How to Get the Most Out of a Trading Room.

[edabreu 10]

After more than 5 years full time trading, and about 100 trade rooms later I have a few thoughts about how to save yourself a bundle of headaches and heartaches, and maybe a few buck as you search for a trade room.

First question is why do you need a trade room? Simple answer is that in the beginning it can help you get through some of the learning curve, and you have a place for some some sympathetic response and support for your trading woes. Complicated answer is you really need guidance but cannot afford a 1 on 1 mentorship.

 

A good trade room should help you make money while you learn. Unfortunately, with 100's of methods and as many trade rooms out there, how can you wade through the junk and concentrate on the better one's?

I have a few criteria that I think are an absolute must for a real trade room where your chances of succeeding and MAKING MONEY WHILE LEARNING are high.

Number one - You must be able to see the moderating traders charts in real time.

Number two - You must be able to see the trades entered in real time either through the moderators order dom, or chart trader or some method where it is apparent that the trade was entered, filled, and managed.

Number three - You must be able to follow the trades, or at least most of them. This issues gets a bit difficult in a fast market and may need some adjusting.

To my mind there are three basic types of trading rooms. One is where it's just pure trading, minimal instruction. The other is where the education has more emphasis, and trading takes a back seat...hence few trades.

The third is a hybrid; a steady stream of trading towards a set room goal, some Q&A once the daily goal is met, and a scheduled series of ongoing educational sessions in addition to the room's daily trading.

So, first you need to decide which is right for you.

Here's a tip. If you are considering a trading education in a particular trading method because you have none of your own, then look for the education emphasis. Otherwise, if you have a few good setups you know, and

have some of your trading education already underway, then look for a trading room that will add to your knowledge, and help you make money as you learn their methods and tools. If, however, you have traded a bit

and have some tools and know some setups and yet nothing is working or going well for you, then look to the hybrid.

 

Regardless, remember the #1, #2 and #3 rule. DO NOT SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS. If a person hangs out their shingle and asks for your money in return for a service, then you better make sure that service is to your liking. If you are unable to see the trade moderators charts and his trade entries then pass that place up. It may be a good place, it may not.

But without the visual verifiable evidence you will find yourself not only having to watch your own chart, but also having to compile in your head what is happening, and keep that picture going along with all the other pressures of trading. I do not care what excuse is given...there is no excuse for not showing real time moderating trades taken in real time. Technology is not an issue, money cannot possibly be the issue, so it must be something else? Let's see...fear, exposure, stop fluffing, doubling up or bad trading habits or what? You tell me.

So, there is the absolute newbie (and it's going to be painful) who really needs a lot of luck to avoid the garbage rooms and there is the trader who is just looking to improve and there is the trader who really needs a better set of tools and methods to get him out of his funk.

So if you have found a room then the best way to research the room is to spend a few weeks just listening and watching. We are conditioned for immediate response syndrome, instant gratification syndrome and these are detremental to your trading health. We can probably all agree on that. If you do take the time to watch and listen, then keep a notebook and write down every trade call, the time and the particulars...targets hit, stops etc. and review it after market while looking at your own chart. Don't even look at your own chart while doing the assessment. Concentrate on what's going on in the room because if you decide on that room you are going to have to do the next very important thing to get the most out of the room. That is to trust the trading moderator and his trade calls. Why? Because you want to be able to make money while you learn. So your next task is to see if the room makes sense to you. Can you follow the logic of the trade moderator. If he is a really good trader, he may be a lousy moderator and vis versa. So you need to know that before you join. Look for verifiable results. Verifiable results are the trade records 1st hand...not some spreadsheet made up afterwards, or some list of trades posted in a chat window (even if in real time). In Ninja it's pretty easy. Look for the trade list records unadulterated right out of Ninja. Look for the summery records. I have heard a lot of traders complain that sim doesn't count. Well, I think that is wrong thinking. What you need to see is the trade time of entry, the target completion and the stop. Add a tick of slippage in one direction, if you like, to the trade and see what it looks like. Often, a moderator will move to sim if he has hit his daily goal. The better moderators are not at all shy about letting you know they have moved to sim. I think it very unreasonable of traders who insist that a moderator continue to endlessly trade throughout the day without some kind of stopping criteria. The concepts of over trading, pointless trading, mental fatigue, and plain stupidity come to mind if anyone thinks that trading without some kind of daily goal or quota is going to make you a better trader. On the contrary. So why should a moderator who trades his own money be forced to practice bad trading habits just because you as a member may have strolled into the trade room at 10:56 a.m. and want a winning trade. Well, guess what. By 10:56 a.m. most good traders are done for the day! So, once the daily goal is hit and if the moderator is any good, then you should not have any problems with his moving to sim. What's important is does he continue to call winning trades? Do the tools continue to give high probability setups? Can you see his trades?

