[es] This Guys Good!!

[Jugador 10]

Hey guys...first of all, I'm not just a braggart tooting my horn. I'm just starting out and opened an account just recently. My broker supports NinjaTrader and I've been trading simulation mode for the last couple of days.

 

Here's a few screenies of my account performance for yesterday and today. I knew you guys would understand my excitement, and not take it wrong. Hopefully, I can keep it up, then go live soon!

[7latawiec 10]

what is this that you are trying to advertise?

a chatroom? autotrader? oh well

[Jugador 10]

what is this that you are trying to advertise?

a chatroom? autotrader? oh well

 

Hi...sorry you took my post as some sort of spam. I'm just a new trader starting out and got all excited about my first two days trading simulation with Ninjatrader, and wanted to share what I did with the guys here.

 

Ninjatraders not a chatroom or trading robot or anything like that. It's just a trading platform many traders know about, and it's free for sim mode, so it's not like I'm tryng to sell anything. (They pay to advertise here, anyway)

[sevensa 10]

So, what happened after the first two days? Are you trading from your yacht now?

[diablo272 10]

Congratulations, but what is the value of this thread? I don't mean to offend you, but two days of profitability doesn't mean anything.

[Jugador 10]

So, what happened after the first two days? Are you trading from your yacht now?

 

No, but I just booked a ticket to the Bahamas so I can trade on the beach with my laptop. :rofl:

 

Monday thru today hasn't been quite as lucrative. lol But, we're hanging in there!:haha:

 

Congratulations, but what is the value of this thread?

 

Eventually, it will show traders how to make a complete ass of themselves! :haha:

Edited March 4, 2009 by Jugador

[bathrobe 10]

You can already see traders making an ass of themselves at elitetrader

[Jugador 10]

You can already see traders making an ass of themselves at elitetrader

Oh yeah, I'm sure I won't be the first or the last. Hopefully, I can keep my results in the black and back-up my thread title. If you talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk. :o

[BlowFish 10]

Actually I always though the whole point of that expression is that you have to walk the walk before you talk the talk. Seems you might have put the cart before the horse.

 

The figures don't look too bad having said that. I would say you are in a dangerous position right now. Firstly sim is pretty different to when money is at risk. The real big issue is that it seems like you are setting yourself up for is this:- If you win from the start when you get the inevitable drawdowns it is far far more difficult to deal with emotionally. This happened to me. I did extra ordinarily well when I first started trading I grew a small account to six figures over a few months in a statistically significant way (it wasn't luck). However some how I lost the thread and never have been able to capture the same mental state that I had in those early days.

 

One of the trading psychologists (maybe Elder haven't read him for years) asserts that early wins can be far more dangerous than early losses. I would have to agree.

[humdesggg 10]

blowfish ... the name rings a bell. sounds like a guy from elitetrader

[Jugador 10]

If you win from the start when you get the inevitable drawdowns it is far far more difficult to deal with emotionally.

 

Thanks...I won't take it to hard then, when I most likely slip back into the red.

[Sledge 13]

Jugador-

If I may ask a question or two. I say with all sincerity the questions I ask and the observations I make. I was once a very new trader, I have learned a lot from folks here and elsewhere who took the time to answer my questions and ground me from time to time (as if the market can't hand you your own ass- and no one on a message board is needed to "rub it in")

 

On this Demo account:

1. Are you starting the account with THE ACTUAL AMOUNT that you intend to go live with? Meaning- if you are planning to start with say $10,000 when you get the funds- is your demo starting out at $10,000?

 

The reason I ask is that if you plug in say "$100,000" and you get used to trading 2.00 lots or 3.00 lots, you will be highly disappointed when you start a real account with our example of $10,000 and your account cannot handle the margin of taking 2 and 3 or beyond lots to trade with.

 

2. Are you calculating this margin? Taking into account breathing room to let trades run etc.? And are you working within your 2% or 3% risk rule on your account? Meaning: If you are willing to risk $200 on a trade as it is 2% of a $10,000 account- how many ticks or pips are you able to handle before the $200 is hit? Obviously, if you trade smaller lot sizes- it allows you more "breathing room" if you are trading a 2.00 lot of forex- you are able to withstand a 10 pip move against you and the 2% is gone. If you move that to a .10 lot you have 200 pips that it could move against you before your stop was hit. Hopefully this makes sense.

 

3. Are you actively putting Stop Losses on EVERY Trade? Believe me when I demo traded- I never put stop losses on trades- until I had my ass handed to me over and over again when I was wrong. Finally, it sunk in- thank goodness they were Demo Dollars- I had some real bad losses- when I thought I was "untouchable."

 

4. Are you treating this as if it is REAL? Are you taking only trades you would take with REAL money? Are you just as pissed when you lose $50 Demo dollars as you are thrilled when you make $50 demo dollars? Treat this as if it is real and you will gain more benefit than anything else. Only take trades you would as real- only take trades that follow your set-up and edge (you do have your edge defined don't you?)

