Desperately Seeking for Help

[cowcool 10]

Kinda desperate here. I lost a lot of money and a house in mutual fund and stock trading since the beginning of 2008 and my small business is not profitable (it was). I have 3 dependants rely on me (wife and 2 children)

 

During the last 6 months I have been reading a lot of stock trading books but still no success so far, my biggest mistake was ... I jumped into trading without doing some paper trading excersises plus improper psychological and money management discipline.

 

I paid for the mistake costly. Sometimes I really really feel guilty for my children.

 

I still have some money left , only $ 42.000,- in my saving account. Can anyone here point me to a very good trading system/online training, I don't mind paying for it as long as it is proven to be good trading system (no scam please).

 

Thx..

Edited April 20, 2009 by cowcool

[Tams 20]

give up trading for now

 

 

don't think about trading until you have some solid method/strategy, which might take you ~ 3 years to develop.

[walterw 10]

give up trading for now

 

 

don't think about trading until you have some solid method/strategy, which might take you ~ 3 years to develop.

 

 

 

I have to agree with Tams.. trading should be done as an extra income activity if you are not professional enough... methods can be very good, but if you psicology is under pressure, you most probably will not be able to make money even with good methods... hope helps, cheers Walter.

[JEHs 10]

This one tugs at my emotions a little bit. I'm thinking I would not wish the journey you are about to undertake on anyone. I have been at it for many years and only recently have begun to think I am seeing the light of day. The most important thing you need to do if you want to be a trader is figure out how you are going to make a living for your family while you learn this. Just like if you were going to go back to school. You need to figure out the personal and financial logistics of how you are going to get from there to where you want to be. And I don't mean looking for a method or system, (there isn't one). You need to figure out how you can get a job that will allow you the time and energy to devote to learning this craft. It is hard. If this is something you really need to do, then nothing anybody says will discourage you, but you might want to think long and hard and have many long conversations with your wife about this and talk to traders who are doing it and ask them how the learning process went for them.

Dude. Seriously.

And don't even think of trading one more dime of your savings until you have a good solid grasp of something. You will need that money to live.

Sorry to take such a negative tone, but I just have to say...Dude...Seriously...there is no way you could possible have any idea what it is you are trying to do and what it will take to get it done. I am not just saying this, I have a pretty good idea what I am talking about.

 

John

[diablo272 10]

You should not be trading live right now. You can trade on a sim, but DO NOT use real money. I repeat: NO TRADING FOR YOU until you're sure the people who depend on you won't be affected by your mistakes.

 

There are loads of traders who would love to take that remaining $42,000 from you, including myself, but I don't think that would be fair to your kids. Keep that in mind.

Edited April 20, 2009 by diablo272

[Soultrader 12]

cowcool, the advice provided by Tams, walterw, JEHs, and diablo272 are probably the straight and most honest reply you will receive. Considering your situation, the edge is against you.... guilt will lead to revenge trading with a possibiliy of a major blowout in 1-2 trades. Use only risk capital in trading.... $42k in savings is not risk capital with 3 dependants. There must be other ways to turn your situation around. The market will always be here when you are ready, whether it be 2, 3, 5, 10 years. With the psychological pressure and stress which you may currently be experiencing, trading is not a good option. It must be approached with a clear mind because your emotions will reflect your situation.

[BlowFish 10]

I have to echo what has been said. Resist the temptation to jump back in to get you out of a hole. Unless things have significantly changed in you and your approach your results will not be significantly different. From your recent questions since you joined here I would strongly suspect they have not.

 

You are in a particularly difficult place (that I have found myself in on a couple of occasions) and that is having suffered a pretty substantial draw down. Even with a 'winning system' I will bet a penny to a pound that you will have difficulty following it. This is when the fear really cuts in and you (if you are anything like most of us) will start doing things that you know are wrong. The subconscious/emotions call it what you like, will start operating the mouse button for you out of fear of loosing again. You might want to read Mark Douglas' books he explains this quite well and most people recommend them.

 

I would devote the as much (or more) energy into preparing yourself to trade again as searching for a system.

[Harlequin 10]

There isn't much I can add to excellent advice already given. So I'll just add my personal experience.

 

When I first started like most others I thought I'm smart I'll be making money in a few months or a year from now. Well it turned out to be nearer 3 years. I was lucky enough to have enough savings, low outgoings and no dependants to stay in in long enough to finally get there.

 

Never trade with scared money.

 

Try and find a regular job to get you through whilst learning all you can about trading.

 

Best of luck.

[brownsfan019 17]

Lesson #1: There is no shortcut to becoming a trader that can regularly take money from the markets.

Lesson #2: You won't find what you are looking for on the internet for a couple thousand bucks here and there.

Lesson #3: This business requires YEARS before you MIGHT master it.

 

If you really want to become a trader, now is the time to start your learning process. This process will take years to master and even then, no guarantees that you will find what you are looking for. It will take at least 2-3 years IMO before the lightbulb even comes on. It's not easy and that's b/c those that do make it can make a very comfortable living. If it was easy, everyone would be a daytrader.

