Trader P/L 2009

[thalestrader 14]

edit delete

 

Sorry Brownie

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[thalestrader 14]

.

 

Ok

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[edabreu 10]

Figures it would be 13 today, Friday, on QW day. Sometimes it almost seems mystical...:missy:

[subterfuge 10]

off work again today so traded.

Only 2 trades. Both winners. (had no losing trades since i started working a few weeks ago, lol)

[bathrobe 10]

Figures it would be 13 today, Friday, on QW day. Sometimes it almost seems mystical...:missy:

 

What is the BWTPrecisionMA? Also, do you enter and exit based on 15min.

 

Chris

[Dinerotrader 10]

Added a few contracts to my oil trades and went for smaller targets.

 

SIM

[brownsfan019 17]

Added a few contracts to my oil trades and went for smaller targets.

 

SIM

 

That's a slippery slope to go down Dinero. I'm going to ask a personal question and you don't have to answer, but in your live trading account, how much is it funded with?

 

Also, are you aware of the CL margins @ OEC?

 

$2700 for daytrading.

 

To compare, the RLM is $400.

 

Why do you think such a drastic difference?

 

If you are going to be trading multiple contracts on the CL in real-time, then do that on sim. If not THEN STOP IMMEDIATELY. You really skew the results by adding contracts. I know the $$$ looks nice, but if it's not what you will be doing in real-time then you are playing some big mental games with yourself. If not, then have at it!

[brownsfan019 17]

12-18-09: na

 

I hit the snooze button this morning thinking that it will be a slow Fri w/ no news.

 

WRONG.

 

:doh:

[edabreu 10]

What is the BWTPrecisionMA? Also, do you enter and exit based on 15min.

 

Chris

 

It is the same as a HMA - hull moving average except it colors the change in rising or lowering average.

This particular trade was based on the 15m price action at support and the entry on a 6range chart price pattern. It was a 1:1 r/r, and I actually got a little bit better than that.

[Dinerotrader 10]

That's a slippery slope to go down Dinero. I'm going to ask a personal question and you don't have to answer, but in your live trading account, how much is it funded with?

 

Also, are you aware of the CL margins @ OEC?

 

$2700 for daytrading.

 

To compare, the RLM is $400.

 

Why do you think such a drastic difference?

 

If you are going to be trading multiple contracts on the CL in real-time, then do that on sim. If not THEN STOP IMMEDIATELY. You really skew the results by adding contracts. I know the $$$ looks nice, but if it's not what you will be doing in real-time then you are playing some big mental games with yourself. If not, then have at it!

 

Good points BF. I was only trading 4 contracts which would only be $12,000 margin for CL but I understand what you mean.

 

I realized that the desire to make more than $500/day was influencing some of my trading decisions when I was just trading one contract and of course I can always just throw some more contracts in the mix and make that it much easier if I have a winning strategy. I know you have a goal to make $500 per contract traded but I think shooting for that was hurting my ability to just maximize my profitability on each trade based on PA. Adding contracts is easy and getting more capital for trading is generally pretty easy if you can show you are consistent at making money.

 

Anyway, I am still thinking through this. I appreciate your advice.

[bathrobe 10]

Good points BF. I was only trading 4 contracts which would only be $12,000 margin for CL but I understand what you mean.

 

I realized that the desire to make more than $500/day was influencing some of my trading decisions when I was just trading one contract and of course I can always just throw some more contracts in the mix and make that it much easier if I have a winning strategy. I know you have a goal to make $500 per contract traded but I think shooting for that was hurting my ability to just maximize my profitability on each trade based on PA. Adding contracts is easy and getting more capital for trading is generally pretty easy if you can show you are consistent at making money.

 

Anyway, I am still thinking through this. I appreciate your advice.

 

FWIW my original broker who was much more hands on and was also very conservative told me to trade one CL contract for every 11k in my account. This broker pretty much scared me from trading oil, making me believe you had to be a pro to do so.

 

If Karma exists I am taking his money now since it is zero sum.

[Dinerotrader 10]

FWIW my original broker who was much more hands on and was also very conservative told me to trade one CL contract for every 11k in my account. This broker pretty much scared me from trading oil, making me believe you had to be a pro to do so.

 

If Karma exists I am taking his money now since it is zero sum.

