Sustaining Focus and Concentration

[evolved trader 10]

I was trading this morning and through an experience a question arose.

 

For all you day traders out there how long of a time frame are you able to trade while still feeling focused and centered? Especially when you’re waiting for a setup to form that’s taking a little longer than expected.

 

Have you ever found yourself being sidetrack doing other tasks on the computer? Emailing, or reading other websites (Bloomberg).

 

I usually trade live for about 5 hours in the morning. However I’ve found my level of focus and intensity fades in and out while waiting in between trades to setup. This will sometime cause me to “miss” a move because I wasn’t

mentally in the space to take the trade.

 

Does anyone have some tips to stay in tune with the market while things are a bit slower? What approaches do you all take? Do you only focus on trading for the 4-5 hours straight and eliminating any other tasks?

 

Maybe you get away from the screen for a few minutes to keep fresh?

 

Any suggestion our thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

-Ryan

[Eiger 10]

FIve hours at one clip is pretty hard to sustain. In trading the S&P eminis, the market starts to slow down a bit after 11:00-11:30 on most days. The noon hour is usually very slow. These are good time to take breaks. Schedule a break at least every hour and one-half. It is a good idea to be flexible in this - if the market is moving you don't want to have to take a break. So, schedue breaks in a window, say every 60-90 minutes, depending on your market. When you take a break, do it for 10-minutes or so and get out of your chair and do something different in a different place (take a short walk, get a snack, etc). Getting away from the screen helps you to be more refreshed coming back. Also, if you have scheduled breaks, you can then better notice when you drift off and go check email, surf the net, or look at other markets, etc. It is a bit easier to bring yourself back when a break is not too far away.

 

Another thing I have found very useful (as have other traders I know) is mindfulness excercises. Mindfuness is all about focus and concentration. Like becoming proficient in reading the chart, you can train your mind to greater levels of concentraion and focus. There are lots of other benefits to mindfulness, as well. Google it and you'll find stuff out there. Send me a PM and I will send some helpful mindfulness excercises, if you like.

 

Eiger

[Wes 10]

Trade with a buddy. Be it a live buddy in-person or on the phone or on internet messenger or video chat, or a trader chat room of some kind. It's an extra set of eyes on the market, and even when you're distracted, that distraction will hopefully be related to the market in some way. Or, if you get distracted, you have someone to smack you into shape again. Hedge funds have teams of people trading against you, so you may as well have a team, too.

 

Some people work better without others around, of course. ymmv.

 

Most everyone needs a break now and then. Nothing wrong with taking a decent lunch break, or any other short break, really. That's kind of the point of not having a boss. The only thing with breaks is it's up to you whether to take one while you're in a trade or not. Confidence in your position is great until taking a 20-minute lunch costs you thousand of dollars. :bang head:

 

If you're distracted and not really paying attention, there's a higher chance of making a mistake, so you may as well take a complete break until you can focus again. And if you miss an opportunity during that break, oh well. Staying out of it beats half-assing it. And maybe missing some good opportunities will give you incentive to stay more focused.

 

If none of that works, think about what it would be like to have a "real" job you completely hate like 95% of everyone in the world does. That might be good motivation.

[brownsfan019 17]

Ryan - I have the very same problem at times and is part of the reason I started this thread.

 

Here's some ideas:

 

1) Depending on your markets being traded, you may need to find your personal sweet spot. What I mean is that while the market is basically open 24/7 (and a focus from 930am-4pm) there's a lot of hours in there to trade. Unless you program your system, you cannot possibly sustain long periods of trading and focus IMO. So instead of trying to force a square peg in a round hole, take a step back and see WHEN you trade your BEST. Then, focus on that timeframe as your starting point.

 

I'll give the best example I can think of right now - I used to be the guy that wanted to trade 8am-415pm on the ES. Wanted to take every trade I saw and make $10k+ per day like it was nothing. Honest to God. At some point I realized that I personally cannot sit and trade from 8am-415pm, Mon-Fri. Not only do I lack the focus, but I'm pretty sure I have some sort of case of ADD where during slow times my mind wanders like you wouldn't believe. The internet is a marvelous place to get lost and kill hours of time.

