Trader P/L 2009

[HAL9000 10]

But as traders aren't we enemies? Why help eachother out and make our enemy stronger, when the point of trading is to win?

 

Abe,

 

my conclusion on your question would be, that every post, not misleading others, would be one to much.

 

But somehow, why not just share something, just the things you like;

this is a lonely business, and there is enough on the table to eat.

 

All of my life, I tried to be honest, and I will go on with this.

I post my opinion, not misleading, or I stay quiet (i.e. I don't lie!).

 

But, whenever I finally have success, I will be able to enjoy it,

helping poor people who never had a choice.

 

Or in other words, I try to stay clean, just going my way.

 

How should I say; greed is not my problem.

 

 

Regards,

 

Hal

 

 

P.S.: If everybody is misleading everybody, why do such forums exist?

 

Why are you still here? (I ask in peace, as food for thought.)

Edited August 16, 2009 by HAL9000
;_) As always. Anyone -> everybody!

[AbeSmith 10]

Abe,

 

my conclusion on your question would be, that every post, not misleading others, would be one to much.

 

But somehow, why not just share something, just the the things you like;

this is a lonely business, and there is enough on the table to eat.

 

All my my life, I tried to be honest, and I will go on with this.

I post my opinion, not misleading, or I stay quiet (i.e. I don't lie!).

 

But, whenever I finally have success, I will be able to enjoy it,

helping poor people who never had a choice.

 

Or in other words, I try to stay clean, just going my way.

 

How should I say; greed is not my problem.

 

 

Regards,

 

Hal

 

 

P.S.: If anyone is misleading anyone, why do such forums exist?

 

Why are you still here? (I ask in peace, as food for thought.)

 

The answer to your question of why such forums exists, is because humans are social creatures. Other transactions between humans are for the most part not so one sided. You pay a carpenter for services, and chances are you both come out winners. In trading, one is the loser and one the winner. I think people come to these forums because by nature, there is a social, symbiotic side to humans, eventhough the trading profession does not appear to me to be symbiotic, except trades done between hedgers and traders.

[thalestrader 14]

If a trader helps other traders out on how to make money then there is too many people doing the same thing, and the method won't work anymore.

 

Richard Dennis once said that he could publish his trading system in the Wall Street Journal, and it would not attract enough adherents who applied it properly and consistently enought to change its effectivenes.

 

I think he is absolutely correct.

 

For every winner there is a loser in the market, so helping other traders out is helping your enemy. That's the way I see it. I hope I'm wrong.

 

There is not a winner for every loser.

 

For every winner there are many losers! And there are more than enough losers (witness Mightymouse and his many daytrading friends) to fund the few who win consistently.

 

The only enemy you need to conquer is within your own soul.

 

I was helped by a few folks, and none of them have suffered for it.

 

I like to think that I have helped a few folks in turn as well. I have not suffered any ill as a consequence.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[bathrobe 10]

 

Or in other words, I try to stay clean, just going my way.

 

How should I say; greed is not my problem.

 

 

Regards,

 

Hal

 

 

 

This is admirable, especially in this business. For me I am sad to say it seems as though it is never enough. There is always someone higher up on the ladder to compete with, I have realized the problem this creates and have tried to take a step back and simply be happy with the way things are but there is always this kind of competition.

 

As for helping other traders, I don't think even if you trained many on your exact method, I don't think they would all be able to carry it out because they are all individuals who think in their own way, I also think most markets are simply too big for it to ever matter.

[AbeSmith 10]

Richard Dennis once said that he could publish his trading system in the Wall Street Journal, and it would not attract enough adherents who applied it properly and consistently enought to change its effectivenes.

 

I think he is absolutely correct.

 

 

 

There is not a winner for every loser.

 

For every winner there are many losers! And there are more than enough losers (witness Mightymouse and his many daytrading friends) to fund the few who win consistently.

 

The only enemy you need to conquer is within your own soul.

 

I was helped by a few folks, and none of them have suffered for it.

 

I like to think that I have helped a few folks in turn as well. I have not suffered any ill as a consequence.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

I admire your nice mentality, but I'm not convinced that traders are not enemies. The few folks who helped you might not have suffered from it. But then, someone suffered from your success.

[thalestrader 14]

If a trader helps other traders out on how to make money then there is too many people doing the same thing, and the method won't work anymore.

