What Made You Profitable?

[AgeKay 10]

For me personally... listed below

 

1. Ditched the indicators

2. Put the effort in and learned how to read price action and momentum

3. Gave the market my full attention from open to close, what i mean by this is that i stopped messing around with music and websites when it got quiet. There's always money on the table to take.

4. I stopped basing stuff on volume. Someone that i used to trade with ages ago, who did really well out of trading, always used to say that it was a load of bollox's that price follows volume. For me it took a long time for me to realize this, and my trading changed dramatically when i just focused on how price was trading.

5. I started off really young, and i'm still young now in the grand scheme of things, but as grew up a little bit and matured more, that took me from a good trader to a great trader.

 

I really like your response. Could you please elaborate on no 4? Do you even ignore volume that is split up in trades at ask and trades at bid?

[ctrlbrk 10]

I am new to TL not not new to trading. As I get to know TL, I ran across this thread and am glad to see these responses.

 

It lets me know that I am in agreement with my thinking and direction. Not long ago, I stopped trying to find the holy grail and develop an automated strategy that did all the work for me. I had been caught up in that loop (black hole is more accurate probably) for a long, long time (over a year).

 

Now things are really starting to click and the few indicators I still use are just to help me visualize long-term trend. I prefer to not counter trend trade, I just have patience to sit back and wait for my desired action (say, a long failure) to occur, then I pounce.

 

I've also adjusted my risk/reward to make sure it is at least 1:1. It used to be 2:1. Duh, that isn't going to work. :doh: I am trying to raise my average to 1:2 by having a runner.

 

I started a blog (Big Mike's Trading Blog) to help hold myself accountable for my actions. I felt that I needed to document my findings, my trades, etc, so I could later look back and see if I was full of crap or if I made sense. I also am finding that people are helping me become a better trader by seeing how they view my posts and how they would do something differently, it has opened my eyes to new possibilities.

 

Anyway, thanks again TL!

 

Mike

[1pipatatime 10]

I agree with most of the replies but I differ as I trade with Indicators.

 

That being said the thing that I would add that made me profitable was trading with intent, and self assesment after every trading session.

 

cheers

 

1pipatatime

[ZOSO 10]

I stopped arguing with the trend.

.

 

Ditto.

 

Contratrend trading cost me a lot of time and money. My ego occasionally got gratified and there's a rush knowing I caught a top/bottom, but the risk outweighed the rewards.

[ctrlbrk 10]

I primarily trade the ES. I try to go with the trend as much as I can, and I am only looking for targets between 2-5 points. For a long time (when I was losing money), I couldn't find the trend. I just couldn't see the benefit of larger charts. After all, I only wanted 8 ticks why the emphasis on such a big chart with 20 point moves? But once I finally started to "see it", everything made sense.

 

I tend to use a 10946 volume chart with some bid/ask volume on it to visualize for me the buying/selling pressure for the entire day. I avoid trading the first 30 minutes and last 30 minutes of the day.

 

Once a trend is found, I trade in that direction only, letting the counter-trend trades go by. I generally use a smaller chart like a 4 range of a 4181 volume chart for my entry.

 

I know some here have said they are indicator-less. I confess I still use a few indicators, one of my favorites being Murrey Math Lines.

 

I am curious how this matches up to other successful traders that are also trading the ES. Everyone has their own method.

 

Mike

[thalestrader 14]

4. I stopped basing stuff on volume. Someone that i used to trade with ages ago, who did really well out of trading, always used to say that it was a load of bollox's that price follows volume. For me it took a long time for me to realize this, and my trading changed dramatically when i just focused on how price was trading.

 

So many fail at the trading game because they insist on taking the other side of this statement. I share your opinions about the lack of importance of volume.

 

The rest of your post was also very good, but this point in particular is so rarely stated as to deserve a repeating.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[brownsfan019 17]

So many fail at the trading game because they insist on taking the other side of this statement. I share your opinions about the lack of importance of volume.