 

I have heard stuff like this before. What is the reason you would need 4 times the margin in your account to trade just 1 contract? I am missing something or maybe this is for people who trade with large potential drawdowns. Not sure.

[bathrobe 10]

If Karma exists I am taking his money now since it is zero sum.

 

I seem to have mixed this up...........I think

Edited December 19, 2009 by bathrobe
I am not really sure

[brownsfan019 17]

I have heard stuff like this before. What is the reason you would need 4 times the margin in your account to trade just 1 contract? I am missing something or maybe this is for people who trade with large potential drawdowns. Not sure.

 

The margins are higher on the CL and recommended to trade with even more than a cushion of the bare minimum b/c:

 

1) It's a full sized contract, this is NOT a mini.

2) You've seen this thing move dinero and it can move so quickly and swiftly that if you don't have a decent margin cushion you literally could go into a deficit (which all brokers want to avoid at all costs).

Regardless, if you don't treat sim like you will in real-time, then I think you are simply wasting your time. If you are 'only' trading 4 contracts on simulation and then trade 1 live, you will be tremendously disappointed in your live results b/c there's no way 1 contract can mimic the results of 4. You will sit there and wonder what happened or changed b/c on simulation you were making $XXXX and in real-time you are making $XXX.

 

If the plan is trade 4 when trading live, then trade 4 in sim. If you are planning to trade 1, then trade 1 on sim. I truly believe you are setting yourself up for major disappointments if you don't trade sim as you will be in real-time.

[Dinerotrader 10]

The margins are higher on the CL and recommended to trade with even more than a cushion of the bare minimum b/c:

 

1) It's a full sized contract, this is NOT a mini.

2) You've seen this thing move dinero and it can move so quickly and swiftly that if you don't have a decent margin cushion you literally could go into a deficit (which all brokers want to avoid at all costs).

Regardless, if you don't treat sim like you will in real-time, then I think you are simply wasting your time. If you are 'only' trading 4 contracts on simulation and then trade 1 live, you will be tremendously disappointed in your live results b/c there's no way 1 contract can mimic the results of 4. You will sit there and wonder what happened or changed b/c on simulation you were making $XXXX and in real-time you are making $XXX.

 

If the plan is trade 4 when trading live, then trade 4 in sim. If you are planning to trade 1, then trade 1 on sim. I truly believe you are setting yourself up for major disappointments if you don't trade sim as you will be in real-time.

 

I totally agree that SIM needs to be as close to possible as real. I haven't decided the size I will trade live so I need to work on that. I might just plan on trading 1 live and reduce my expectations for my daily income, and then increase size when I am consistently making that amount.

 

About the margin... say I trade 1 CL contract and allocate $6,000 to that account. That means I have to lose ~$3,000 before I have a problem with a deficit correct? If my stop loss is at most $60 away from my entries and I don't constantly lose, it is going to take a while for me to have any deficit problem correct?

 

The above example is very simple and I mention it because I am worried there is something I am just not understanding/missing about this since bathrobe's broker guy thinks you need 4 times the margin amount in your account to trade at all.

 

Also, is there something that is actually different between a mini and a full size contract besides the mini's having a typically smaller margin amount? I didn't think there was any difference.

[brownsfan019 17]

I totally agree that SIM needs to be as close to possible as real. I haven't decided the size I will trade live so I need to work on that. I might just plan on trading 1 live and reduce my expectations for my daily income, and then increase size when I am consistently making that amount.

 

Sounds like a good plan.

About the margin... say I trade 1 CL contract and allocate $6,000 to that account. That means I have to lose ~$3,000 before I have a problem with a deficit correct?

Yes.

 

If my stop loss is at most $60 away from my entries and I don't constantly lose, it is going to take a while for me to have any deficit problem correct?

Yes.

The above example is very simple and I mention it because I am worried there is something I am just not understanding/missing about this since bathrobe's broker guy thinks you need 4 times the margin amount in your account to trade at all.

 

It's a risk issue/control. You have to understand that most retail traders don't have a clue. They hear about trading futures on an infomercial or webinar or the neighbor's friend of a friend whose great uncle twice removed makes a killing trading them. How hard could it really be?

 

The fundamental use of margin is to protect the broker in situations of quick moving markets where their customer is wrong and also to protect people from themselves.

 

The CL can move and quick at times. Some traders get married to positions and trade w/o stops. Can you imagine being long the CL into inventory and watch it drop over 1.00 in 30 seconds without a stop? And then continue to watch it plummet as you wait for it to come back?