 

So, now you have a room you think is going to work for you. You took the trial, you signed up for 1 month. BTW, Do not accept a room where you are required to sign up for a longer specified term...this is bs. If the room is a good room then there should exist the confidence that you will be so pleased and satisfied that you will return of your own desire.

Now, remember the part about trusting the moderators trading? This is where it is important that you accept that fact and live with it. You are not going to catch every trade call...no matter what room you are in. Its just the way it is. Hesitation, you coughed just as the trade was called, a bug distracted you...whatever...its going to happen that you will miss a couple. So, the bottom line is that to get the most out of any trade room AFTER you have done your homework and decided, is to take every room trade period.

 

You homework should already have told you the performance expectation, the style of the rooms moderating trader, the basic methodology and trade setup rules, etc. Your job now is to learn the method and the setups in great detail, practice them under guidance, and make money while you learn.

I have been in some pretty crappy rooms (now I know they were crappy) and some pretty decent rooms (of course these are the one's I abandoned because i did not have my own act together). Currently I do not need a

trade room. If you are at that point then congratulations! If not, then even if you join any trade room, remember to look forward to the day when you can graduate and trade independently, consistently successfully, and live off the profits of your hard earned accomplishment.

Edited March 25, 2009 by edabreu

[zdo 20]

Good post. Excellent rules

Some other thoughts

You will have a high probability of being attracted to a room where it turns out the moderator has the same trading issues and deficits as you… so learn from that too.

Dig deep fast. Bust your butt learning the methodology fast.

Ask really tough questions from day one. So tough the moderator will threaten to fire you…

 

Disclaimer re my actual trading room experience: In my 20+ years of trading, I have only been in one trading room for three weeks. I learned a lot quickly. I did get fired. All done with that.

 

The way to get the most out of a trading room is to get out of the trading room

[edabreu 10]

Good post. Excellent rules

Some other thoughts

You will have a high probability of being attracted to a room where it turns out the moderator has the same trading issues and deficits as you… so learn from that too.

Dig deep fast. Bust your butt learning the methodology fast.

Ask really tough questions from day one. So tough the moderator will threaten to fire you…

 

Disclaimer re my actual trading room experience: In my 20+ years of trading, I have only been in one trading room for three weeks. I learned a lot quickly. I did get fired. All done with that.

 

The way to get the most out of a trading room is to get out of the trading room

 

Yup...I got fired once too. Beware if the moderator tells you that the answer will cost you an additional $5k bucks! Good trading coaches will give you their email and let you pick their brains... Not everything you learn is going to be immediately useful. So, store some things away for a future time and concentrate on the things you need to know right now to NOT LOSE money and to make money. Add more setups slowly over time. You only need 1 or 2 high probability setups in the beginning to make money, but you absolutely must know immediately how to not lose money.

[timgallaway 10]

After more than 5 years full time trading, and about 100 trade rooms later I have a few thoughts about how to save yourself a bundle of headaches and heartaches, and maybe a few buck as you search for a trade room.

First question is why do you need a trade room? Simple answer is that in the beginning it can help you get through some of the learning curve, and you have a place for some some sympathetic response and support for your trading woes. Complicated answer is you really need guidance but cannot afford a 1 on 1 mentorship.

 

A good trade room should help you make money while you learn. Unfortunately, with 100's of methods and as many trade rooms out there, how can you wade through the junk and concentrate on the better one's?

I have a few criteria that I think are an absolute must for a real trade room where your chances of succeeding and MAKING MONEY WHILE LEARNING are high.

Number one - You must be able to see the moderating traders charts in real time.

Number two - You must be able to see the trades entered in real time either through the moderators order dom, or chart trader or some method where it is apparent that the trade was entered, filled, and managed.

Number three - You must be able to follow the trades, or at least most of them. This issues gets a bit difficult in a fast market and may need some adjusting.

To my mind there are three basic types of trading rooms. One is where it's just pure trading, minimal instruction. The other is where the education has more emphasis, and trading takes a back seat...hence few trades.

The third is a hybrid; a steady stream of trading towards a set room goal, some Q&A once the daily goal is met, and a scheduled series of ongoing educational sessions in addition to the room's daily trading.

So, first you need to decide which is right for you.

