Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Szymon

Drummond Geometry

Recommended Posts

@TRADERXMAN

 

Maybe you can show us some examples that TS is not so accurate like it should be. It would be nice to see a confirmation on your opinion.

 

Regards.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take your DGII indicators for example...a simple test, try placing them on a 15 minute chart (sub bars 4)...i.e. a 60 minute envelope on a 15 minute chart and then take note, that the 60 minute envelope plotted on the 15 minute is way different than the actual 60 minute envelope itself.

 

All other intra day indicators, including DI, daily on intra day are inaccurate.

 

Take some time and get to know your indicators.

 

The concepts are valid, the indicators will make your head spin...

 

Not trying to shit on this parade, like the fact that someone has taken an interest in what I believe to be the best way to look at the market, I have been studying various methods since 1996. Big deal,I'm sure there are many others here that have more experience.

 

Success is making shit turn green IMO. Drummond has the ability to help withrespect to that. They have new indicators.

Edited by traderxman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess what has enthused me all these years is the charts themselves.

Agreed that all these indicators have to be in place to make the system work.

However, can we consolidate all the scribblings on the chart to show just the Buy/Sell signals.......(assuming the actual indicators are running in the background).

JPx2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Point well taken...

 

Lesson #1 (loss of the pldot poosh up, in this case)...red arrow down

 

Great lean...a quarterly level

 

Now dig deep and learn.

 

The 2nd horizontal mark (just under the red arrow, is placed 1 bar into the future) not some indicator shit that lags

 

When the marks point sideways, you have confirmation a top is in.

960.thumb.png.bb3727cb39f804f0573d61c3dd6c2ccc.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guys,

 

To all those traders that are using Drummond for their trading is anyone of you have developed an indicator for the Trend Run, Trend Congestion Entrance, Congestion Action and Exit.

 

Can somone post a picture of your charts with that indicator on.

 

Thanks

 

Simon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An indicator for congestion is also called a dotted line.

 

This is lesson #1, the loss of the pldot push.

 

The indication of this is when we have no c waves up.

 

The c wave is a close beyond the envelope....so no more closes up, the crowd has lost its interest in driving price.

 

In the chart previously posted (2 posts back) the red arrow and bar before conform to this indication, 3 bars b4 the red arrow down, this is called a c wave...notice how they stopped...then you got congestion enetrance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
An indicator for congestion is also called a dotted line.

 

This is lesson #1, the loss of the pldot push.

 

The indication of this is when we have no c waves up.

 

The c wave is a close beyond the envelope....so no more closes up, the crowd has lost its interest in driving price.

 

In the chart previously posted (2 posts back) the red arrow and bar before conform to this indication, 3 bars b4 the red arrow down, this is called a c wave...notice how they stopped...then you got congestion enetrance.

 

Hi TraderXMan,

 

I was referring to lesson 11,12,13,14.

 

Trend Runs, Congestion Entrance, Congestion Action and Congestion Exit once you go into congestion entrance that is where you setup the dotted line and the block level.

 

I have created a indicator for the the trend run, congestion entrance and congestion action.

 

Have a look at the attachment.

 

Simon

picture1.thumb.png.8f0e5781e3730cf77886473fb5d2fefb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi,

Am very new to forex and would like to know how to use the fibonacci time projection for end of corrective wave four. Anyone to help please?

 

 

 

maybe you can read the thread, then tell us in more detail on how we can help you with the fibo time projection?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What am I missing? I've been reading over the posted pdf files and trying to figure out this Drummond stuff, and so far, it looks like it's just a rehashing of trendlines and moving averages. Clearly, I must be missing something because you folks seem to think there's something here. Is it just the way Drummond uses these basic tools that makes his method powerful, or are there more sophisticated tools that I'm not seeing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What am I missing? I've been reading over the posted pdf files and trying to figure out this Drummond stuff, and so far, it looks like it's just a rehashing of trendlines and moving averages. ...

 

 

 

That shouldn't be surprising...

because about half the Technical Analysis under the sun is a rehash of trendlines and moving averages.

