Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

taks1990

Confusion Re Mind Over Markets - Pls Help!

Recommended Posts

Hi guys

 

I'm currently reading MOM for the third time, trying to digest as much as possible, and am confused by a point James Dalton raises.

 

High volume represents acceptance of price, and can be found in balancing areas. Conversely, low volume represents rejection by other time frame participants and is more likely in unbalanced, trending markets.

 

My confusion is that although low volume is associated with trending markets, Dalton says that trends have to have increasing/fair/healthy volume to be sustained, so the two principles contradict each other don’t they?

 

Sorry to ask about such a trivial point but it is important for my understanding of the concepts underlying MP.

 

Thanks all

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They do contradict each other if you are looking at them in the same moment of time reference.

 

However, the observation of high volume representing of acceptance is an after the fact observation. Where the increasing of volume during a trend is a real time observation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have to think somehow at 2 different kind of volume : volume on horizontal axis and volume on vertical axis.

"High volume represents acceptance of price, and can be found in balancing areas" this is true on the horizontal axis (so basically when a price has many "letters" and doesn't move too much). Generally in this case the volume on vertical axis is low, and that's why price range.

"..trends have to have increasing/fair/healthy volume to be sustained" this is true on the vertical axis (the classic volume you have on all chart) and is normally associated with low volume on the horizontal axis (as price has the momentum to move and not range) as Dalton says "low volume represents rejection".

 

Hope I managed to explain myself ....

 

Fedeo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  taks1990 said:
High volume represents acceptance of price, and can be found in balancing areas
correct, acceptance of price. a lot of volume will be concentrated within a small range of prices.

 

  taks1990 said:
Conversely, low volume represents rejection by other time frame participants and is more likely in unbalanced, trending markets.
correct, no price or prices really stand out as accepted. here it is the direction, not concentrated prices, that is accepted.

 

  taks1990 said:
My confusion is that although low volume is associated with trending markets, Dalton says that trends have to have increasing/fair/healthy volume to be sustained, so the two principles contradict each other don’t they?
the high volume is within the context of recent sessions, not any particular price level within a single session. when there is strong/healthy volume and a trendy day, you should see volume pretty fairly distributed across the prices. it is unlikely that a significant POC will emerge.

 

  taks1990 said:
Sorry to ask about such a trivial point but it is important for my understanding of the concepts underlying MP.

 

no worries, i think just about everyone here has a desire to advance their own market understanding and help others do the same. traders helping traders :)

 

hth

 

thanks and take care -

 

omni

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

try to post the context (or page number) and maybe can see more exactly what he is saying but here is first thought..

 

in Markets In Profile, his next book, he goes into the 'inventory positions' of the various timeframes. if the inventory positions are not in balance, say too many shorts relative to 'typical carried inventory' -- then price can auction up just due to lack of sellers (low volume). this happened yesterday actually.

 

always go back to thinking about a brick and mortar 'auction'... except have to adjust thinking to a '2-way auction' --- like there all these participants at the auction that generally hold X or Y or Z levels of inventory. if they are all 'under their normal' (think mutual funds aren't supposed to hold more than 5% cash - say they are all holding 10% cash), then just a lack of selling can get them to start raising their paddles as they try to get cash levels back to 'normal'. they don't want to 'chase' the market higher so they back off as price goes up -- trying to be patient and keeping a lid on volume.

 

