Pure VSA

[BlowFish 10]

You can get it from here http://www.geniechartist.com/home/vsa.php I hope the link is acceptable, people link books on amazon and what not

[humdesggg 10]

I have just started investigating VSA and have started with this thread (per a suggestion I saw on another thread). I have started out by downloading VSA Summary I and the Master the Markets. I have printed out Eiger's first few charts and his comments and I find these extremely helpfull.

 

However, I get lost on some of the "buzz words" that are used by Eiger/VSA. I see references to "hidden test", "hidden upthrust", etc. I have searched thru the PDF files that I downloaded and can find no reference there.

 

Is there a document here (or anywhere) that defines the jargon that VSA uses?

 

I think u made the right choice by starting with these thread, and u will find it exceptionally helpful in nailing down effort/result analysis embodied in VSA. When I came across VSA, I read TW's Undeclared Secrets 5 times. By the time I came here, I made a point of reading Eiger's posts, and without looking at his comments, I sat down to comment the setups he has identified on each chart. By making my own comments prior to reading his, I found that where I got variance in naming the setups, I could go back to the book and read up on stuff I had trouble deciphering. I dont see myself as an Expert, but I have pretty much a bigger understanding of the effort/resuls framework using this thread.

 

of course its a pity that myself, and other posters do not share our analysis that much. it always help to analyse some1 chart's and check the details. For me, I dont see divergence of analysis as me or the other party being wrong. It may show the depth of the hardwork and revision that one trader puts in versus the effort of other traders.

 

In terms of a wishlist for this thread, I basically wish a little mo profilic posting from all of us.

[DbPhoenix 42]

I remember years ago that some people said that Undeclared secrets was just shilling for the software I think now however its very hard to get hold of Undeclared secrets, I lost my copy somewhere and its not in print now..

 

Just google it. Complete title: The Undeclared Secrets That Drive the Stock Market

[Romulan 10]

I think u made the right choice by starting with these thread, and u will find it exceptionally helpful in nailing down effort/result analysis embodied in VSA. When I came across VSA, I read TW's Undeclared Secrets 5 times. By the time I came here, I made a point of reading Eiger's posts, and without looking at his comments, I sat down to comment the setups he has identified on each chart. By making my own comments prior to reading his, I found that where I got variance in naming the setups, I could go back to the book and read up on stuff I had trouble deciphering. I dont see myself as an Expert, but I have pretty much a bigger understanding of the effort/resuls framework using this thread.

 

of course its a pity that myself, and other posters do not share our analysis that much. it always help to analyse some1 chart's and check the details. For me, I dont see divergence of analysis as me or the other party being wrong. It may show the depth of the hardwork and revision that one trader puts in versus the effort of other traders.

 

In terms of a wishlist for this thread, I basically wish a little mo profilic posting from all of us.

 

Thanks for the hint of making comments before reading his - will try it. Good idea.

[kuky969 10]

Some similar trades from yesterday - I love this days and kind of trades

 

A- small 1 tick dip below yesterdays low (bears trapped) and quick rejection or escape of price from this area --"spring"

 

B-- strong bar

 

C- test or no supplly ??? - simply in market is not enough of supply--- long

 

and again

reaction from D on this strong up move is on decreasing volume

 

1-- spring

2- rejection - break of minor TL

3-test of supply

4- confirmed --long

 

And nice similar trade was on 3 min TF at 2.42 h. pm (chicago)-- green rectangle, but I didnt take it

 

http://www.sierrachart.com/userimages/upload_2/1245983203_19_UploadImage.png

 

http://www.sierrachart.com/userimages/upload_2/1245983282_52_UploadImage.png

[MANTRA 10]

one SIM trade (NQ)

 

market reached support from 15TF

 

bar1- 2nd bar reversal

bar2- spring

bar3- shake out = enter on high of this bar

 

how would you identify bar3?

 

for me there was lighter volume like on bar2 so less supply but higher volume like on two previous bars, so no ''test'' bar...anyway good setup from PA point of view...really nice 123 pattern

[kuky969 10]

Can we expect drop of market ????? ..daily chart

 

1 ...sellers,next 2 bars lower low ,lower high,lower close in increased volume

2 no demand

3 big sellers

4 big sellers (small spread and big volume as reaction on previously bar)

5 no demand

6 sellers -reverse

next bar - yesterday- no demand

 

so what happen today ??

[SRspider 10]

My Analysis for this morning on the a possible selling climax.

[Sledge 13]

Eiger:

One question I would like to see if you may clarify for me? On Buying or selling climaxes: Would these bars be considered "rare" and occour at MAJOR support or resistance? I'm looking at the material more in-depth and it appears that we may have bars that provide turns such as an upthrust, top/bottom reversal or hidden upthrust at more minor support and resistance. But a Selling or Buying Climax tend to seem to occour at Major S/R (i.e S/R you would see on a Weekly or Monthly chart)

 

Any clarification from your experiences would be appreciated.