 

;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What am I missing? I've been reading over the posted pdf files and trying to figure out this Drummond stuff, and so far, it looks like it's just a rehashing of trendlines and moving averages. Clearly, I must be missing something because you folks seem to think there's something here. Is it just the way Drummond uses these basic tools that makes his method powerful, or are there more sophisticated tools that I'm not seeing?

 

The latter, the full course represents about 40 years of his work and research. He is an inveterate researcher and there is a vast amount of material. That would be my biggest criticism, actually! Whist it is comprehensive and efficacious there are much more straightforward ways to trade. It is likely to take thousands of hours of study to really 'get it'.

 

The most powerful aspects are his ideas how price moves (though experienced traders will find some familiarity). The (rigorous and unambiguous) classification of types of market action (e.g. trend, congestion entrance, congestion, congestion exit etc.). And the big one - multiple time frame analysis which looks at the subtle interaction of all of his tools and techniques on multiple time frames.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Szymon , in one of your post you wrote this:

"I have created a indicator for the the trend run, congestion entrance and congestion action".

Are this the indicators on the picture? This are for TS

platform or for other software ?

I know Drumond from many years , I think the first time that Ted sold the lessons . I did stop to use all the indicators because now I use Ninja.

Someone that did programmed this indicators for Ninja ?

Angel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to use day and upwards on intraday though no reason why you could not use an hourly overlay on a 10 minute (I have in the past). It all depends on what you want to see which depends on the moves your are trying to capture. I am not really trading from P&L charts at the moment though have in the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Szymon , in one of your post you wrote this:

"I have created a indicator for the the trend run, congestion entrance and congestion action".

Are this the indicators on the picture? This are for TS

platform or for other software ?

I know Drumond from many years , I think the first time that Ted sold the lessons . I did stop to use all the indicators because now I use Ninja.

Someone that did programmed this indicators for Ninja ?

Angel

 

Hi Angel,

 

the indicators that I developed are for TS Multicharts, I am going to put more effort and upgrade my ram on my computer, it looks like my computer is a bit too slow with 1meg ram on it, so I am going to get a brand new computer with a lot of horse power and attach four monitors as I developed other software that I use with Drummond Geometry. This is good because my other software calculates time and price points in future, combine this with Drummond Geometry methodology just gold.

 

Simon

good trading to you all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you follow drummond in the least you know the nearbys are the indicator that is THE systems heart...developing code on this...i seriously doubt it since you would have had to crack a special program to get...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I have mentioned to you before I first became acquainted with Drummond ooo I dunno early 90's. I thought I had proved my credentials then :)

 

Nearbys (and father out) areas are important but the key is to apply them in multiple time frames. In essence you want to see focus time periods nearbys holding in higher time periods key areas. There is an argument that the indicator is a crutch for those that don't have the skill (or inclination) to draw them for themselves. You'll notice that Charlie will frequently hand draw daily overlays on intraday charts.

 

Anyway with that caveat I have developed complete sets of indicators (including nearbys and fartherouts and the higher time period overlays) for Ensign (ran too slow) Neoticker and Tradestation. I plan on doing Ninja some time soon as its a good way to learn a platforms programming nuances as you need to use every trick in the book.

 

I used to have long converstaions with Ted about how the official indicators grouped stuff into nearby and furtherout areas. That was the one thing that he would not reveal saying it was proprietary . I believe that it was in fact because he did not know (the V1 indicators where developed by a third party....Cynthia someone or other if memory serves). So to cut a long story short I came up with my own algorithms to group geometry into near or far areas. Whilst not perfect I believe they are better than the official V1 versions. Sadly I don't have experience of the V2 indicators so can't comment there. I know Ted was impressed, he showed screens of my Neoticker indicators at the conference they did in err..... was it 1997...I cant remember exactly. This was to demonstrate what was possible at the leading edge.

 

Anyway whether any of that qualifies me as 'following drummond' I don't know. Don't assume that every one is restricted by the same constraints you put upon yourself, well when it comes to coding indicators at least.