dalton also makes the point that lows are often made on low volume -- and that it is the SURGE of buying volume that takes prices back up. that is also in markets in profile. I did a book review here in this thread on the 2nd book. The second book explains a lot of things more clearly --- Mind Over Markets is very poorly written from a literature sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Thx for reminding us... I don't bang that drum often enough anymore Another part for consideration is who that money initially went to...
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • How long does it take to receive HFM's withdrawal via Skrill? less than 24H?
    • My wife Robin just wanted some groceries.   Simple enough.   She parked the car for fifteen minutes, and returned to find a huge scratch on the side.   Someone keyed her car.   To be clear, this isn’t just any car.   It’s a Cybertruck—Elon Musk's stainless-steel spaceship on wheels. She bought it back in 2021, before Musk became everyone's favorite villain or savior.   Someone saw it parked in a grocery lot and felt compelled to carve their hatred directly into the metal.   That's what happens when you stand out.   Nobody keys a beige minivan.   When you're polarizing, you're impossible to ignore. But the irony is: the more attention something has, the harder it is to find the truth about it.   What’s Elon Musk really thinking? What are his plans? What will happen with DOGE? Is he deserving of all of this adoration and hate? Hard to say.   Ideas work the same way.   Take tariffs, for example.   Tariffs have become the Cybertrucks of economic policy. People either love them or hate them. Even if they don’t understand what they are and how they work. (Most don’t.)   That’s why, in my latest podcast (link below), I wanted to explore the “in-between” truth about tariffs.   And like Cybertrucks, I guess my thoughts on tariffs are polarizing.   Greg Gutfield mentioned me on Fox News. Harvard professors hate me now. (I wonder if they also key Cybertrucks?)   But before I show you what I think about tariffs… I have to mention something.   We’re Headed to Austin, Texas This weekend, my team and I are headed to Austin. By now, you should probably know why.   Yes, SXSW is happening. But my team and I are doing something I think is even better.   We’re putting on a FREE event on “Tech’s Turning Point.”   AI, quantum, biotech, crypto, and more—it’s all on the table.   Just now, we posted a special webpage with the agenda.   Click here to check it out and add it to your calendar.   The Truth About Tariffs People love to panic about tariffs causing inflation.   They wave around the ghost of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff from the Great Depression like it’s Exhibit A proving tariffs equal economic collapse.   But let me pop this myth:   Tariffs don’t cause inflation. And no, I'm not crazy (despite what angry professors from Harvard or Stanford might tweet at me).   Here's the deal.   Inflation isn’t when just a couple of things become pricier. It’s when your entire shopping basket—eggs, shirts, Netflix subscriptions, bananas, everything—starts costing more because your money’s worth less.   Inflation means your dollars aren’t stretching as far as they used to.   Take the 1800s.   For nearly a century, 97% of America’s revenue came from tariffs. Income tax? Didn’t exist. And guess what inflation was? Basically zero. Maybe 1% a year.   The economy was booming, and tariffs funded nearly everything. So, why do people suddenly think tariffs cause inflation today?   Tariffs are taxes on imports, yes, but prices are set by supply and demand—not tariffs.   Let me give you a simple example.   Imagine fancy potato chips from Canada cost $10, and a 20% tariff pushes that to $12. Everyone panics—prices rose! Inflation!   Nope.   If I only have $100 to spend and the price of my favorite chips goes up, I either stop buying chips or I buy, say, fewer newspapers.   If everyone stops buying newspapers because they’re overspending on chips, newspapers lower their prices or go out of business.   Overall spending stays the same, and inflation doesn’t budge.   Three quick scenarios:   We buy pricier chips, but fewer other things: Inflation unchanged. Manufacturers shift to the U.S. to avoid tariffs: Inflation unchanged (and more jobs here). We stop buying fancy chips: Prices drop again. Inflation? Still unchanged. The only thing that actually causes inflation is printing money.   Between 2020 and 2022 alone, 40% of all money ever created in history appeared overnight.   That’s why inflation shot up afterward—not because of tariffs.   Back to tariffs today.   Still No Inflation Unlike the infamous Smoot-Hawley blanket tariff (imagine Oprah handing out tariffs: "You get a tariff, and you get a tariff!"), today's tariffs are strategic.   Trump slapped tariffs on chips from Taiwan because we shouldn’t rely on a single foreign supplier for vital tech components—especially if that supplier might get invaded.   Now Taiwan Semiconductor is investing $100 billion in American manufacturing.   Strategic win, no inflation.   Then there’s Canada and Mexico—our friendly neighbors with weirdly huge tariffs on things like milk and butter (299% tariff on butter—really, Canada?).   Trump’s not blanketing everything with tariffs; he’s pressuring trade partners to lower theirs.   If they do, everybody wins. If they don’t, well, then we have a strategic trade chess game—but still no inflation.   In short, tariffs are about strategy, security, and fairness—not inflation.   Yes, blanket tariffs from the Great Depression era were dumb. Obviously. Today's targeted tariffs? Smart.   Listen to the whole podcast to hear why I think this.   And by the way, if you see a Cybertruck, don’t key it. Robin doesn’t care about your politics; she just likes her weird truck.   Maybe read a good book, relax, and leave cars alone.   (And yes, nobody keys Volkswagens, even though they were basically created by Hitler. Strange world we live in.) Source: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/the-truth-about-tariffs-busting-the-inflation-myth    Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/       
    • No, not if you are comparing apples to apples. What we call “poor” is obviously a pretty high bar but if you’re talking about like a total homeless shambling skexie in like San Fran then, no. The U.S.A. in not particularly kind to you. It is not an abuse so much as it is a sad relatively minor consequence of our optimism and industriousness.   What you consider rich changes with circumstances obviously. If you are genuinely poor in the U.S.A., you experience a quirky hodgepodge of unhelpful and/or abstract extreme lavishnesses while also being alienated from your social support network. It’s about the same as being a refugee. For a fraction of the ‘kindness’ available to you in non bio-available form, you could have simply stayed closer to your people and been MUCH better off.   It’s just a quirk of how we run the place and our values; we are more worried about interfering with people’s liberty and natural inclination to do for themselves than we are about no bums left behind. It is a slightly hurtful position and we know it; we are just scared to death of socialism cancer and we’re willing to put our money where our mouth is.   So, if you’re a bum; you got 5G, the ER will spend like $1,000,000 on you over a hangnail but then kick you out as soon as you’re “stabilized”, the logistics are surpremely efficient, you have total unchecked freedom of speech, real-estate, motels, and jobs are all natural healthy markets in perfect competition, you got compulsory three ‘R’’s, your military owns the sky, sea, space, night, information-space, and has the best hairdos, you can fill out paper and get all the stuff up to and including a Ph.D. Pretty much everything a very generous, eager, flawless go-getter with five minutes to spare would think you might need.   It’s worse. Our whole society is competitive and we do NOT value or make any kumbaya exception. The last kumbaya types we had werr the Shakers and they literally went extinct. Pueblo peoples are still around but they kind of don’t count since they were here before us. So basically, if you’re poor in the U.S.A., you are automatically a loser and a deadbeat too. You will be treated as such by anybody not specifically either paid to deal with you or shysters selling bejesus, Amway, and drugs. Plus, it ain’t safe out there. Not everybody uses muhfreedoms to lift their truck, people be thugging and bums are very vulnerable here. The history of a large mobile workforce means nobody has a village to go home to. Source: https://askdaddy.quora.com/Are-the-poor-people-in-the-United-States-the-richest-poor-people-in-the-world-6   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.