Regards,

Aaron

[Eiger 10]

It has been a while – a nice, long long summer of good trading and other nice, relaxed fun….

 

A – Look at that volume – very heavy, but the close is off the lows.

 

B – Hidden Test on volume less than the previous two bars.

 

C – Up bar braking though resistance on wide spread and increased volume – no doubt – it’s bullish!

 

D – After holding gains nicely atop of old resistance now support, a 2-Bar Bottom Reversal at Demand Line rallies the market upward.

 

E&F – Although E moves up on heavy volume, F closes below the middle – possible selling and possible weakness. Next bar is up on light volume – possible No Demand and still uncertain.

 

G – Next bars are up on good spread and good volume. Demand is still in control.

 

H – After a sideways move, price returns to the Demand Line on a light volume down bar – No Supply. Next bar is up.

 

I – Test

 

J – wide spread up bar on good volume, closing on its highs – bullish.

 

K – Heavy volume, close in the middle, potential supply.

 

L – Hidden Test

 

M – Test and rally into the close.

 

Have to love VSA!

 

Hope this is helpful,

Eiger

[VolumeJedi 10]

Great post.

 

Very nice to see you back. We all missed your brilliant insights.

[humdesggg 10]

I have been out of action on VSA metholody and would like to pick up the pieces. here is my interpretation of the VSA setups on the Emini S&p. of course newer traders are advised to read the volume spread action on the 5minute against the background of the 15,60 charts, which gives more clues on resistance and support levels

 

1. We are in uptrend, marked by closes in the upper range. the prior bar has high volume, but the current bar has decreased volume and price close on the low. this is bearish and a setup for a short, subject to following bars closing below the low of this bar.

 

2. An up bar on reduced or average volume suggests no active buying interest, and a sign of no demand. the close below the low of this bar on the following bar is proof of further weakness.

 

3. Siminlarly, a no demand bar.

 

4. a Contraction of bars, seen in the spread narrowing, always foretells something coming. a close on the low shows further weakness.

 

5. Huge volume flowed in on previous bar. If there is active selling, we expect follow thru. However, this bar shows reduce volume and a close in the middle. Bears, altough showing desperation, lack power to pull down prices. A sign to get out of shorts.

 

6. After a contraction of bars for longer period, this bar fails to take out the low of the previous bar 2 bars ago. Volume interested also dries up. This is a test of the lows at no 5.

 

7. Great volume is needed to push above the highs at the left side. Cautious, conservative traders would wait for a test to get a safe entry, which comes 2 bars after this. Trendline traders would be happy to jump the soup train here, as clearly a downward trendline is broken.

 

8. The uptrend is in doubled, with a close on the low on volume higher than average.

 

9. a successful to see if there are sellers lurking somewhere. The bears fail to come and price can resume its upward trek.

 

10. Weakness comes in on up bars. this is a no demand bar.

 

11. a little contraction is always helpful to learn which way price is going. here a close on the low open floodgates to the south.

 

12. a Shakeout,a bullish sign of a trend reversal or uptrend resuming.

[humdesggg 10]

Eiger

 

thanks for keeping the home fires burning on our thread. Would u please help me a little. Which of the setups would u call high probability, low risk and which would you call low probability high risk setups. dont mind the terms, just help me which ones in your experience are better suited for conservative entries.

 

It has been a while – a nice, long long summer of good trading and other nice, relaxed fun….

 

A – Look at that volume – very heavy, but the close is off the lows.

 

B – Hidden Test on volume less than the previous two bars.

 

C – Up bar braking though resistance on wide spread and increased volume – no doubt – it’s bullish!

 

D – After holding gains nicely atop of old resistance now support, a 2-Bar Bottom Reversal at Demand Line rallies the market upward.

 

E&F – Although E moves up on heavy volume, F closes below the middle – possible selling and possible weakness. Next bar is up on light volume – possible No Demand and still uncertain.

 

G – Next bars are up on good spread and good volume. Demand is still in control.

 

H – After a sideways move, price returns to the Demand Line on a light volume down bar – No Supply. Next bar is up.

 

I – Test

 

J – wide spread up bar on good volume, closing on its highs – bullish.

 

K – Heavy volume, close in the middle, potential supply.

 

L – Hidden Test

 

M – Test and rally into the close.

 

Have to love VSA!

 

Hope this is helpful,

Eiger

[2trade 10]

10 is the 3rd no supply test from the move up from point 9 low its a down bar.

[Eiger 10]

Eiger

 

... Which of the setups would u call high probability, low risk ...

 

D and H or I are the best trades on this day. L or M are also reasonable odds trades. B is aggressive, but good odds.