Edited by BlowFish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blow...I lay at your feet with respect.

 

All due respect...drummond or P&L as he likes to call it...

 

Has its own faults with respect to the nearbys...

 

they are drwan by using the close of the last bar...

 

In other words for anyone else reading along here...the nearbys acan be drawn very differently because of a single tick difference.

 

Yes the originator will hand draw them by hand and disagree with software designed by Robin Mesch...she holds the rights to them.

 

Basing them solely on the 2 and 3 bar lines...many times changing hs mind indicating that the nearbys are also very subjective to draw.

 

Have all the software you mentioned and many years back got into programming also...NeoTicker etc etc

 

THe latest software finally adressed the TS software issues for multiple time frame usage for day trading...this is all based on the free work of Bamboo (i.e. ADE)

 

THe latest nearbys are called oncomings, again based on another algorithm as you called the last nearbys.

 

Lesson one clarifys the loss of the pldot...but using oncomings or subjective nearbys???

 

Hence the suggestion in the SFT's to use clear closes...its an interesting study of work...like your thots...no disrespect meant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for reminding me who holds the rights to the original software. At the end of the day it is a remarkable body of work and its nice to see it discussed (though respect for the NDA makes full discourse tricky in the open). Of course in the early days it was all plotted by hand! Anyway I probably over reacted, not looking for adulation but simply establishing credentials (for what thats worth, on the interweb I guess it's wise to take everything with a pinch of salt).

 