 

Finally one day I just took a step back and said - ENOUGH. I PROVED that I cannot trade all day, every day. Once you've proved to yourself that you cannot do that, find what works for you. We are conditioned from a young age that a 'full work day' consists of working at least 9am-5pm per day, if not longer. Our brain is conditioned to believe you must work longer and harder to make more money....

 

Well, I found out the long and expensive way that belief does not hold true in trading. While there are some machines & people that can do it, I can't!

 

What this meant for my trading was focusing on the AM (8am-noon) and that's it. And from there I narrowed my primary trading choice to bonds that have some great moves in the AM and some days can easily create a great day by 10am or sooner. As a matter of fact, I was just mentioning in the TL chat room on Tue morning w/ another bond trader (we were only 2 in room) that my day had pretty much been done before the index guys even showed up.

 

2) Once you've found your sweet spot, then it's a matter of doing it in the allotted time. I still have issues with this and today's post showed that. I wish I could give you the magical formula to keep you focused, but I am still looking for it myself.

3) From there you can argue that only working the charts during your allotted timeframe is what you should be doing. Whether you only have the charts going or not, you need to work on developing a focus during the timeframe that you have available. I try to tell myself that I only have 4 hours per day to do my job, so I better do it good. That works most days.

 

4) The purpose of the P/L thread is to create accountability. You need to make yourself accountable to someone or something. For me, using a public forum is an added motivation to get the job done as I had hit a rut w/ just going through the motions. If you are married, get your wife involved. If not, then find someone or some avenue where you know you have to tell them how you did today. I'd welcome you to our P/L thread and YOU post what YOU want. It can be as simple as - Plan followed: Y/N. What you post is up to you. But get accountable somewhere.

 

In the end, it's something some of us battle with and it's not easy. I've actually considered doing more research on the subject to see what else is out there to help in this area - whether being exercises, supplements, etc. I haven't done it yet though... just not focused enough I guess.

[evolved trader 10]

Eiger

 

I really like that process. It's simple. I'm going to apply that tomorrow. I'll set time my breaks for every 60-90 minutes depending on the market conditions.

 

Great advice, this will help me break the day up a bit.

 

Wes

 

Another great idea. Something I intend on doing in the near future. Great point about the Hedge Funds.

 

I've learned working from home alone takes disipline. It's really a matter of me treating trading as a business. If I miss an opportunity one day, its usually becasue was distracted by something else on the net.

[evolved trader 10]

Hey BrownsFan

 

Great reply as always. Good to know I'm not alone. I'm very similar in the sense I know at a whim what signals my edge is giving me, however my attention may only be about 60% at the time.

 

Accountability is huge, and something I'll do starting tonight. Thanks for the reminder. I have a friend I can use over email. I appreciate the invite!

 

I definetly know me "sweet spots". So I'll work my "breaks" around those times. Proably go for a quick 5 minute walk down the street.

 

I find getting away from the screen and into some form of nature refreshing...

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

-Ryan

[BlowFish 10]

A lot depends on the nature (frequency) of your trading. Does one really need to watch every bar form? Watch every tick if you like. if you are taking many trades an hour that last from seconds to minutes, maybe. Under those circumstances it's not too hard o focus though momentary distractions (like a phone) can be a problem. If however, you are trying to catch the main intraday swings, set some alarms on your platform and go and do something else.

 

How do you trade do you really need to concentrate all the time or just at key junctures?

 

I have to ask is there some psychological issue going on. I often used to find that I was looking at email or doing something else right around places I needed to take action (usually to enter). It was a subtle avoidance mechanism the old subconscious doing its best to 'protect me'. Could that be going on with you?

 

Just a couple of thoughts.

[traderpsyches 10]

In Chicago at CME right now with not a lot of time but short version - take lots of breaks. Get away from the stimulation of the trade, do jumping jacks, take a walk... yes once in awhile you will miss a great set up but the fear and frustration of that reality is the emotional architecture behind the worst trades.