 

For example, I have shared here in this thread and elsewhere on TL exactly how I daytrade stocks. I have sent detailed emails and pm's to a good number of folks here at TL explaining it further (and anyone of them reading this can vouch that at no time did I ever ask for or imply that any compensation was desired, expected, or anticipated, or whatever in exchange for the information).

 

I have personal friends with whom I have shared the method. I beleive I could publish an article detailing exactly how I day trade stocks in S&C magazine, and it would not change the effectiveness of that method at all.

 

Some of those traders with whom I have shared it with are doing fabulously well with it.

 

Some others have tried it and abandoned after a period of time, some quickly, and others anfter painfully long self-punishment attempting to implement it.

 

And yet others take the same entries on the same stocks as I do, and yet they finish the day with a loss and I finish with a profit.

 

Why?

 

Because the mechanics of trading are easy.

 

Self-control is difficult.

 

I have mentioned my good friend the spot/futures currency trader, who is fond of quoting Jessie Livermore as saying something to the effect that most men lose on Wall Street not because they don't have brains but because they can't sit tight. They cannot control themselves. The cut profits, and let losers run.

 

How many times has it been said that the Holy Grail exists, and to find it you have only to look in the mirro, as the Holy Grailis within each and every one of us. It is up to each individual to access the grail or not.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[MightyMouse 12]

I avoid it like the plague because it attracts mostly folks with an attitude similar to the one you displayed in your initial post to this thread.

 

You know the old saying, "Birds of feather ..."

 

and of course that other old saw that "Misery loves company." Seems to me you'd fit in better over there.

 

No need to bring your miserable suspicions here. I have not seen one person posting here in this thread attempt to sell anyone anything. If someone were to do so, then we'd react. You, on the other hand, assume us guilty until proven innocent. Again, that is the ET mentality, not TL.

 

The fact that you, and apparently all the day traders whom you profess to know have yet to learn to trade consistently is no fault of ours. Don't expect us to wear your black eyes.

 

Not miserable at all. Realistic is more like it.

 

Oh no they make money consistently and a couple trade large size; it's just that they don't have back to back to back to back days with 100 trades in a row with no loses. Forgive me; I am just not used to seeing such incredible results from so many people. I guess if I want to keep visiting this thread I’ll have to get used to it..

 

Personally, I am currently down slightly for the year. I guess I am the loser here at 39% win/loss including commissions. Their win/loss is similar to mine, but they tend to ride a winner better than I can which makes a huge difference.

 

Lastly, you don't have to get your panties in a bunch if you aren't soliciting anything. You are fooling yourself if you think there are not people on TL who are soliciting.

[thalestrader 14]

someone suffered from your success.

 

They'd have suffered with or without me. I didn't beat them. They beat themselves.

[HAL9000 10]

You can add when you are properly capitalized to that list.

 

LOL

 

Respect is earned, not given!

 

Hal

 

P.S.: What do you know about me? :rofl:

 

 

BEDTIME!

[MightyMouse 12]

Richard Dennis once said that he could publish his trading system in the Wall Street Journal, and it would not attract enough adherents who applied it properly and consistently enought to change its effectivenes.

 

I think he is absolutely correct.

 

 

 

There is not a winner for every loser.

 

For every winner there are many losers! And there are more than enough losers (witness Mightymouse and his many daytrading friends) to fund the few who win consistently.

 

The only enemy you need to conquer is within your own soul.

 

I was helped by a few folks, and none of them have suffered for it.

 

I like to think that I have helped a few folks in turn as well. I have not suffered any ill as a consequence.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

Cute dig! I am assuming you are having fun.

[thalestrader 14]

Personally, I am currently down slightly for the year. I guess I am the loser here at 39% win/loss including commissions. Their win/loss is similar to mine, but they tend to ride a winner better than I can which makes a huge difference.

 

39% win loss can be a huge winner with proper position sizing and a favorable risk/reward profile (which, as you note, requires letting your winners run).

 

Yes, that makes a huge difference. It makes, in the end, all the difference.

 

It all goes back to the notion that we aren't beat by the market, we beat ourselves.

 

And yes, I know there are those soliciting here at TL. But I am not aware of such being the case among any of the very few who regularly post to this thread.

 

Lastly, most day traders whom I know who are survivors are profitable, and they are profitable day after day, with few losing days, rarely a down week, and hardly ever a negative month. It is August. Frankly, if I were down for the year at this point, I'd be out of a job.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[thalestrader 14]

Cute dig! I am assuming you are having fun.

 

I'm having a blast ... and you? Smile when you've had enough!