As an aside have you thought about getting the V2 indicators? Whilst they certainly look comprehensive they seem a bit like overkill to me....unless you are pursuing back testing automation and all that malarkey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another thing I meant to mention and I found very useful is the idea of having extra envelopes. Its funny but it seems that this is something that occurs to people independantly when looking at Charlies work. I was surprised it was quite late in the day when he incorporated this idea. I think these can provide a very useful 'framework' to help organise the geometry. After all EB->Pldot and Pldot->ET are used for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • lmfx just officially launched their own LMGX token, Im planning to grab a couple of hundred and maybe have the option to stake them. 
    • Date: 2nd April 2025.   Market on Edge: Tariff Announcement and Volatility Ahead!   The US economic and employment data continues to deteriorate with the job vacancies figures dropping to a 5-month low. In addition to this, the IMS Manufacturing PMI also fell below expectations. However, both the US Dollar and Gold declined simultaneously following the release of the two figures, an uncommon occurrence in the market. Traders expect a key factor to be today’s ‘liberation day’ where the US will impose tariffs on imports. USDJPY - Traders Await Tariff Confirmation! Traders looking to determine how the USDJPY will look today will find it difficult to determine until the US confirms its tariff plan. Today is the day when Trump previously stated he would finalize and announce his tariff plan. The administration has not yet released the policy, but investors expect it to be the most expansionary in a century. President Trump is due to speak at 20:00 GMT. On HFM's Calendar the speech is stated as "US Liberation Day Tariff Announcement". Currently, analysts are expecting Trump’s Tariff Plan to impose tariffs on the EU, chips and pharmaceuticals later today as well as reciprocal tariffs. Economists have a good idea of how these tariffs may take effect, but reciprocal tariffs are still unspecified. In addition to this, 25% tariffs on the car industry will start tomorrow. The tariffs on the foreign cars industry are a factor which will particularly impact Japan. Although, traders should note that this is what is expected and is not yet finalised. Last week, President Trump stated that he would implement retaliatory tariffs but allow exemptions for certain US trade partners. Treasury Secretary Mr Bessent and National Economic Council Director Mr Hassett suggested that the restrictions would primarily target 15 countries responsible for the bulk of the US trade deficit. However, yesterday, Trump contradicted these statements, asserting that additional duties would be imposed on any country that has implemented similar measures against US products. The day’s volatility will depend on which route the US administration takes. The harshness of the policy will influence both the Japanese Yen as well as the US Dollar.   USDJPY 5-Minute Chart   US Economic and Employment Data The JOLT Job Vacancies figure fell below expectations and is lower than the previous month’s figure. The JOLT Job Vacancies read 7.57 million whereas the average of the past 6 months is 7.78 million. The ISM Manufacturing Index also fell below the key level of 50.00 and was 5 points lower than what analysts were expecting. The data is negative for the US Dollar, particularly as the latest release applies more pressure on the Federal Reserve to cut interest rates. However, this is unlikely to happen if the trade policy ignites higher and stickier inflation. In the Bank of Japan’s Governor's latest speech, Mr Ueda said that the tariffs are likely to trigger higher inflation. USDJPY Technical Analysis Currently, the Japanese Yen Index is the worst performing of the day while the US Dollar Index is more or less unchanged. However, this is something traders will continue to monitor as the EU session starts. In the 2-hour timeframe, the USDJPY is trading at the neutral level below the 75-bar EMA and 100-bar SMA. The RSI and MACD is also at the neutral level meaning traders should be open to price movements in either direction. On the smaller timeframes, such as the 5-minute timeframe, there is a slight bias towards a bullish outcome. However, this is only likely if the latest bearish swing does not drop below the 200-Bar SMA.     The key resistant level can be seen at 150.262 and the support level at 149.115. Breakout levels are at 149.988 and 149.674. Key Takeaway Points: Job vacancies hit a five-month low, and the ISM Manufacturing PMI missed expectations, adding pressure on the Federal Reserve regarding interest rate decisions. Traders await confirmation on Trump’s tariff policy, which is expected to impact the EU, chips, pharmaceuticals, and foreign car industries. The severity of the tariffs will influence both the JPY and the USD, with traders waiting for final policy details. The Japanese Yen Index is the worst index of the day while the US Dollar Index is unchanged. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • HLF Herbalife stock, watch for a bull flag breakout above 9.02 at https://stockconsultant.com/?HLF
    • Date: 1st April 2025.   Will Gold’s Rally Hold Strong as New Trade Tariffs Take Effect Tomorrow?   Gold continues to increase in value for a sixth consecutive day and is trading more than 17% higher in 2025. Amid fear of higher inflation, a recession and the tariffs war escalating investors continue to invest into Gold pushing demand higher. The trade policy from April 2nd onwards continues to be a key factor for the whole market. Can Gold maintain its upward trend? Trade Policy From Tomorrow Onwards Starting as soon as tomorrow, a 25% tariff will be imposed on all passenger cars imported into the United States. While this White House policy is anticipated to negatively affect European industrial performance, it will also lead to higher transportation and maintenance costs for everyday American taxpayers. The negative impact expected on both the EU and US is one of the reasons investors continue to buy Gold. Additionally, last month, President Donald Trump announced reciprocal sanctions against any trade partners that impose import restrictions on US goods. Furthermore, tariffs on products from Canada and the EU could increase even more if they attempt to coordinate a response. Overall, investors continue to worry that new trade barriers will prompt retaliatory measures, particularly from China, the Eurozone, and Japan. Any retaliation is likely to escalate the trade conflict and prompt another reaction from the US. Experts at Goldman Sachs and other investment banks warn that this will lead to rising inflation and unemployment. They also caution that it could effectively halt economic growth in the US.   