Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

shortbleu

DAX Future (FDAX) Day Trading

Recommended Posts

  rigel said:
Even on Ftse the vol. on the bid/offer ladder is between 20-40 most of the time, same as dax. unlike Eurostoxx where it is 500-1000+

 

I'm not sure what your point is to be honest? :) Volume traded is linked to short term volatility it's not really that important unless you trade size. There are also other contributing factors (like granularity and contract value). The trouble with the DAX is those orders will get pulled on occasion. Really you need to trade both and see how they behave for the size you trade. DAX I have had 6 points slippage (possibly more can't remember) FTSE I cant recall more than 2. Thats 150 euros vs. 20 quid. The FTSE has similar characteristics but it is smaller and has (a little) less short term volatility. It's range (in $$) for any period is also significantly less than the DAX (though not as as small as ESTX).

 

The key variables (imo) are your risk reward parameters and the period you wish to focus on to obtain the R:R. Pick an instrument that meats those criteria. i.e pick an instrument who's average movement (in $$) allows you to meet your R:R parameters (size of stop in particular) for the time you want to trade. You might need to think about size and transaction costs. (Thats also something to consider trading the ESTX).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  BlowFish said:
I'm not sure what your point is to be honest? :)

Pick an instrument that meats those criteria. i.e pick an instrument who's average movement (in $$) allows you to meet your R:R parameters (size of stop in particular) for the time you want to trade. You might need to think about size and transaction costs. (Thats also something to consider trading the ESTX).

 

Just stating facts for shortbleu, as he was debating between Dax and Eurostoxx.

 

Am relative newcomer to the forum but not to trading;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, didn't want to sound confronational :D. It's just that it's the volatility (that is partly caused by that low volume) is the more important factor. (imho of course!)

 

Anyway another option that might make sense for the OP (if it's available in France) is spread betting. One of the advantages is greater flexibility in position sizing. Of course there are a few things to be aware of before going down that route.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

 

Rigel, I traded the DAX a few times in the mornings, and always succesfully.

From 8.00am London time onwards as you're right when you say it's very calm between 7.00 and 8.00.

I do not do simulations, real only. I enter positions on limit order so no slippage or very small. I cut losses short on market order so slippage can be bigger, I loose the spread when I exit losing positions, and this varies between 0.5pt and 1.5pt. My winners can be big, over 20pts. I let profits run and cut losses short.

 

Question for your guys. I can't always trade the dax in the morning as I am in the UK and work full time. I am not sure yet if it's worth or not to trade the DAX after work, between 7.00pm and 9.00pm London time, but I am really not sure as volatility is low at that time, so I am really disgusted :crap:.

 

Any idea of a future market to trade between 7.00pm and 11.30pm london time. Eminis do not have a great nominal sir commission ration compared to dax. Eg for emini S&P: nominal = 900pts * 50 usd= 45000 usd

commission RT = 4.8usd

ratio = 45000 /4.8 = 9375.

 

Eg for DAX: 5000pts * 25 eur = 125000 eur

commission RT = 3.5eur

ratio = 125000/3.5 = 35714, great ratio.

 

I am looking to trade something with a ratio superior to 20000, so eminis would not do the trick. Also, nominal needs to be inferior or equal to 140K eur or equivalent because my capital does not allow me to trader bigger size (money management).

 

So what can I trade between 7.00 and 11.30pm london time with ratio > 20000 and nominal <= 140k eur or equivalent currency?

 

I might create a new post to answer this question but wanted to have your advice first?

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  shortbleu said:
what do you think about big nasdaq?

1400pts * 100 usd= 140000usd

4.8usd commission

ratio = 140000 / 4.8 = 29166

 

Looks OK?

 

 

 

you should also look at liquidity, trading range, and slippage.