[2trade 10]

I have been out of action on VSA metholody and would like to pick up the pieces. here is my interpretation of the VSA setups on the Emini S&p. of course newer traders are advised to read the volume spread action on the 5minute against the background of the 15,60 charts, which gives more clues on resistance and support levels

 

1. We are in uptrend, marked by closes in the upper range. the prior bar has high volume, but the current bar has decreased volume and price close on the low. this is bearish and a setup for a short, subject to following bars closing below the low of this bar.

 

2. An up bar on reduced or average volume suggests no active buying interest, and a sign of no demand. the close below the low of this bar on the following bar is proof of further weakness.

 

3. Siminlarly, a no demand bar.

 

4. a Contraction of bars, seen in the spread narrowing, always foretells something coming. a close on the low shows further weakness.

 

5. Huge volume flowed in on previous bar. If there is active selling, we expect follow thru. However, this bar shows reduce volume and a close in the middle. Bears, altough showing desperation, lack power to pull down prices. A sign to get out of shorts.

 

6. After a contraction of bars for longer period, this bar fails to take out the low of the previous bar 2 bars ago. Volume interested also dries up. This is a test of the lows at no 5.

 

7. Great volume is needed to push above the highs at the left side. Cautious, conservative traders would wait for a test to get a safe entry, which comes 2 bars after this. Trendline traders would be happy to jump the soup train here, as clearly a downward trendline is broken.

 

8. The uptrend is in doubled, with a close on the low on volume higher than average.

 

9. a successful to see if there are sellers lurking somewhere. The bears fail to come and price can resume its upward trek.

 

10. Weakness comes in on up bars. this is a no demand bar.

 

11. a little contraction is always helpful to learn which way price is going. here a close on the low open floodgates to the south.

 

12. a Shakeout,a bullish sign of a trend reversal or uptrend resuming.

 

 

 

Hello Humdesggg

 

Your bar marked number 1 on your ensign chart has the point of supply arriving with the close down on the lows the 2 previous upbars also show supply. Three bars past your marked on chart point 1 can be considered the best risk entry point the ND no demand as there has been more supply coming in after the high this is confirmed as a place to remain short on the following bar the mini UT or hidden upthrust as it probes above for buyers and closes on its lows. Using price breakdown trigger points is an approach that can get you in on the wrong conditions ie you may enter not knowing what the bar ends up being and with your short trade you dont want to be taking up bars on average relative range on increasing volume for your short(potential strength coming in) even though it activated your short trigger point by passing below your mentioned "below the closes". It would be a better oppertunity to enter short on a no demand or upthrust or at least something resembling these in appearance and volume that way there is a better chance of not getting caught on the wrong side during entry.

 

Hope this helps a little 2trade

[bbj_anchor 10]

I'm warning all to not give CC# to TradeGuider or VSA club as they will never stop charging you. And refunds dont come... lots of talk but then I dont know why that happens is retort. I had to get visa involved and 3 months charges still havent been returned. Just FYI

[chrisp 10]

First thanks very much to Eiger for his wonderful thread. Second, as a beginner I thought it might be useful to say a little about certain VSA notions. It's not always easy to follow these because, depending on context (& Eiger points this out constantly), you can have what seem to be contradictory propositions. Gavin Homes refers to this, with some amusement, in one of the TG videos, & asks Tom Williams how can it be that weakness appears on high volume up bars AND low volume up bars.

 

So here goes, old hands are welcome to correct me & I hope this will help others who are still not sure.

 

I'll talk here about volume on down bars and the VSA classic: “When strength appears it appears on down bars.” This is a very valuable insight because it is counter-intuitive & invites us to look carefully at price action. “A big angry red bar with volume shooting up & I should be thinking of longs?” Well yes, BUT not just yet. We must look at the before and the after. Although we may look at individual bars we want see the market, and more precisely, the supply/demand relation, as a whole. Personally, as I look at each bar I also try to see it flowing from the previous bar and into the next.

 

One of the VSA signs of strength is the Bottom Reversal: a 2 bar signal. Bar 1 is down, preferably making a lower low than the previous 4 bars, with increased volume and at least average range or spread. Bar 2 is an up bar, closing on its high & preferably with a higher high than bar 1. VSA explains this by saying that the down barn, bar 1 contained buying & so the up bar, bar 2, is an up bar closing on the high. This is the meaning of: “When strength appears it appears on down bars.” We can nuance this a little

 

First, let's note here that we only see 2 bars because of our choice of time frame. If this was, say, 30 minute bars, then on the 1 hour time frame we would see a single bar closing high. A 15 minute time fralm would show 4 bars, with the final bar closing on its high. But the song remains the same, and it is this: in this 1 hour of price action (our 2 half hour bars), there was 1. significant activity (the volume) & 2. buyers were buying at higher prices & sellers were refusing lower prices: the supply/demand dynamic is causing higher prices. Let's call this Buying Pressure.