 

If you manage first and foremost to your psychological capital - energy, mood etc... the rest will take care of itself presuming you have a decent trading strategy and tactics pre-planned.

 

Sorry for short reply -

[jonbig04 10]

"you will miss a great set up but the fear and frustration of that reality is the emotional architecture behind the worst trades."

 

well said

[minoo 11]

http://www.traderdna.com/learningCenter/articles.html

Read Whats missing in Trading Psychology

Other articles are good too.

 

Ta Minoo

[Eiger 10]

http://www.traderdna.com/learningCenter/articles.html

Read Whats missing in Trading Psychology ...

Ta Minoo

 

He's right. Goals, imagery and positive self-talk (affirmations) have little impact on performance. A recent analysis of all published studies assessing setting goals, guided imagery, self-talk, and other 'traditional' interventions showed no effect on performance. A few studies that used some of these in combination showed some positive outcomes, but there are too few studies to call the combinations reliable. This was conducted by Zella Moore (2008), a sport psychologist, and was well-researched.

 

Mindfulness is different. Good research shows positive effects on performance. With practice, mindfulness improves attention and concentration. Notably, it does not change negative thoughts. It does, however, give you some distance from what your mind is telling you. With practice, you can see thoughts for what they are - just thoughts, not necessarily reality or the truth.

 

Most of us are 'fused' with our thoughts, meaning we tend to buy into whatever our mind is telling us. Here's a good example: You enter a trade and it begins to show profit. As soon as it does, the mind is saying, "Hey, you better take your profit before it turns against you. Don't be foolish, just take the profit." And, so you do. You get a small profit and then watch as the market goes further in your direction. You've cut your winner short. And, what does your mind tell you now? "Idiot, you should have stayed in. Look at all the profit you missed. Will you ever learn?!" Which do you believe? The unfortunate truth for many is that we believe both!

 

Mindfulness allows for us to decenter from all that the mind is telling us and take a different perspective - one of observing our thoughts rather than inviting them in for tea. Facinating research with elite atheletes is showing that a significant difference betwen the elite and the average athelete is in their level of cognitive activity (i.e., the amount of their thoughts). It is not that the elite don't have anxious and other negative thoughts. They do. They have just learned over years of practice and performance not to buy into them. They turn their attention to the performance task-at-hand rather than focus on their thoughts (which helps keep the level of thoughts lower). We now know that things like mindfulness can aid in and accelerate this process.

 

Eiger

[cowseathay 10]

Hi Eiger,

 

Thanks for that post. Could you possibly point me to some resources about mindfulness without all the mumbo jumbo--just in plain English? Also, if you still have the sources to the research about the cognitive activity with athletes, could you cite the articles here?

 

Thanks a lot.

Edited March 14, 2009 by cowseathay

[Tasuki 10]

My best answers to a wandering concentration are:

1) breathing exercises

2) pandora.com

God I love that website. I have created a bunch of "stations" that suit me personally for keeping my attention:

Johann Sebastian Bach station

Antonio Soler station

Luigi Boccherini station

Sylvius Leopold Weiss station

 

The latter station is all lute music, which I personally find very calming. Heaven knows, you might find Led Zeppelin calming. Whatever keeps you focussed yet calmed, that's the key, and Pandora is wonderful for this.

 

Breathing exercises require some sort of training in yoga to do them right. Both the Hindus and the Buddhists excel in this sort of thing. Personally, I do the Hong Sau technique taught by Paramahansa Yogananda.

[Eiger 10]

Hi Eiger,

 

Thanks for that post. Could you possibly point me to some resources about mindfulness without all the mumbo jumbo--just in plain English? Also, if you still have the sources to the research about the cognitive activity with athletes, could you cite the articles here?

 

Thanks a lot.

 

You can send a PM with email and I will forward to you a couple of mindfulness exercises I use with traders. It will take a few days, though, as my main computer and backup drive are at the tech's being worked on.