 

 

liquidity lets you get in and out of the market,

 

trading range is your profitability,

 

slippage is your cost of doing business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there is more to trading than only cheap commissions, if that is all you

are after go trade porkbelly future's if you are looking for a good ratio only.

your commssion calculations is not the priority of most of us here;

there are many people willing to help you as they did in this tread

but do not expect someone to tell you what you should trade as

we all are different individuals and trade different markets for many

various reasons other than commission only.

find a market which you are able to master and suits you well.

good luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fully agree that commission is only a factor amongst others.

Could you tell me what is the liquidity like on the Nasdaq 100 future at usd100/pt?

Is that easy to get in and out? I like the Dax and look for a similar equity index future with high volatility, big average true range and low commission.

NQ100 looks good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you are describing is the DAX. Remind me again why you don't want to trade that? The Russel used to be the US index most like the DAX but I haven't traded it since it moved exchanges.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  shortbleu said:
I am not sure yet if it's worth or not to trade the DAX after work, between 7.00pm and 9.00pm London time, but I am really not sure as volatility is low at that time, so I am really disgusted :crap:.

 

 

Just noticed that time requirement 7-9 any of the US indexes will do, try and find one that fits or just trade the DAX. 9-11 is probably the worse time of day to trade as US is closed and Asia hasn't opened yet. The worse time in the whole 24 hour period imho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Blowfish,

I love the Dax and traded it successfully in the mornings a few times while I was on holidays but I am back to work now with a full time job and can only trade the Dax in the mornings while on holidays.

I am back from work and at home any time between 7.00pm and 8.00pm London time and this leaves me just 1 or two hours to trade the dax in the vening which is not great because 1) volatility is low between 7pm and 9pm london time, 2) if I have only one hour to trade before the exchange closes, I might be tempted to overtrade, jump on anything and this is not good for the P&L. I would be looking for something I can trade for 3-4 hours in row, potentially.

 

Question, it's 1.50am london time here and I have trading platform opened.

The emini ES is liquid liquid right now with volume of 6600 already

but the Nasdaq100 full size is not liquid at all, there is a bid and an offer of 1 lot on the bid and 1 lot on the offer, spread is 1365.75 1367.50, very large!!!

Why is that? Looks untradable and volume is zero!:crap:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  shortbleu said:
Hello Blowfish,

I love the Dax and traded it successfully in the mornings a few times while I was on holidays but I am back to work now with a full time job and can only trade the Dax in the mornings while on holidays.

I am back from work and at home any time between 7.00pm and 8.00pm London time and this leaves me just 1 or two hours to trade the dax in the vening which is not great because 1) volatility is low between 7pm and 9pm london time, 2) if I have only one hour to trade before the exchange closes, I might be tempted to overtrade, jump on anything and this is not good for the P&L. I would be looking for something I can trade for 3-4 hours in row, potentially.

 

Question, it's 1.50am london time here and I have trading platform opened.

The emini ES is liquid liquid right now with volume of 6600 already

but the Nasdaq100 full size is not liquid at all, there is a bid and an offer of 1 lot on the bid and 1 lot on the offer, spread is 1365.75 1367.50, very large!!!

Why is that? Looks untradable and volume is zero!:crap:

 

I know I am not answering the question you have asked, but I am wondering why you want to daytrade if you don't have time for it? Why are you trying to force a solution, instead of doing EOD trading from daily bars until you can afford to quit and then have all day to daytrade?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it has already been pointed out there is enough liquidity on Eurostoxx to trade between 7-9p.m GMT.

There are some great runs in prices going into the close on the US markets and sometimes even larger than the morning sessions and Euro markets move in tandem,

even Dax or Ftse can be traded at that time.

 

Russell (TF) on ICE is another market available for trading with decent moves as well and being $100 a point would suit the ratio you are looking for.

Dbphoenix on the wyckoff forum trades Nasdaq, perhaps you could pose the question to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem will be 9.0 to 11.00 pm. Pretty much nothing is moving then it seems to me (for reasons previously stated).

 

Do you have any flexibility in your work hours? If you have found a profitable niche personally I would lean on it. Of course I don't know your circumstances or reasons for working but if you can eek a few points out of the DAX each day you have a comfortable living right there. (I can certainly appreciate, and would recommend caution before going down that path).