Here's a tip. If you are considering a trading education in a particular trading method because you have none of your own, then look for the education emphasis. Otherwise, if you have a few good setups you know, and

have some of your trading education already underway, then look for a trading room that will add to your knowledge, and help you make money as you learn their methods and tools. If, however, you have traded a bit

and have some tools and know some setups and yet nothing is working or going well for you, then look to the hybrid.

 

Regardless, remember the #1, #2 and #3 rule. DO NOT SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS. If a person hangs out their shingle and asks for your money in return for a service, then you better make sure that service is to your liking. If you are unable to see the trade moderators charts and his trade entries then pass that place up. It may be a good place, it may not.

But without the visual verifiable evidence you will find yourself not only having to watch your own chart, but also having to compile in your head what is happening, and keep that picture going along with all the other pressures of trading. I do not care what excuse is given...there is no excuse for not showing real time moderating trades taken in real time. Technology is not an issue, money cannot possibly be the issue, so it must be something else? Let's see...fear, exposure, stop fluffing, doubling up or bad trading habits or what? You tell me.

So, there is the absolute newbie (and it's going to be painful) who really needs a lot of luck to avoid the garbage rooms and there is the trader who is just looking to improve and there is the trader who really needs a better set of tools and methods to get him out of his funk.

So if you have found a room then the best way to research the room is to spend a few weeks just listening and watching. We are conditioned for immediate response syndrome, instant gratification syndrome and these are detremental to your trading health. We can probably all agree on that. If you do take the time to watch and listen, then keep a notebook and write down every trade call, the time and the particulars...targets hit, stops etc. and review it after market while looking at your own chart. Don't even look at your own chart while doing the assessment. Concentrate on what's going on in the room because if you decide on that room you are going to have to do the next very important thing to get the most out of the room. That is to trust the trading moderator and his trade calls. Why? Because you want to be able to make money while you learn. So your next task is to see if the room makes sense to you. Can you follow the logic of the trade moderator. If he is a really good trader, he may be a lousy moderator and vis versa. So you need to know that before you join. Look for verifiable results. Verifiable results are the trade records 1st hand...not some spreadsheet made up afterwards, or some list of trades posted in a chat window (even if in real time). In Ninja it's pretty easy. Look for the trade list records unadulterated right out of Ninja. Look for the summery records. I have heard a lot of traders complain that sim doesn't count. Well, I think that is wrong thinking. What you need to see is the trade time of entry, the target completion and the stop. Add a tick of slippage in one direction, if you like, to the trade and see what it looks like. Often, a moderator will move to sim if he has hit his daily goal. The better moderators are not at all shy about letting you know they have moved to sim. I think it very unreasonable of traders who insist that a moderator continue to endlessly trade throughout the day without some kind of stopping criteria. The concepts of over trading, pointless trading, mental fatigue, and plain stupidity come to mind if anyone thinks that trading without some kind of daily goal or quota is going to make you a better trader. On the contrary. So why should a moderator who trades his own money be forced to practice bad trading habits just because you as a member may have strolled into the trade room at 10:56 a.m. and want a winning trade. Well, guess what. By 10:56 a.m. most good traders are done for the day! So, once the daily goal is hit and if the moderator is any good, then you should not have any problems with his moving to sim. What's important is does he continue to call winning trades? Do the tools continue to give high probability setups? Can you see his trades?

 

So, now you have a room you think is going to work for you. You took the trial, you signed up for 1 month. BTW, Do not accept a room where you are required to sign up for a longer specified term...this is bs. If the room is a good room then there should exist the confidence that you will be so pleased and satisfied that you will return of your own desire.

Now, remember the part about trusting the moderators trading? This is where it is important that you accept that fact and live with it. You are not going to catch every trade call...no matter what room you are in. Its just the way it is. Hesitation, you coughed just as the trade was called, a bug distracted you...whatever...its going to happen that you will miss a couple. So, the bottom line is that to get the most out of any trade room AFTER you have done your homework and decided, is to take every room trade period.

 

You homework should already have told you the performance expectation, the style of the rooms moderating trader, the basic methodology and trade setup rules, etc. Your job now is to learn the method and the setups in great detail, practice them under guidance, and make money while you learn.

I have been in some pretty crappy rooms (now I know they were crappy) and some pretty decent rooms (of course these are the one's I abandoned because i did not have my own act together). Currently I do not need a

trade room. If you are at that point then congratulations! If not, then even if you join any trade room, remember to look forward to the day when you can graduate and trade independently, consistently successfully, and live off the profits of your hard earned accomplishment.

 

 

 

Can you please recommend some because I'm gonna go broke trying to find a legit trading room!!!! Thank you.

[DbPhoenix 42]

Can you please recommend some because I'm gonna go broke trying to find a legit trading room!!!! Thank you.

