility is low between 7pm and 9pm london time, 2) if I have only one hour to trade before the exchange closes, I might be tempted to overtrade, jump on anything and this is not good for the P&L. I would be looking for something I can trade for 3-4 hours in row, potentially.

 

Question, it's 1.50am london time here and I have trading platform opened.

The emini ES is liquid liquid right now with volume of 6600 already

but the Nasdaq100 full size is not liquid at all, there is a bid and an offer of 1 lot on the bid and 1 lot on the offer, spread is 1365.75 1367.50, very large!!!

Why is that? Looks untradable and volume is zero!:crap:

[sevensa 10]

Hello Blowfish,

I love the Dax and traded it successfully in the mornings a few times while I was on holidays but I am back to work now with a full time job and can only trade the Dax in the mornings while on holidays.

I am back from work and at home any time between 7.00pm and 8.00pm London time and this leaves me just 1 or two hours to trade the dax in the vening which is not great because 1) volatility is low between 7pm and 9pm london time, 2) if I have only one hour to trade before the exchange closes, I might be tempted to overtrade, jump on anything and this is not good for the P&L. I would be looking for something I can trade for 3-4 hours in row, potentially.

 

Question, it's 1.50am london time here and I have trading platform opened.

The emini ES is liquid liquid right now with volume of 6600 already

but the Nasdaq100 full size is not liquid at all, there is a bid and an offer of 1 lot on the bid and 1 lot on the offer, spread is 1365.75 1367.50, very large!!!

Why is that? Looks untradable and volume is zero!:crap:

 

I know I am not answering the question you have asked, but I am wondering why you want to daytrade if you don't have time for it? Why are you trying to force a solution, instead of doing EOD trading from daily bars until you can afford to quit and then have all day to daytrade?

[rigel 10]

I think it has already been pointed out there is enough liquidity on Eurostoxx to trade between 7-9p.m GMT.

There are some great runs in prices going into the close on the US markets and sometimes even larger than the morning sessions and Euro markets move in tandem,

even Dax or Ftse can be traded at that time.

 

Russell (TF) on ICE is another market available for trading with decent moves as well and being $100 a point would suit the ratio you are looking for.

Dbphoenix on the wyckoff forum trades Nasdaq, perhaps you could pose the question to him.

[BlowFish 10]

The problem will be 9.0 to 11.00 pm. Pretty much nothing is moving then it seems to me (for reasons previously stated).

 

Do you have any flexibility in your work hours? If you have found a profitable niche personally I would lean on it. Of course I don't know your circumstances or reasons for working but if you can eek a few points out of the DAX each day you have a comfortable living right there. (I can certainly appreciate, and would recommend caution before going down that path).

 

have you traded the Russell on ICE rigel? As I said a couple of posts ago I have not since it moved. I hear its pretty similar to the old days.

[rigel 10]

Same here, switched my focus to Eurostoxx when TF moved to ICE, but lately have started study of TF charts and have observed pretty decent moves of approx18-20pts, and volume as well. and the market is in sync with the big brother ES most of the time.

[programmer 10]

Naked POC 4747.

Looks good r/r down.

[rigel 10]

Presume you are referring to the congestion area of 13-18th May,

Think came across the term "naked" or virgin on Nqoos website.

 

Not quite sure what is r/r down though. Do you mean expect support and or a drive to that price level.

[programmer 10]

Presume you are referring to the congestion area of 13-18th May,

Think came across the term "naked" or virgin on Nqoos website.

 

Not quite sure what is r/r down though. Do you mean expect support and or a drive to that price level.

 

Naked poc - i.e. Poc not touched post its creation will attract price with a good setup (your choice), unfortunately the news kicked in...

[AgeKay 10]

I originally heard the DAX being chatted up on many boards, most people sounding like pros, then I read in Trader Monthly magazine that a trader under 30 traded 250,00 contracts in a day.

 

I guess this trader was not trading the FDAX since there isn't even that much volume traded there. Do you know which markets s/he was trading?

[BlowFish 10]

Maybe you are thinking of Paul Rotter aka 'the flipper'? He actually traded the Bund mainly and the Bobl and Shatz, all trade on Eurex too.

[AgeKay 10]

Maybe you are thinking of Paul Rotter aka 'the flipper'? He actually traded the Bund mainly and the Bobl and Shatz, all trade on Eurex too.

 

Paul Rotter did 250k round turns on his best days and that was at a time where he had positions that could be 10k contracts. I can't imagine anyone doing that today. He'd be like 25% of the market on high volume days or 50% on average days.

[BlowFish 10]

In those days too. Interesting guy that's for sure.