 

have you traded the Russell on ICE rigel? As I said a couple of posts ago I have not since it moved. I hear its pretty similar to the old days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same here, switched my focus to Eurostoxx when TF moved to ICE, but lately have started study of TF charts and have observed pretty decent moves of approx18-20pts, and volume as well. and the market is in sync with the big brother ES most of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Presume you are referring to the congestion area of 13-18th May,

Think came across the term "naked" or virgin on Nqoos website.

 

Not quite sure what is r/r down though. Do you mean expect support and or a drive to that price level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  rigel said:
Presume you are referring to the congestion area of 13-18th May,

Think came across the term "naked" or virgin on Nqoos website.

 

Not quite sure what is r/r down though. Do you mean expect support and or a drive to that price level.

 

Naked poc - i.e. Poc not touched post its creation will attract price with a good setup (your choice), unfortunately the news kicked in...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  bathrobe said:

I originally heard the DAX being chatted up on many boards, most people sounding like pros, then I read in Trader Monthly magazine that a trader under 30 traded 250,00 contracts in a day.

 

I guess this trader was not trading the FDAX since there isn't even that much volume traded there. Do you know which markets s/he was trading?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  BlowFish said:
Maybe you are thinking of Paul Rotter aka 'the flipper'? He actually traded the Bund mainly and the Bobl and Shatz, all trade on Eurex too.

 