 

Once we have identified Buying Pressure we can go a little further by asking what kind of pressure-keen new buyers or frightened shorts covering? To answer this we have to look at what came before the bar(s) in question.

 

Would we go long on the evidence of this Bottom Reversal? Well, the conservative answer is no, we look for confirmation of strength in the market: a test bar. This will be a down bar but this time we are looking for low volume on the down bar, with narrow spread, & a close off the lows. (A no supply bar would also do just as well but I won't talk about that specifically here.). We want this bar to appear in an area where there was higher volume, ideally in the area of the Bottom Reversal but that won't always happen. Lower volume in an area where before there was higher volume tells us that market participants have moved on, this area no longer attracts activity. The narrow spread confirms this: the market is struggling to go down. And finally the down bar fails to close on the low. The path of least resistance is up.

 

The two bars confirm each other. The Bottom Reversal high volume down bar, bar 1, is confirmed by the low volume down bar which follows, the test. The low volume test bar is significant because it was preceeded by the high volume down bar in the Bottom Reversal.

 

With this in mind we can see that if bar 1 in our Bottom Reversal, a down bar, had been followed by another down bar, especially with increasd volume & at least average spread, then we would conclude that buyers were refusing to buy at higher prices and sellers were willing to sell at lower prices: a weak market. In every case we are asking: what is the balance between demand & supply. “When strength appears it appears on down bars” can be seen as an invitation to do just that. Like all VSA principles it has to be applied in context.

[rigel 10]

Chrisp,

Well put and well thought out, however the scenario you outlined does not always pan out especially in a strong downtrend, Have a look at Bearbulls thread "Trading the Wyckoff Way"

 

Many a times the reversals just last for a few bars, then the prices head south on low vol, not because supply has been removed or market is probing into high vol area, but

THERE ARE NO BUYERS, ONLY SELLERS, HENCE LACK OF VOL.

 

Similar scenario on in a strong Uptrend, also explained in Bearbull's thread

 

HAPPY NEW YEAR

[chrisp 10]

Thanks for your post Rigel. I suddenly realised when I made my post that this was New Year's Eve & that if I was looking at ES charts this must be my new idea of having a good time. A little weird I thought, so I was glad to see someone else looking at the posts.

 

Anyway, yes, I agree price can go up or down on low volume, no problem there for me or VSA.

 

I think in the TG video I mentioned GH does answer the question about weakness on up bars, & how it can manifest in both low volume & high volume. I wanted to do the same kind of thing for down bars, pausing on the way to talk about context & what I think is the fundamental behind all the VSA principals: the supply/demand relation.

 

I'm just across the water from you in Toulouse

 

Season's Greetings

Chris

[rigel 10]

Hi chrisp,

It is during these holiday periods that my mind is somewhat free from my own trading, however it would be a mistake to assume that Institutions are absent, infact they are very much vigilant, waiting like leopards for the right opportunity to make a killing,

 

Have a look at the following link: REGISTRATION IS FREE

 

Brooks Price Action - Log in

 

They bored the whole world to death for hours letting the market drift sideways, all the while cunningly selling short, then it was the final push up to suck in the longs before taking it south IN THE FINAL 30MIN with huge vol.

Most traders would have been left dazzled like the deer in the headlights of a car:)))

 

So today the big boys celebrate expecting huge bonuses to splash out in the exotic tropical Islands.

 

HAPPY AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR TO YOU

Edited January 1, 2010 by rigel

[millerol 10]

Here is my first attempt at explaining VSA indications or setups, basically testing my skills, I know that some of you are experts and I can only dream of getting to the level you're all at, however, I managed to create my own VSA indicator using the ThinkorSwim platform which offers free realtime charts (ThinkorSwim is absolutely amazing). The study at the moment only has indications of strength...strong signs of strength are pointed out on the chart as arrows pointing up....potential strong bars are indicated in the volume and price spread. Notice that I have created a histogram of price spread, this in my opinion will help alot as it is visual where as in the tradeguider software they just give you details about the spread. Trading is a game in my opinion, the banks and insurance companies which I think are the largest players (Governments are up there too) try to set traps for you. I thank Tom Williams everyday, I feel like he is my Jesus (Come with me and I will make you a fisher of money). When you look at a price chart all you see is money, the up bar is money the down bar is money....I will leave it there for now but comments are welcome.....peace!!!

 

[millerol 10]

My first attempt at a VSA explanation. Be gently....Please! I feel like Tom Williams is my Jesus (Come with me and I will make you a fisher of Money)

 

[alcontado_80 10]

This thredis very good

 

thank you.

[kamase 10]

Here is a pic of my recent live trade with VSA method and Tick volume histogram

 

Accumulation below the MPM 92.20 till demand absorbed supply.