 

There's a whole other side to this risk/margin thing that you aren't seeing b/c it doesn't impact you at all. It appears your stops are reasonable and as you said, as long as those stops don't occur too many times, you should be ok trading the CL.

 

Also, is there something that is actually different between a mini and a full size contract besides the mini's having a typically smaller margin amount? I didn't think there was any difference.

 

There is if you hold the contract to expiration. As a daytrader (no positions by 230pm EST) it's a non-issue. From there the difference is that the CL moves in .01 increments @ $10/tick and the QM (the mini) moves in .025 increments @ $12.50.

 

But that part is nothing to be concerned about as long as you are just daytrading the CL.

Edited December 20, 2009 by brownsfan019

[Tonkadad 10]

QM (the mini) moves in .25 increments @ $12.50.

 

 

Correction,

 

Minimum Price Increment $0.025 (2.5¢) per barrel ($12.50 per contract).

[brownsfan019 17]

Correction,

 

Minimum Price Increment $0.025 (2.5¢) per barrel ($12.50 per contract).

 

Fixed the post, thanks.

[subterfuge 10]

Quick trade before work starts in a few hours.

19 pips winner on the Euro.

[DugDug 10]

Hi Dinerotrader,

" broker guy thinks you need 4 times the margin amount in your account to trade at all."

 

4 times is often promoted by brokers as from an equity point of view, the market crashes have been about 25% - hence you will loose your money before they do. (FX might offer 500 times leverage!)

 

regards margin trading and the amount required......put it this way - view it as a business risk.

 

If you really want to push it and maximise it then consider what would happen if you get margined out - you would have to close the positions, and depending on the broker and the instruments, sometimes its not the instrument that is causing the problem that gets traded out by the broker - not such a problem with one instrument trading.

You then have to add more cash - a hassle, and while you are waiting you maybe missing good opportunities. Will the broker want you back if you are constantly pushing the envelope? By always pushing it are you adding an extra stress that you dont need.

 

One other point is that its good you realise regards thinking of trying to make $500 a day is probably relative to BFs account size, you definitely should be basing it off your own size, otherwise why not try and make $5000 per day? We would all like to emulate some profitable traders, but you have to play your own game.

Good luck with next year.

[bathrobe 10]

Hello everyone,

 

I just wanted to inform everyone who posts and in this thread and those who do not but pm me, I will continue to post reasons behind certain trades, but I cannot give out my thought process behind my other setups and subsequent trades.

 

My reasoning is that I have simply put far too much blood, sweat and tears to give it away. I think I have been generous in the past when I gave out detailed thought process behind some trades and I still will, but those of you who pm'd me to give it all away I am sorry but I just cannot do it.

 

I am looking forward to 2010 I am going to lightly trade the 10 year for the rest of the year, I really do not feel comfortable trading oil, I am working on an audible alert system for watching markets I want to. However, I am best at trading the ES and will stick to that mostly, mainly because I do not want to use up capital on other markets that I could put toward the ES. I run a theoretical averaging system for my es trades and it would mess with any other trades I tried to get in with any sort of size.

 

Happy Holidays,

 

Chris

[TradeRunner 10]

You are right dinero - just b/c the end result looks good, it could be difficult to replicate depending on you and your risk tolerance. This is why I think it's hard to trade other's systems (assuming they make money) - what I consider a reasonable risk you might consider too risky.

 

Hi Brownsfan

 

Congratulations on your 2009 success.

 

Out of interest what was your max or average risk per trade?

 

Thanks

 

TradeRunner

[brownsfan019 17]

Hi Brownsfan

 

Congratulations on your 2009 success.

 

Out of interest what was your max or average risk per trade?

 

Thanks

 

TradeRunner

 

It varies based on the trade. My stops fluctuate based on the market at the time. If I can get an ideal entry, stops are small; if my entry has to wait for some confirmation then stops can get larger.

[edabreu 10]

Traded with a buddy today. Sometimes everything just works to first target, but getting a decent runner without risk (turning a winner into a loser) is tough on the CL.

[subterfuge 10]

quick one on the euro again before i leave for work. Probably last day at this job today, so will be able to concentrate on the market properly again for a little while until i decide what to do next, 'work wise'.

Edited December 23, 2009 by subterfuge