Paul Rotter did 250k round turns on his best days and that was at a time where he had positions that could be 10k contracts. I can't imagine anyone doing that today. He'd be like 25% of the market on high volume days or 50% on average days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 1st April 2025.   Will Gold’s Rally Hold Strong as New Trade Tariffs Take Effect Tomorrow?   Gold continues to increase in value for a sixth consecutive day and is trading more than 17% higher in 2025. Amid fear of higher inflation, a recession and the tariffs war escalating investors continue to invest into Gold pushing demand higher. The trade policy from April 2nd onwards continues to be a key factor for the whole market. Can Gold maintain its upward trend? Trade Policy From Tomorrow Onwards Starting as soon as tomorrow, a 25% tariff will be imposed on all passenger cars imported into the United States. While this White House policy is anticipated to negatively affect European industrial performance, it will also lead to higher transportation and maintenance costs for everyday American taxpayers. The negative impact expected on both the EU and US is one of the reasons investors continue to buy Gold. Additionally, last month, President Donald Trump announced reciprocal sanctions against any trade partners that impose import restrictions on US goods. Furthermore, tariffs on products from Canada and the EU could increase even more if they attempt to coordinate a response. Overall, investors continue to worry that new trade barriers will prompt retaliatory measures, particularly from China, the Eurozone, and Japan. Any retaliation is likely to escalate the trade conflict and prompt another reaction from the US. Experts at Goldman Sachs and other investment banks warn that this will lead to rising inflation and unemployment. They also caution that it could effectively halt economic growth in the US.   XAUUSD 1-Hour Chart   The Weakness In The US Dollar Another factor which is allowing the price of XAUUSD to increase in value is the US Dollar which has been unable to maintain any bullish momentum. Despite last week’s Core PCE Price Index rising to its highest level since February 2024, the US Dollar has been unable to see any significant rise in value. Due to the US Dollar and Gold's inverse correlation, the price of Gold is benefiting from the Dollar weakness. Investors worry that new trade barriers will prompt retaliatory measures from China, the Eurozone, and Japan, potentially escalating the conflict. Experts at The Goldman Sachs Group Inc. believe that such actions by the US administration will drive rising inflation and unemployment while effectively halting economic growth in the country. Can Gold Maintain Momentum? When it comes to technical analysis, the price of Gold is not trading at a price where oscillators are indicating the instrument is overbought. The Relative Strength Index currently trades at 68.88, outside of the overbought area, since Gold’s price fell 0.65% during this morning’s session. However, even with this decline, the price still remains 0.40% higher than the day’s open price. In terms of fundamental analysis, there continues to be plenty of factors indicating the price could continue to rise. However, the price movement of the week will also partially depend on the employment data from the US. The US is due to release the JOLTS Job Vacancies for February this afternoon, the ADP Non-Farm Employment Change tomorrow, and the NFP Change and Unemployment Rate on Friday. If all data reads higher than expectations, investors may look to sell to lock in profits at the high price. Key Takeaway Points: Gold’s Rally Continues – Up 17% in 2025 as investors seek safety from inflation, recession fears, and trade tensions. Trade War Impact – New US tariffs and potential retaliation from China, the EU, and Japan drive uncertainty, boosting Gold demand. Weak US Dollar – The Dollar’s struggle supports Gold’s rise due to their inverse correlation. Gold’s Outlook – Uptrend may continue, but US jobs data could trigger profit-taking. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 31st March 2025.   Trump Confirms Tariffs on All Countries, Sending Stocks Lower.   The NASDAQ continues to trade lower due to the US confirming the latest tariffs will be on all countries. In addition to this, bearish volatility also is largely due to the higher inflation data from Friday. The NASDAQ declines to its lowest price since September 11th 2024. Core PCE Price Index - Inflation Increases Again! The PCE Price Index read 2.5% aligning with expert forecasts not triggering any alarm bells. However, the Core PCE Price Index rose from 0.3% to 0.4% MoM and from 2.7% to 2.8% YoY, signalling growing inflationary pressure. This increases the likelihood that the Federal Reserve will maintain elevated interest rates for an extended period. The NASDAQ fell 2.60% due to the higher inflation reading which is known to pressure the stock market due to pressure on consumer demand and a more hawkish Federal Reserve. Boston Fed President Susan Collins recently commented that tariffs could drive up inflation, though the long-term impact remains uncertain. She told journalists that a short-term spike is the most probable outcome but believes the current pause in monetary policy adjustments is appropriate given the prevailing uncertainties. Although, certain investment banks such as JP Morgan actually believe the Federal Reserve will be forced into cutting rates. This is due to expectations that the economy will struggle under the new trade policy. For example, JP Morgan expects the Federal Reserve to delay rate cuts but will quickly cut towards the end of 2025. Market Risk Appetite Takes a Hit! A big factor for the day is the drop in the risk appetite of investors. This can be seen from the VIX which is up almost 6%, Gold which is trading 1.30% higher and the Japanese Yen which is the day’s best performing currency. Most safe haven assets, bar the US Dollar, increase in value. It is also worth noting that all indices are decreasing in value during this morning's Asian session with the Nikkei225 and NASDAQ witnessing the strongest decline. Previously the stock market rose in value as investors heard rumours that tariffs would only be on certain countries. This bullish swing occurred between March 14th and 25th. Over the weekend, President Donald Trump indicated that the upcoming tariffs would apply to all countries, not just those with the largest trade imbalances with the US. NASDAQ - Technical Analysis In terms of technical analysis, the NASDAQ continues to obtain indications that sellers control the price action. The price opens on a bearish price gap measuring 0.30% and trades below all Moving Averages on all timeframes. The NASDAQ also trades below the VWAP and almost 100% of the most influential components (stocks) are declining in value.     The next significant support level is at $18,313, and the resistance level stands at $20,367.95. Key Takeaway Points: NASDAQ falls to its lowest since September 2024 as the US confirms tariffs on all countries, adding to inflation concerns. Core PCE inflation rises to 0.4% MoM and 2.8% YoY, increasing the likelihood of prolonged high interest rates. Investor risk appetite drops as VIX jumps 6%, gold gains 1.3%, and safe-haven assets outperform. NASDAQ shows strong bearish momentum, trading below key technical levels with support at $18,313 and resistance at $20,367.95. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • PM Philip Morris stock, top of range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?PM
    • EXC Exelon stock, nice range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?EXC
    • UTZ Utz Brands stock, watch for a bottom breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?UTZ
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.