[AbeSmith 10]

Thales, the end of the day, traders are predators. The food that is on the table is not vegetarian. You make it sound like we are living in a fairy tale world where we can help eachother out, if only we can get in touch with our inner self. You don't seem to understand, or are suppressing the fact, that we are helping eachother in hurting eachother, starting with the weak. It is counterproductive to a trader's profession to share their trade secret with other traders. Unless the traders are part of a team that shares profit. In trading forums, people are not in a profit sharing team. They are, by the nature of the game, enemies. Though lots of them seem to share their knowledge, or some knowledge, because human nature is social.

[thalestrader 14]

Thales, the end of the day, traders are predators. The food that is on the table is not vegetarian. You make it sound like we are living in a fairy tale world where we can help eachother out, if only we can get in touch with our inner self. You don't seem to understand, or are suppressing the fact, that we are helping eachother in hurting eachother, starting with the weak.

 

I do think that the phrase "get in touch with our iner self" certainly misses the mark of what I mean when I say that what a trader needs to succeed is self-control.

 

You and I each have a different self-understanding and a different understanding of this activity called trading. You see trading as a war, I see it as a game.

 

You see other traders as enemies trying to pick your pocket while you are simulataneously trying to pick theirs.

 

I, on the other hand, see other traders as I see others gamblers betting on the exacta in the fifth at Aquaduct or Belmont - not as enemies, but as fellow contestants. We all contribute to the pot. Most will lose, and a few winners will split the pot. Those winners did nothing to victimize those losers. If I teach a few others to handicap the ponies as I do, have I harmed myself? No. Have those who would have bet and lost anyway be suufer any additional harm beyond what they's have lost whether I or my friends bet or not? No.

 

It is a game, not a war.

 

Play games, not war.

[HAL9000 10]

Thales, the end of the day, traders are predators. The food that is on the table is not vegetarian. You make it sound like we are living in a fairy tale world where we can help eachother out, if only we can get in touch with our inner self. You don't seem to understand, or are suppressing the fact, that we are helping eachother in hurting eachother, starting with the weak. It is counterproductive to a trader's profession to share their trade secret with other traders. Unless the traders are part of a team that shares profit. In trading forums, people are not in a profit sharing team. They are, by the nature of the game, enemies. Though lots of them seem to share their knowledge, or some knowledge, because human nature is social.

 

Abe,

 

this will be really my last post tonight,

but Thales is the wrong one to address, he has helped me, even if my P/L

doesn't show it yet. Well, I understand you, its not about helping, its about profit, and the more is lost, the more is won.

 

The banks/brokers will always win on commissions,

but also just as food for thought,

the market will move up and down, and even if it moves sideways,

its up and down, so its somehow 50/50 without commissions.

 

But to make a profit or loss it has to move!

 

Whenever it moves, there will be winners and losers.

 

And now everyone has the choice to be honest, or ...

 

But whatever this choice will be,

the markets will move once more.

 

So its not about this, its just about, when I wake up tomorrow,

I can still look into my mirror.

 

Social, yes.

 

If we would be all asocial, would it be worth to stay on this world.

 

I got help from people in my life, which owned much less then me.

So ... they earned my respect!

 

Regards,

 

Hal

 

P.S.: And now its really bedtime! At least for me!

[Soultrader 12]

Moderated Message:

Hello, Ive received some reports about this thread and glanced at a few posts to realize some members are having issues with the moderation.   In order for mods to be aware of the issue, members must use the report post button. This is because mods and myself can not possibly read through every single post on TL. (at least I used to when it was possible but unfortunately the site has gotten too big for this)   All reported posts are handled in the appropriate manner and has been working perfectly so far.   Brownsfan, do you not have moderating privileges on this forum? Thanks!

[thalestrader 14]

Moderated Message:

Hello, Ive received some reports about this thread and glanced at a few posts to realize some members are having issues with the moderation.   In order for mods to be aware of the issue, members must use the report post button. This is because mods and myself can not possibly read through every single post on TL. (at least I used to when it was possible but unfortunately the site has gotten too big for this)   All reported posts are handled in the appropriate manner and has been working perfectly so far.   Brownsfan, do you not have moderating privileges on this forum? Thanks!

 

James, do you not think a discussion can be over-moderated as well?

 

It seems as though I can't post here any longer without someone reporting me. I see that one of my posts was deleted. I stand by the sentiment expressed in that now deleted post, and I see no reason for that one to have been deleted, especially given the character of the post to which it was in response. I see another post of mine was reported but allowed to stand. I do not see why that post was reported.