 

Start with some general books and see what grabs your attention. I attached a PDF of books that I would recommend to have in your library.

 

From there, TL has some great stuff all over the place:

Candlestick Corner

Wyckoff

Internals

Market Profile

From there, you can get an idea of some ways to trade and then see what fits your personality.

Amazon.com trading book reco's (tiny url's).pdf

[zdo 20]

I would devote as much (or more) energy into preparing yourself to trade again as searching for a system.

 

:applaud:

+1

Ditto

 

Etc.

 

:idea: Do that 'inner work' first each day before doing 'chart work'... and if you're not finding nearly equal passion for both 'works' then let that be a clear signal for you to find another game for your own sake (and your family's sake too) !!!!

 

And ditto on most of what all the other posters said too. The one place I would suggest something different is instead of SIM only, I would recommend taking $1000 of your savings and opening a micro FX account (OANDA, etc) and trading and managing and protecting that capital deeply like it was a million dollars. PM me if you want more details... over the last six months helped guide a med school student (who blew up an $80k account) get back up and running via a very similar path... and he's already back trading +1M lots in FX and multiple contracts in futures... he's gifted btw, but the point is he tells me that he would probably have gone no where had he re-started in SIM instead of real...

 

All the best,

 

zdo

[Tams 20]

some points to ponder...

 

 

trading a bad system/method will net you bad results, whether it is real money or sim.

 

good money management will delay the inevitable.

 

simming with bad habit will reinforce the bad habit.

 

good system/method with bad execution is the same as bad system/method with good execution.

[brownsfan019 17]

some points to ponder...

 

 

trading a bad system/method will net you bad results, whether it is real money or sim.

 

good money management will delay the inevitable.

 

simming with bad habit will reinforce the bad habit.

 

good system/method with bad execution is the same as bad system/method with good execution.

 

I like that Tams. Well said.

 

And that's what is so hard about trading - you need to find a system that works, that works for you, and makes money. Not an easy task.

 

I had an interesting conversation w/ a poker buddy recently that wanted my opinion of buying Sirius around 12 cents. After I explained that I don't do much w/ stocks anymore, I started to ask questions like - what price would you sell it at? Why? How much you trying to make here? etc. etc.

 

At the time he said he was looking for it to get back into the dollars per share. Currently it's at 42 cents a share and he's talking about dumping it all to take some profit.

 

My point is that when there's no real money on the line, it's easy to talk in abstracts but when real money is on the line, your attitude can and does change.

 

When I explained to him that you need to be right when you buy AND sell, the lightbulb clicked. He's not sure what to do - cash out with a nice % gain or hold on and see...

 

That's my long way of saying that trading is hard b/c you need to be right twice - when you enter and when you exit.

[suriNotes 11]

Great advice provided by others...

 

As Soultrader said, with your current situation, trading may NOT be

a great option. Scared money NEVER makes money in Trading.

Without proper mindset and preparation, imagine how devastated

you would be if you lose your capital in next few weeks to months

and how tough it would be to get back. Don't underestimate Failure...

 

Trading career is one of the few careers where success rate is very small

and could be elusive for a very long time. Trading career is also one of the

toughest as it demands you to be in your best of mind and body every

single day to succeed. There are other careers which are far better than

trading career and may offer better security and life. Very smart and

successful people (in other areas) are drawn to trading world, but few

realize quickly trading may not be their best bet and move on to other

rewarding ventures. Evaluate yourself first and see if trading really fits

you and your overall goal.

 

Take a year or two and learn the basics, build a plan, method or system

with some solid analysis... More importantly work on yourself, your goals

and how you will achieve them. No one mastered the markets without

mastering themselves first. Education plays a big role and psychology plays

even bigger role in your success. Write a journal (honest) of all of your

progress and see in a year or two if you do want to venture Trading. Start

slow and build confidence in yourself and your method/system first!!

 

Wish you the best!!

 

 

Regards,

Suri

[BlowFish 10]

some points to ponder...

 

 

trading a bad system/method will net you bad results, whether it is real money or sim.

 

good money management will delay the inevitable.

 

simming with bad habit will reinforce the bad habit.

 

good system/method with bad execution is the same as bad system/method with good execution.

 

This is probably the wrong thread for 'discussion'. Having said that. A 'good' system does not need to be complex. Further more lots of systems whilst they might not be 'good' are 'OK'. A 'good' trader should be able to wring profits out of an OK system. Furthermore people spend way to much energy (imho) on the entry part of the system which is perhaps the least important part of the process. It is possible to make money with coin toss entries (or a simple BO if you prefer) if you have sound money management (and a reversal criteria). A trader without a sound money and trade management plan and/or with poor discipline will loose even with the very best system. I'll say no more, Sun sea and sangria time (well for a week or two at least).

[brownsfan019 17]

There's so many ways to say the same thing, which boils down to - you need to find a trading system that works for you (mentally & fiscally).

 

That includes entries, stops and profit target(s).