 

If you're concerned about "going broke" before you're on the road to profitability, study this companion post as well.

[timgallaway 10]

If you're concerned about "going broke" before you're on the road to profitability, study this companion post as well.

 

Thanks Db, good stuff.

[DbPhoenix 42]

Thanks Db, good stuff.

 

Glad to help:)........

[timgallaway 10]

I'm looking for a mentor or a trading room with an educational bias. I've joined several that after a few weeks it was obvious that I can be just as successful as they are on my own with basic charting setups (ie EMA and SMA, stochs and MaCD).

 

I need help. I've read so much online literature over the past 4 months my eyes are about to pop out.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Soultrader

[DbPhoenix 42]

 

I'm looking for a mentor or a trading room with an educational bias. I've joined several that after a few weeks it was obvious that I can be just as successful as they are on my own with basic charting setups (ie EMA and SMA, stochs and MaCD).

 

I need help. I've read so much online literature over the past 4 months my eyes are about to pop out.

 

Sorry your reception has been so chilly. I see you're from Afghanistan, so you probably have plenty on your plate already.

 

I also see that your only post -- other than those to this thread -- had to do with an indicator, and you mention several indicators above. I assume, then, that you're looking for an indicator-driven strategy. Have you tried to develop one of your own? One way or the other, is there some particular reason why you're looking for a mentor or room to show you how to use indicators to trade?

 

Whatever you do, expect both a mentor and a trading room moderator to demonstrate to you that they are consistently profitable, at least if they're charging you anything (if they're not charging anything, you may pick up some bad habits, but at least you won't lose much, if you're careful). This is where the opening post to this thread will come in handy. But whether you travel that route or go it alone, perhaps with the advice offered in the thread link I provided, remember that your first priority should be to hold onto your capital. Beginners are for some reason desperate to give away their money, either to gurus or to the market. Take your time. There's no hurry.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Soultrader

[timgallaway 10]

DB, dude I'm in NY.. LOL

 

Thanks for the info above.. I think what I'm looking for is someone to show me or let me know how to be profitable consistently.. on my own, I'm up and I'm down.. staying suspended and not making any money but yet thankfully not losing money. As for the mentors and rooms that I've joined.. once I allow myself to "accept" their strategy and breakaway from my own, I tend to LOSE and lose big.. and it's not because I'm not letting go of my habits.. I have no problem with that.. I just need something to learn that works.. and is consistent

 

Because quite honestly.. there is nothing worse than me letting go of my habits / basic strategy for something or someone else's strategy that doesn't work and loses money. That's like getting shot with your own gun.

 

I use X-Trader with X-Study for charting. It sucks. I need to get TS or something similar.. I think that's my starting point.

Edited April 3, 2009 by timgallaway

[DbPhoenix 42]

DB, dude I'm in NY.. LOL

 

Sorry, your profile said Afghanistan

 

BTW, speaking of indicators, you may want to look at this as well.

Edited April 3, 2009 by DbPhoenix
Add link.

[DbPhoenix 42]

I think what I'm looking for is someone to show me or let me know how to be profitable consistently.. on my own, I'm up and I'm down.. staying suspended and not making any money but yet thankfully not losing money. As for the mentors and rooms that I've joined.. once I allow myself to "accept" their strategy and breakaway from my own, I tend to LOSE and lose big.. and it's not because I'm not letting go of my habits.. I have no problem with that.. I just need something to learn that works.. and is consistent

 

Because quite honestly.. there is nothing worse than me letting go of my habits / basic strategy for something or someone else's strategy that doesn't work and loses money. That's like getting shot with your own gun.

 

I use X-Trader with X-Study for charting. It sucks. I need to get TS or something similar.. I think that's my starting point.

 

We appear to be playing post tag.

 

Rather than search for rooms, perhaps you'd be willing to open up a journal thread or a blog and post a few charts showing what you're doing and why. Then at least those who are interested would be able to give you something more than the usual hypothetical theoretical generalizations like "cut your losses short". If not, someone might at least be able to route you toward a room that uses the same indicators in which you're interested.

[edabreu 10]

Can you please recommend some because I'm gonna go broke trying to find a legit trading room!!!! Thank you.

 

 

oH BOY...ANOTHER RECOMMENDATION REQUEST.

 

Firstly, why do you think you need a trade room anyways? Are you impatient? Are you trading live without first having tested your trade setups? Are you pushing an age where you think time is running out? Do you think that you are incapable of devising a method and trade setups yourself? Have you been un-willing to follow the advise of this and other good forums, to start slowly, testing and re-testing before you started trading your cash? Have you kept a comprehensive journal and do you know what kind of trader you are? Are you a scalper, a swing trader, trend trader,, etc?