 

5. You MUST be patient, disciplined, and focused- 100% of the time when you trade. One of the BEST pieces of advice I have ever read is this: Great traders don't get over-excited about winning trades, and don't get depressed about losing trades- they know that the market is what it is, and that it does what it does.

 

I wish you well in your quest- but remember to be humble and continue to learn- if this advice is not heeded- the market will surely provide you with all the humbling you will ever need- when you least expect it!

Aaron

[Jugador 10]

Jugador-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wish you well in your quest- but remember to be humble and continue to learn- if this advice is not heeded- the market will surely provide you with all the humbling you will ever need- when you least expect it!

Aaron

 

Hi...I have $25,000 set aside to trade, so yes, I'm trading the sim account as if it has that same amount. Yes, I'm calculating the margin as I would actually be expected to put up. The plan is to get out of a trade when I'm down a 1/2 percent (10 ticks or $125 for the ES), and out for the day if I'm down 2% at any time during the day. ($500)

 

Yes, my trading platform (Ninja) automatically puts my 10 tick stop in as soon as I'm filled, and I don't cancel it.

 

Yes, I do get upset a bit when I do something stupid and lose a trade. But, I'm sure the emotions will be on a higher level when I go live.

 

I don't know if I have an edge or not. If I can double my sim account, then maybe I can say I have an edge. I'm trading the Turtle System on an intraday chart. It's supposed to be a pretty good method. You've probably heard about it, but if not, here's a link to the rules. Turtle Rules

 

Thanks for the great advice Aaron, it's guys like you that make sites like this so valuable for beginners!

[snowbird 10]

Turtle system works great when markets trend, abut can suffer long periods of draw downs when they don't.

 

Are you trading the exact turtle rules?

 

Have you looked at what draw down you might have to stomach during several days/weeks of sideways movement?

 

snowbird

[Jugador 10]

Turtle system works great when markets trend, abut can suffer long periods of draw downs when they don't.

 

Are you trading the exact turtle rules?

 

Have you looked at what draw down you might have to stomach during several days/weeks of sideways movement?

 

snowbird

 

Hi... It's a toughy to follow, that's for dang sure! :haha: I'm just starting out, so I'm not 100% positive I'm following the rules exactly. I'm still having a little trouble figuring the ATR out. :missy:

 

And, I've already broken the rules a few times! I thought I'd get cute and fade the signals one day, and got hammered for about $800! :haha:

 

It's a little too early for me to know if I can stomach the "chop". I'll stick with it for a few more weeks and see how it goes.

[Sledge 13]

Hi...I have $25,000 set aside to trade, so yes, I'm trading the sim account as if it has that same amount. Yes, I'm calculating the margin as I would actually be expected to put up. The plan is to get out of a trade when I'm down a 1/2 percent (10 ticks or $125 for the ES), and out for the day if I'm down 2% at any time during the day. ($500)

 

Yes, my trading platform (Ninja) automatically puts my 10 tick stop in as soon as I'm filled, and I don't cancel it.

 

Yes, I do get upset a bit when I do something stupid and lose a trade. But, I'm sure the emotions will be on a higher level when I go live.

 

I don't know if I have an edge or not. If I can double my sim account, then maybe I can say I have an edge. I'm trading the Turtle System on an intraday chart. It's supposed to be a pretty good method. You've probably heard about it, but if not, here's a link to the rules. Turtle Rules

 

Thanks for the great advice Aaron, it's guys like you that make sites like this so valuable for beginners!

 

Thank you.

I have to say then- kudos- you are doing this properly and that is very rare. I demo traded for 20 months before I spent a cent live on this- I did it the hard way, and it appears you are as well- but hone your craft, as you appear to be! I applaud you- seriously!

 

Your edge can be any number of things- I guess it is how you make money- maybe it is a set-up, or some type of "trigger" but it also is your rules. Defining rules that you set- for "no trigger- no trade" will work wonders for anyone trading. I have a set of rules that "if X happens, pending trade set at Y and "Z" must happen for me to stay in the trade" So step one is my identifying, Step two is the execution and Step 3 is the maint. of the trade.

 

Hopefully this helps. You sound like you really are in this for the long haul!

Aaron

[Sledge 13]

And, I've already broken the rules a few times! I thought I'd get cute and fade the signals one day, and got hammered for about $800! :haha:

 

 

Heh, I'm having a flashback.

 

Do you keep a trade journal? I can tell you this from my experience- if I trade my rules- I make profit

If I defy my rules- I lose money.

 

It was right there in black and white for me to see. This is where the discipline comes in that is absolutely necessary to succeed in this. Work to completely lose the "I gotta trade, I gotta trade" mentality over time. Look for "Grade A" set-ups.