XAUUSD 1-Hour Chart   The Weakness In The US Dollar Another factor which is allowing the price of XAUUSD to increase in value is the US Dollar which has been unable to maintain any bullish momentum. Despite last week’s Core PCE Price Index rising to its highest level since February 2024, the US Dollar has been unable to see any significant rise in value. Due to the US Dollar and Gold's inverse correlation, the price of Gold is benefiting from the Dollar weakness. Investors worry that new trade barriers will prompt retaliatory measures from China, the Eurozone, and Japan, potentially escalating the conflict. Experts at The Goldman Sachs Group Inc. believe that such actions by the US administration will drive rising inflation and unemployment while effectively halting economic growth in the country. Can Gold Maintain Momentum? When it comes to technical analysis, the price of Gold is not trading at a price where oscillators are indicating the instrument is overbought. The Relative Strength Index currently trades at 68.88, outside of the overbought area, since Gold’s price fell 0.65% during this morning’s session. However, even with this decline, the price still remains 0.40% higher than the day’s open price. In terms of fundamental analysis, there continues to be plenty of factors indicating the price could continue to rise. However, the price movement of the week will also partially depend on the employment data from the US. The US is due to release the JOLTS Job Vacancies for February this afternoon, the ADP Non-Farm Employment Change tomorrow, and the NFP Change and Unemployment Rate on Friday. If all data reads higher than expectations, investors may look to sell to lock in profits at the high price. Key Takeaway Points: Gold’s Rally Continues – Up 17% in 2025 as investors seek safety from inflation, recession fears, and trade tensions. Trade War Impact – New US tariffs and potential retaliation from China, the EU, and Japan drive uncertainty, boosting Gold demand. Weak US Dollar – The Dollar’s struggle supports Gold’s rise due to their inverse correlation. Gold’s Outlook – Uptrend may continue, but US jobs data could trigger profit-taking. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 31st March 2025.   Trump Confirms Tariffs on All Countries, Sending Stocks Lower.   The NASDAQ continues to trade lower due to the US confirming the latest tariffs will be on all countries. In addition to this, bearish volatility also is largely due to the higher inflation data from Friday. The NASDAQ declines to its lowest price since September 11th 2024. Core PCE Price Index - Inflation Increases Again! The PCE Price Index read 2.5% aligning with expert forecasts not triggering any alarm bells. However, the Core PCE Price Index rose from 0.3% to 0.4% MoM and from 2.7% to 2.8% YoY, signalling growing inflationary pressure. This increases the likelihood that the Federal Reserve will maintain elevated interest rates for an extended period. The NASDAQ fell 2.60% due to the higher inflation reading which is known to pressure the stock market due to pressure on consumer demand and a more hawkish Federal Reserve. Boston Fed President Susan Collins recently commented that tariffs could drive up inflation, though the long-term impact remains uncertain. She told journalists that a short-term spike is the most probable outcome but believes the current pause in monetary policy adjustments is appropriate given the prevailing uncertainties. Although, certain investment banks such as JP Morgan actually believe the Federal Reserve will be forced into cutting rates. This is due to expectations that the economy will struggle under the new trade policy. For example, JP Morgan expects the Federal Reserve to delay rate cuts but will quickly cut towards the end of 2025. Market Risk Appetite Takes a Hit! A big factor for the day is the drop in the risk appetite of investors. This can be seen from the VIX which is up almost 6%, Gold which is trading 1.30% higher and the Japanese Yen which is the day’s best performing currency. Most safe haven assets, bar the US Dollar, increase in value. It is also worth noting that all indices are decreasing in value during this morning's Asian session with the Nikkei225 and NASDAQ witnessing the strongest decline. Previously the stock market rose in value as investors heard rumours that tariffs would only be on certain countries. This bullish swing occurred between March 14th and 25th. Over the weekend, President Donald Trump indicated that the upcoming tariffs would apply to all countries, not just those with the largest trade imbalances with the US. NASDAQ - Technical Analysis In terms of technical analysis, the NASDAQ continues to obtain indications that sellers control the price action. The price opens on a bearish price gap measuring 0.30% and trades below all Moving Averages on all timeframes. The NASDAQ also trades below the VWAP and almost 100% of the most influential components (stocks) are declining in value.     The next significant support level is at $18,313, and the resistance level stands at $20,367.95. Key Takeaway Points: NASDAQ falls to its lowest since September 2024 as the US confirms tariffs on all countries, adding to inflation concerns. Core PCE inflation rises to 0.4% MoM and 2.8% YoY, increasing the likelihood of prolonged high interest rates. Investor risk appetite drops as VIX jumps 6%, gold gains 1.3%, and safe-haven assets outperform. NASDAQ shows strong bearish momentum, trading below key technical levels with support at $18,313 and resistance at $20,367.95. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.