 

I'd be happy to list the articles, but there are many and unless you have access to a major university library system that includes a strong emphasis on medicine, science and psychology, it won't be very helpful to you as the journal titles will seem obscure.

 

The main point of the research to date is that elite performance is associated with lower levels of left-hemisphere cortical activity during performance and training activities. It is a distinguishing characteristic of elite performance. The left cortex is associated with verbal-linguistic activity, which is simply a precise way of saying that the left side of the brain is where most of our thinking occurs. High levels of thinking, however, hinder performance primarily because attention is directed away from the performance task and towards one's private experiences of thoughts, emotions, and sensations. Worry and anxious thoughts create very high levels of verbal-linguistic activity (thoughts) which occur in the left-hemisphere cortical areas. Mindfulness has been shown to reduce cortical activity in general, and appears to be especially useful with worry and anxious thoughts. Greater awareness of one's own attentional process is also fostered by mindfulness. What all this means is that through mindfulness practice, a trader can reduce overall worry and anxiety, and when performance-hindering thoughts do occur, the mindful trader is better able to notice them without becoming ensnared by them, and then to self-regulate where they put their attention -- either on their worries and anxious thoughts or on what needs to be done to manage the trade. This helps align them mentally with other high level performers.

 

Hope this is helpful,

 

Eiger

[Eiger 10]

My best answers to a wandering concentration are:

1) breathing exercises

2) pandora.com

God I love that website....

 

The breath is a classic point of focus for mindfulness and meditation. Whenever you notice your mind wandering into an unwanted or disrupting space, focus on your breath. Yoga and pranyama (yogic breathing) is really not about the postures, but all about preparing the body and mind for meditation. Yoga has a 3,000+ year tradition in the study of the mind and consciousness, and has a lot to offer in this regard.

 

Pandora - what a cool site - thanks for this

[zdo 20]

cowseathay, et al,

 

If you need, PM me with an off forum email and I can send you a plain english guide to mindfulness.

[joseph000 10]

I take regular breaks throughout the trading day. A routine is helpful i.e.

11:30 check out trader chat rooms; 11:55 lunch and etc...

 

Two important items to always keep me connected even while on break:

1. Audible alarms: I have alerts that will signal me when a trade set-up is within range. This signal tells me to "get back to work". I may be in the next room or even shooting a game of pool to relax. But, when I hear that signal, I will literally run as if it were fire drill! Laughing at yourself is great way to ease the nerves and back into the market.

 

2. Stop watch: if I need to take a 5-minute break or pit stop I will literally use a stopwatch to time me- the watch hangs around my neck. This keeps me honest and to avoid distractions.

 

I hope that this helps!

[SwingTradinJay 10]

Copious amounts of Cocaine should help your concentration! Heavy doses of Amphetamines should do the trick! Just kidding of course!

I prefer a stiff coffee or energy drink to keep my mind on matters. It also helps when you may be feeling a bit sluggish. Make sure you have had your breakfast.

 

I have 2 monitors so I can multitask. I'll have my chart of what I'm trading on one screen, and I'll be playing poker/utube'ing/e-mailing/chatting on the other one...So when you're ready to pounce you won't miss it. You can't trade every opportunity, just keep yourself prepared...and if you're a scalper, there's NO such thing as a "missed opportunity" because the patterns repeat dozens of times a day.

 

I think a few distractions are ok, because sometimes the sidelines can be a good place to hang. It's unrealistic to trade everything...I trade FX, so I must make sure I'm always watching, but only trading PEAK hours/setups.

[traderpsyches 10]

Trading is a very physical business - as well as a psychological one... just like everyone needs to find their instruments and timeframes that best suit their thought process, everyone needs to "workout" and rest accordingly.

 

This is one of the core problems with the concept have creating a plan and following it AND EVERY TRADE to the letter... you can't get every trade because your brain doesn't have the energy... and if you try, you take ones that aren't so great and further degrade your mental energy ... or what as you know we call Psych Cap.

 

It is one of those things that falls under the rubric "Well the reality is...."

 

DKS aka TP