 

As they say "You don't have to swing at every pitch"

[freeflyva 10]

If I were you I would open an account and trade 1 lot live. Once you realize how different live trading is.....it will give you a whole new perspective when you return to paper trading. Until then....you're setting yourself up for a beating where you're the pinata and the market is the bat. I imagine while on the simulator you're kicked back.....watching it move....nice and relaxed. You're probably eating a sandwich.....and crunching the numbers on your calculator to figure out how many trades til you can buy that Bugatti Veyron. Enter a newbie trading live....and it's sweaty palms....jumpy mouse finger....pounding heart....and eyes darting around like someone that dropped the soap in a prison shower. On the simulator it's easy to wait out a trade going against you but when it's happening live and your hard earned cash is going bye bye....it's a whole different story. The market lets everyone win at the beginning. It likes to let you win until you get overconfident and trade more contracts. Then it's time for the Kleenex and the antacids as you scream yourself to sleep in the fetal position. At that point you'll truly understand the meaning of regret. That is....once the imodium kicks in. It is then....that your journey will begin.

[Jugador 10]

If I were you I would open an account and trade 1 lot live. Once you realize how different live trading is.....it will give you a whole new perspective when you return to paper trading. Until then....you're setting yourself up for a beating where you're the pinata and the market is the bat. I imagine while on the simulator you're kicked back.....watching it move....nice and relaxed. You're probably eating a sandwich.....and crunching the numbers on your calculator to figure out how many trades til you can buy that Bugatti Veyron. Enter a newbie trading live....and it's sweaty palms....jumpy mouse finger....pounding heart....and eyes darting around like someone that dropped the soap in a prison shower. On the simulator it's easy to wait out a trade going against you but when it's happening live and your hard earned cash is going bye bye....it's a whole different story. The market lets everyone win at the beginning. It likes to let you win until you get overconfident and trade more contracts. Then it's time for the Kleenex and the antacids as you scream yourself to sleep in the fetal position. At that point you'll truly understand the meaning of regret. That is....once the imodium kicks in. It is then....that your journey will begin.

 

Good lord! :rofl: If it's gonna be that bad, I'll just buy a windshield repair kit and sit on the corner repairing dings for ten bucks a pop. :haha:

[BlowFish 10]

Your results don't look at all like those you would expect from the turtle trading rules? Actually they don't look like a typical trend following system at all. I have to say I am confused. Typically you would get about 30% maybe 35% winners with the odd 'home run' now and then. The key to the turtle system is not the trigger (which is a simple donchian break out from memory) but how you pyramid into running trades, that is what makes it work.

[Jugador 10]

Your results don't look at all like those you would expect from the turtle trading rules? Actually they don't look like a typical trend following system at all. I have to say I am confused.

 

Right...at first I was torn between following the rules or fading the rules. In other words, would I rather have a bunch of small winners and a big loser now and then, or a bunch of small losers and a big winner now and then?

 

At first, I thought I'd rather have the former, and the first couple of days it worked nicely. I got all excited and started this thread. :haha:

 

But, you'll notice I haven't posted any screenies lately. :embarassed:

[freeflyva 10]

Obviously....I'm exaggerating :helloooo:but there is a big difference in trading live and going in overconfident is a recipe for disaster. I do have a question though. If you divide your total losses by the number of trades, all three screens have different losses per trade. Are you getting out of trades before your stop is hit? If so....based on what?

[Jugador 10]

Obviously....I'm exaggerating :helloooo:but there is a big difference in trading live and going in overconfident is a recipe for disaster. I do have a question though. If you divide your total losses by the number of trades, all three screens have different losses per trade. Are you getting out of trades before your stop is hit? If so....based on what?

 

Thanks for the tip about trading live...I'm getting that impression from a lot of the guys here. So, I'll prepare myself for that.

 

As for your question, I think the reason the losses seem different is Ninja counts a scratch as a loss, and just averages in the commission with the other losses, so it comes out kinda screwy.

[gandalf33 10]

It's nice to see a parallel guy to me working it out on a demo account.

 

I personally have read zillions of trading books and advices, know pretty much everything mentioned here and in other threads already, have large files of my system exact descriptions of what & when & how, lot of excels with everything planned, a large excel of very detailed trading diary with an extra column for how I felt about the trade, turning $5000 into $10300 in 2 weeks of backtesting following the rules precisely.

 

I imagine it's real money when the next ticks of market unfolds, and after 13 losers, I felt like jumping out of the balcony. And this is backtesting! Should I have an ambulance nearby when going live?

 

The demo account is the 3rd big step in my trader development (I'm on step 1).

 

Jugador, I'd like to see some threads/posts in you from the future to know how it worked out for you in the next weeks of sim and of course, live. And do a comparison of sim to live - maybe you could post your first 3 days on live as well

 

Fingers crossed for you. Well, not crossed - that would mean luck and trading is not about luck. I wish you profit.

[Jugador 10]

It's nice to see a parallel guy to me working it out on a demo account. I personally have read zillions of trading books.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jugador, I'd like to see some threads/posts in you from the future to know how it worked out for you in the next weeks of sim and of course, live. And do a comparison of sim to live - maybe you could post your first 3 days on live as well

 

Fingers crossed for you. Well, not crossed - that would mean luck and trading is not about luck. I wish you profit.

 

You're way ahead of me, I've only read a billion! :haha: It's kind of meaningless to post "sim results", but sure, when I go live I'll make some post or start a thread. Thanks for the crossed fingers! :o