 

Seems like an awful lot of thin skin around here amongst a group of folks who profess to participate in a game that is decidedly not for the thin skinned.

 

For the record, I have not reported one post here. I disagree with much that is said, and I either hold my tongue or I post a response (of course one cannot post a response in the Price/Volume thread unless it is one that agrees with the premise of that thread as laid out in the initial post, but that is another issue). If you are going to run a forum, then for crying out loud, censor the participants for sexist, racist, or vulgar language, but otherwise let us be free to disagree and defend ourselves, especially when defending TL in the process.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Edited August 16, 2009 by thalestrader

[diablo272 10]

I agree with Thales. I freely admit that I have reported many posts, but most of them are blatant advertising. The only one that I can remember that was not blatant advertising that I reported, well, while I still have the same opinion of the person whose post I reported, I think that it was a mistake to report that person's post, because I think I probably did it for the wrong reasons. But regarding this thread, the discussion recently here has been stimulating to say the least, and I can't think of a post that would have merited deletion on either "side" of the discussion.

[MightyMouse 12]

I do think that the phrase "get in touch with our iner self" certainly misses the mark of what I mean when I say that what a trader needs to succeed is self-control.

 

You and I each have a different self-understanding and a different understanding of this activity called trading. You see trading as a war, I see it as a game.

 

You see other traders as enemies trying to pick your pocket while you are simulataneously trying to pick theirs.

 

I, on the other hand, see other traders as I see others gamblers betting on the exacta in the fifth at Aquaduct or Belmont - not as enemies, but as fellow contestants. We all contribute to the pot. Most will lose, and a few winners will split the pot. Those winners did nothing to victimize those losers. If I teach a few others to handicap the ponies as I do, have I harmed myself? No. Have those who would have bet and lost anyway be suufer any additional harm beyond what they's have lost whether I or my friends bet or not? No.

 

It is a game, not a war.

 

Play games, not war.

 

War tactics do a apply to trading. I frequently refer to predation as a means of ambushing weak traders. I believe that it most closely resembles no limit poker. Horse racing is paramutual betting and it is againt a "house" similar to casino gambling.

 

Poker also has a similar social aspect too it; where you communicate, joke, etc, and are all oponents and ulimately win at the loss of others.

 

And, you can win or loss like a gentleman or like someone who thinks they are the best player and everyone else is only lucky.

[HAL9000 10]

Nothing new,

 

I am mostly sim trading, sorting out my thoughts now.

 

Anyway, here are my few real trades so far,

and I know, its not worth to talk about them,

but real.

 

If you don't believe me, its your problem, not mine.

 

 

LOL, and even if I like war games (like chess),

finally its more about statistics than war!

 

 

PEACE,

 

Hal

 

P.S.: Time will tell! :rofl:

[HAL9000 10]

BTW: Why poker? Blackjack seems much to be much closer to me, in comparison.

 

During trading, you see no faces, just numbers.

 

Playing blackjack, the noise (face(s)) isn't there,

but the signal stays.

 

Double (?),

 

Hal

Edited August 19, 2009 by HAL9000
;-) As always.

[MightyMouse 12]

BTW: Why poker? Blackjack seems much to be much closer to me, in comparison.

 

During trading, you see no faces, just numbers.

 

Playing blackjack, the noise (face(s)) isn't there,

but the signal stays.

 

Double (?),

 

Hal[/quote

 

I am referring to the mental aspect of poker and trading.

 

You need to be a poker player to understand the likeness.

 

To me blackjack is a slow losing grind. I guess trading can be like that for most.

[TAjammy 10]

some nice p/l here...........................

[HAL9000 10]

some nice p/l here...........................

 

You and all others reading ours,

 

are invited to post yours too (simulated or real, just mention it!).

 

Its free. :rofl:

 

 

Regards,

 

Hal

[bathrobe 10]

Hello everybody, it has been a while.

 

I have been using the fin-alg Market Delta chart with S/R and so far so good. I was busy while this formed but see these set-ups quite a lot, so unfortunately, did not take this trade.

 

The blue and green lines are S/R levels and this is a good example of using Delta/VSA.

 

For those lf you that do not know the bottom chart is a NYSE $TICK chart (up ticking stocks-down ticking stocks). Soultrader made a video on how to use market internals.

Edited August 26, 2009 by bathrobe
mistakes.........................