I do not mean to be mean, but no trade room is not going to help you if you are already losing your shirt trading live when you should not be.

 

From your statement and request I can only recommend that you do one or more of the following.

 

Stop trading cash.

Stop looking for a room.

 

Take a close look at the defined trade setups you are using. Do you know their performance rate?

Can you answer the question about the type of trader you are? Which is it?

Are you employing the right method for that type of trader?

Have you passed any kind of strict performance test with regards to your trade sets and methods and style?

 

The only most legit reason I can think of for not doing all the work required is that you are pushing 60 and you feel you are running out of time. Then you may need a mentor. There are lots of trader's here who may be willing to help you. But none of them are going to do the work for you because there is no way they can. Really. Every trader has to learn who they are as a trader, their risk tolerance, and develop their own style.

However, you can look over the shoulder of a successful trader and copy them until you learn something of your own approach and develop as a trader.

 

The cold hard reality is that not everyone is cut out to be a trader, just like not everyone is cut out to be a surgeon, pilot, bus driver, or nanny. But some professions are easier than others. This is not one of the easy one's.

I would be doing you a dis-service if I told you anything different.

 

If you need to make money and think this is the way, then the other option is to let someone else trade your money for you. This can be another can of worms, but it's a better chance than continuing to trade yourself and lose all your money.

 

If time and the need for income is the issue, consider the managed accounts option while you are learning to do this yourself. You will be giving away most of your gains, and you will need to do some serious indepth homework to find a safe systems program (if one even exists) that is publically available. The better one's are usually private, with very high minimum account requirements, and moderate but consistently profitable returns.

 

Now, having said all that...there is no way I am going to recommend a trade room. I know of 2 people who would pounce all over any recommendation and I have no desire to go through that again.

 

However there are a couple of excellent rooms out there.

Take your time to qualify all the rooms you have attended. Use the trade rooms guidelines post and you may have a chance of finding a decent one with a serious coach who rather than try to impress you with his trading, focuses on your ability to make money in their room as you develop into an independent trader.

If one of the previous rooms you visited qualifies, try returning there and observe again very closely focusing on what is being done. Could be the first time you approached it all wrong, as in trading cash when you should not have been. Re-qualify it using the guidelines.

 

Let me know of your answers to those questions. If you don't have very clear precise answers, then those are some of the reason's you are not having success.

 

This brings me to my final point about trade rooms. As in methods and indicators, and most all else about trading... what works for me may not work for you. Do not take anyone elses opinion about anything as defacto truth. You and you alone have the burden of discovering what works for you. IF trade rooms is what you need, then only you know that. If mentorship is what you need, then only you know that. If managed accounts is for you, only you know that. No one else has 'your' right answer. We can only say what has worked for us, and what still works for us.

[stevethetrader 10]

Not very good stuff unless you tell us where there is a room with those criteria?????

[stevethetrader 10]

So you give LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of advice but no "guidance" WHATSOEVER. is there really such a room?????? WHERE?????

[stevethetrader 10]

would you like to talk about these issues thru private message??? I have many of the same veiws but a little bit different conclusions.

[stevethetrader 10]

Rooms like that would be great if any existed....... Can I see your trades for a day????

[86834 10]

have a look at my blog if you're after some guidance

http://868347.blogspot.com/

[stevethetrader 10]

Question....... can I see your trades for a day????

[stevethetrader 10]

Im looking for a real live person to have a conversation with.........

[86834 10]

No but you can read about me in the june print of stocks and commodities magazine.

 

I haven't had time to read through the whole thread, but if you're only going take advice of someone who will show you their personal financial statements so you can see how much money they have then you're gonna be looking for a long time. I share the trades i take on the blog and often post the trades live, for example i''ll make a post of the market as a level forms, then later on when the trades comes into play, with the profit target and a chart showing the target met.

 

Can i see your bank statements?

[stevethetrader 10]

so if these traderts are so great why wont they share there trdes FOR ONE DAY and let the proof be in the pudding???????????????????????

[stevethetrader 10]

I suppose "truth" is in the eye of the beholder for these salesmen.

[sevensa 10]

stevethetrader, do you know that you can have multiple sentences per post? You don't have to create a new post for every sentence.

[edabreu 10]

so if these traderts are so great why wont they share there trdes FOR ONE DAY and let the proof be in the pudding???????????????????????

 

Tonights ES trade.

 

Looking for a rally to start up to 920's sometime soon.