ACD Method

[feb2865 10]

Hello everyone

 

I was in the chatroom today (I had a great time by the way) and somebody, I believe was Nasdaq5048 said something about ACD Method of Mark Fisher. I haven't read the book yet but as far as I read and talk to other traders, I see some logic especially on opening range strategy. I am curious.

 

I would like to see some comments on this method, especially what do you determine as an opening range timeframe for whatever market you're trading.

 

Regards

 

Raul

[MrPaul 10]

Hello everyone

 

I was in the chatroom today (I had a great time by the way) and somebody, I believe was Nasdaq5048 said something about ACD Method of Mark Fisher. I haven't read the book yet but as far as I read and talk to other traders, I see some logic especially on opening range strategy. I am curious.

 

I would like to see some comments on this method, especially what do you determine as an opening range timeframe for whatever market you're trading.

 

Regards

 

Raul

 

I just bought the book today...I would also like to know if anyone has been able to successfully apply the ACD method

[nasdaq5048 10]

It depends on the market. It depends on your time horizon. It doesnt really matter what timeframe you use. Fisher likes to use 20 min for stocks, and 5 min for grains and true opening range for energies.

I just view the A as the Initial balance high, and B as the opposite end of the initial balance.

But, one thing is for sure, late day pt C reversal works really well in energies. I am not sure whether it is because 60% of the locals on the NYMEX know to a certain degree about ACD or what. But, it works great.

[torero 10]

Now, I'm curious to buy the book too. Nas, now you've really opened up a Pandora's box!!!

 

Ok, once I have the book, I hope you'll be around the chat room to answer questions and walk us through it LOL!

[feb2865 10]

I read the first chapter and seems interesting. He doesn't say where you should have an entry but I read somewhere that possible entry range is something that they provide in a daily basis depending on the market. I smell some co$t involved.

 

The problem with this type of strategies is that if you have a significant S/R - Pivot line nearby and there's not enough meat for a rally, chances are you get halted on the line.

 

Maybe it will work better on energies and grains, like nasdaq said

 

Maybe will work within a 1 to 1-1/4 point deviation from A/C on ES and 4-5 points on YM but this is just a theory. Again all depends on how far/close the price is from any significant level. Anyway, any deviation from the channel has to be done as the market shifts from one price range to another.

 

To me this is another version of a channel breakout system. But it's a better one because you don't play the breakout as the market pulls away from the channel. Another thing I like is about timing you entries.

 

Raul

[MrPaul 10]

The more I read and analyze the book I am seeing how at least with emini's, the ACD method may be more effective on a longer-term timeframe i.e 3 to 5 days with a 30min chart. Although this is just a preliminary opinion.

[torero 10]

Does anyone have a chart so I can get an idea what you mean? I don't have the book so I have no idea in my head what it looks like. Thanks.

[MrPaul 10]

Does anyone have a chart so I can get an idea what you mean? I don't have the book so I have no idea in my head what it looks like. Thanks.

 

This was the best I could find...

 

Spotting Breakouts As Easy As ACD

 

[torero 10]

Excellent article! Thanks, MrPaul. Mentions forex as good candidates for Fisher system but problem is the dang market is 24hrs, where do you start and end the 15min open range?

[MrPaul 10]

Excellent article! Thanks, MrPaul. Mentions forex as good candidates for Fisher system but problem is the dang market is 24hrs, where do you start and end the 15min open range?

 

In the book he mentions it as being the instrument's domicile market.

 

From pg. 11

 

"There is one important consideration about the opening range, and that's making sure it's based on the domicile market. What do I mean by that? If your trading natural gas futures, then you know that the domicile market is the New York Mercantile Exchange. That's where the opening bell is established. But if you were trading say, Japanese yen, the the opening of the U.S currency markets wouldn't apply. Rather you would look to the opening of the Japanese markets...."

[nasdaq5048 10]

The a-value is 22% of the average of the average true range of the past 10 days with some more weight in the front.

I used to use a 15 min range on the S&P, and sometimes the A Up is where it stall. So, it could be used as a failed A trade.

Also, Fisher says 3.5/5 A's in the S&P doesnt work. Too much back and filling for stock indicies.

But for stuff that trend, and yoyo all over the place, this thing can capture some good move without taking profits too early.

[ant 10]

You may also want to learn about Toby Crabel's and Larry William's versions of a channel breakout strategy as well and then compare. Although, I can't remember the details, I think I preferred Crabel's method over the other two.

[Knyyt 10]

Mark Fisher's Logical Trader ACD Method

[ashtrom 10]

hello, dear nasdaq58.

I have 2 questions, please.