[atto 20]

Excellent points, all. There is a huge difference between trading for hobby, and having people rely on your trading abilities. If trading is something you want to master (which requires more hours than you imagine, I promise), first stabilize your income: get a real job. Trading will always be here.

 

Next, put the hours in. Success can be found many different ways; don't let anyone tell you differently. However, there is no golden ticket. All methodologies take time and commitment. Make a serious plan, and develop the psychology to stick to it. Every trade should be well defined: which direction you enter, where you enter, initial stop loss / risk management, and exit strategy. Each of these will take serious and deep thought.

 

I'm one of the younger full-time traders here. To give you an idea of the time it takes, I studied markets and technical analysis casually for about 2 years, paper traded for 3 years, had a plan, and still managed to blow my first account. I learned more in the latter than any of the former. Some can do it faster, some never "get it".

 

I've never met a successful trader that was in your situation, where immediate trading success is do-or-die. Every single one was not depending on trading profits to live.

 

Some advice I wish I knew originally:

• If it were that easy, everyone would do it.
  
• There is no magic bullet; no flashy course can beat screen time. (The information available free in this forum is more than sufficient to achieve profitability.)
  
• Forget indicators, focus on learning price action, support and resistance, and Auction Market Theory. (The latter has several faces, including Market Profile and Wyckoff.)
  

[ckait 10]

A degree from an Ivy Leauge school will cost more money than I care to think about.Having children lol, not that they are going to one, the only point is even those who went and spent the dough on this education are not guaranteed a job or more importatly suscess especially for a degree in trading if one even exists. Ive blown a couple accounts figuring its just tuition. The best advice I can give you is try not to sim, unless you can absolutly repeat the same reactions when real money is on the line. EVERYTHING changes profiet targets, stops, bailing on trades not taking trades just to name a few. Its not an impossible dream but pretty close and it takes time or and money to learn. You can buy a good system and fail to execute it properly and make it a looser and it doesnt take long to burn through 42k. Save at least 20 k your wife doesnt know about so when you finally get it you have enough money left to make it count.

[brownsfan019 17]

Save at least 20 k your wife doesnt know about so when you finally get it you have enough money left to make it count.

 

Also get a divorce attny on speed dial.

 

The last thing I would ever suggest is keeping your significant other in the dark. She's as much into this as you are as far as I am concerned.

 

Very poor advice IMO.

 

:thumbs down:

[ckait 10]

Maybe I should have said that a little differently, save at least half of your capital for once you can grow it. Obviousyl deception would not be a good idea. Besides who better than you wife to put her foot up your .... when you doing the wrong thing.

[SwingTradinJay 10]

Stop for now, get a job, and paper trade. You can't expect to make enough to support 3-5 people...It's going to be hard work just to support yourself-on a budget !

 

This aint the easy life, and 42k is a good start, but can be eaten and digested in a heart beat if you play foolishly.

[maxima 10]

it seems you've got full load of advice... however it is obvious you are going to trade in despite...

 

before you blow yourself to pieces.. I have a question for you.. being rational, if anyone would offer you to bet on "the cowmoo or whatever his name is, is going to lose his last money in a few months trading", would you bet?

[wjrusnak 10]

it seems you've got full load of advice... however it is obvious you are going to trade in despite...

 

before you blow yourself to pieces.. I have a question for you.. being rational, if anyone would offer you to bet on "the cowmoo or whatever his name is, is going to lose his last money in a few months trading", would you bet?

 

This seems insensitive... Was your post really necessary?

 

Anyway, Cowcool: Please take the advice given to you. I lost at least 30% on my account (money I DID NOT need to live on) in the past and it does teach you a lesson. The obvious thing here is that you don't know what you're doing and it is really a hard thing to admit... I know from experience. I think the best advice was to get a job. Guarantee yourself some income, especially at a time like this. Then in the evening or late at night... work on looking at charts, strategies, theories, etc. If you can, get a trading platform and do some market replay stuff. SIM a swing trading method. Whatever you do will help, but don't risk that money, please. You need to be responsible now, not a hero. I don't even know you, but you definitely made me depressed with your post. Good luck to you and your family.

[maxima 10]

The Road to Hell Is Paved With Sensitive Advices © 2009 Me

[JEHs 10]

FWIW, I think you are wrong about the "road to hell"...

 

JH

[AKM 10]

It will probably take few years or even decades if you have a job and can dedicate only few hours in low volatility markets.

 

Dedicate all your time for trading!

Trade forex during London session

Trade stocks or futures during NY session 9:30 - 4pm EST

 

Use small stops, manage your risk. Watch charts and analyze them during HIGHER volatility periods. Dont waste your time trading after 5pm EST any market!

 

- Master skills on SIM !

- then start with small shares, lots, contracts

- then make decent living out of trading

 

If you have no idea where to start. Take classes in trading school to get basics and theory (don't take any mentoring program, its NOT GONNA Help)!

If trader can make money trading - WHY MAKE MONEY TEACHING !!!!?????

 

GOOD LUCK TO ALL!