1. How many ticks does Mark Fisher use for YM,ES and NQ for establising A levels.

2. What open range does he use for these futures. I use 30 min OR,but I am intraday trader, therefore it could be 15min OR or smaller.

Thank you in advance.

[ines 10]

You can have 4 weeks trial at the page http://www.mbfcc.com.

 

There you can find a list of the actual valid A&C values and the OR times,

[ashtrom 10]

Thank you for your reply, dear Nasdaq5048

I also use 22% of ATR, but you can check in Fisher's "Logical trader" p.32.

You will see that 15min Opening Range was 5.5points, but Fisher used 2 points for A.this is not 22% of ATR, it is much smaller.So I see that 22% of ATR is unproper or may be I don't understand something.

I will be happy to get your opinion about this.

thank you in advance.

[ines 10]

I use ATR_Percent_A=0.10, ATR_Percent_C=0.15;

[ashtrom 10]

thank you for your answer.

I will check them .

I usually trade YM, but I wanted to check everything for ES mini.

thanks again.

[ines 10]

I am just trading FX and Gold - therefore I feel the values are appropirate.

 

My OR duration is 30 min from 08:00 until 08:30 GMT+2.

 

My TS duration is from 08:00 until 18:30 GMT+2.

 

I am trading this list of FX pairs.

[MRW 10]

Not to throw cold water on the discussion here, but I have a friend in Chicago who runs several funds. He works with Fisher on a proprietary approach to the ACD. Mark has stated to him that trying to use ACD from the book alone is futile. The book gives the broad overview, but not enough specifics to trade with. Again, this is according to what Mark has told my friend.

 

Yes, I've seen Fisher's NYMEX presentations, and have read the book. No, I do not trade using this method, and the lack of clear-cut rules for using this is the reason why as I've had the book since shortly after it was published.

 

If yuo'd like, yuo can go to Elitetrader.com (which I try to avoid at all costs), and do a Search under Maverick74 (my friend in Chicago), and read his comments about using ACD.

 

Not trying to stir up any negativity, but there's more to this than is publically known. If any of yuo have had luck using ACD as outlined in the book only, then yuo've done better than almost anyone else, and no, I've not subscribed to Mark's site or service.

[zdo 20]

Thanks MRW.

I tried to say as much in the related thread where several traders were trying to garner Fisher videos.

Basically, in the 'real' ACD, the entry techniques are pretty much as advertised / published (with some undisclosed exceptions for certain conditions). But how the trades are managed once triggered is when the 'real' tricks begin - and that info is generally undisclosed. Adjusting sizing to runs (+ and -) is also another important area where real time particulars are not disclosed.

 

Fisher is no dummy. He knows published authors can raise money easier than can unknowns.

Learning to copy his attitudes is of probably of far greater benefit than learning to copy his methods ...

 

hth all

Edited June 5, 2008 by zdo
spelling and clarity

[WinSum 10]

... But how the trades are managed once triggered is when the 'real' tricks begin - and that info is generally undisclosed. Adjusting sizing to runs (+ and -) is also another important area where real time particulars are not disclosed.

 

I agree. Learning how to add to your winners is a topic that is rarely discussed by ACD Traders and it is a important part of the ACD Methodolgy.

[bootstrap 47]

for those that are still curious the opening range is a short term average of the range of the first pivot price. not to be confused with pivot points. And while the strategy can be used for longer time frames it was designed for day/swing trading using intraday data.

[mikekcau 10]

Hey guys,

I've been reading your posts and all are very interesting, however something has been plaguing me when trying to trade ACD with FX and i was wondering if I could grab your guys suggestions

When calculating A, C pivot points etc for the FX markets, do you take the 24 hours into account or just the 'session' that you are trading. For Example, London session is approximately 2:am to 12pm EST so would you arrange to calculate A, C and pivot points based on price occurring ONLY within this range or would you include the whole 24 hours. Whilst only including the session is logical, the problem then becomes that most FX charting software only calculate the ATR (used for A and C points) for the WHOLE 24 hours, thereby 'diluting' the calculations of your various points.

 

ANy suggestions?

Much appreciated

[bootstrap 47]

mike....

 

i have not been active on here lately for several reasons. but i saw your post pop up and thought i would give you a clue...(currencies are all i trade...not to be confused with invest)

 

the opening range of the base currency is what you use. and that is why you cannot use the defaults of the software you use...so is you trade the noraml US market and trade the EUR/USD it is the open of the EUR in Europe....the fun comes in when you trade the crosses...

 

hey jason.....if you see this you want to give him a pointer....the student becomes the teacher...and there is nothing ne.