 

The rest of your post was also very good, but this point in particular is so rarely stated as to deserve a repeating.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

I also do not monitor volume at all. No clue what it's doing intraday or bar to bar.

[thalestrader 14]

I also do not monitor volume at all. No clue what it's doing intraday or bar to bar.

 

Like you, Brownie, I do not use volume at all in my day trading, though I do watch the order sizes being bid and offered (which, strictly speaking is not the same as volume), and I do so only after I am in a trade.

 

There are times that volume will give important clues, e.g. if a security has a large down day (or week) on lower than average voume, and then that is followed by another down day (or week) on higher volume, but with significantly less downward movement, then that is a bullish indication.

 

That being said, I am of the opinion that more time has been wasted and more money lost by folks seeking to find the some key to trading success in volume and volume studies.

Edited June 6, 2009 by thalestrader

[edabreu 10]

My trading turned around when I stopped listening to everyone else. I stopped attending trade rooms. I stopped buying indicators. I stopped trying everyone else's methods. I stripped down my charts to a moving average, and 1 oscillator-filter. I concentrated on price patterns and the time and sales window. I drew trend lines. I watched the price bars. I came up with only 1 setup. I designed my trading plan around that 1 setup. I traded only that 1 setup and my trade plan. I accepted a 1:1. Then I started to add leverage, not more points per trade.

My trading improved dramatically when I became publically accountable via my blog. In my own trading I also accepted the fact that I am a scalper. I stopped trying to hit the moat on every trade. I went for the first target, and the runners became gravy. I used more leverage as my account grew, and still do not rely on more than the first target to make my daily goals.

My trading took a huge upward turn when I started to MOPM. I started helping other traders privately and publically. I do this because of the type of person I am. I no longer fight the fact that, for me. I need to be in a setting where I am publically accountable live and in real time. I use the pressure to focus and to prove to myself that the way I trade makes steady consistent money. If standing upside down in my birthday suit with the mouse between my butt cheeks would have worked, then I would still be doing that.

[AgeKay 10]

My trading took a huge upward turn when I started to MOPM.

What does MOPM stand for?

 

If standing upside down in my birthday suit with the mouse between my butt cheeks would have worked, then I would still be doing that.

 

Definitely gonna try that. Heard all the pros are doing it like this.

[DbPhoenix 42]

What does MOPM stand for?

 

I assume manage other people's money.

[86834 10]

I really like your response. Could you please elaborate on no 4? Do you even ignore volume that is split up in trades at ask and trades at bid?

 

Lots of people seem obsessed with volume thinking that price will follow it. So for example they would be looking for volume on a break out to confirm etc, and when the trade does won't work out, then they're left wondering why because it did it on volume. What you should be doing is watching how the price is trading, watching the speed of it, watching out for the current open interest, watching how many is trading into the bids and offers, keeping an eye on parked orders on the book, asking yourself which side is heavier, watching the flow of balance in it, watching out for large parked orders and watching if they lift or not when high ticked. These are just some of the things you need to be looking at constantly when trading day trading.

 

Volume is just the sum of a trade, nothing more.

[edabreu 10]

I assume manage other people's money.

 

Yes. It really forces me to focus on the probability rating of my setups. So its just a matter of trusting what I already know.

[SwingTradinJay 10]

Took the indicators off.

 

I discovered an easy way of determining a single pivot area for each day.

Nobody uses my system, because it's not based off of common criteria.

 

Money management is #1, system #2 and psychology is #3. Line em up and start knockin down profit everyday.

[thalestrader 14]

Lots of people seem obsessed with volume thinking that price will follow it ... What you should be doing is watching how the price is trading ...Volume is just the sum of a trade, nothing more.

 

Excellent post, and I share your opinion. Isn't it interesting that what traders want to know is "what is price likely to do next?" And yet the majority of traders allow their gaze to be diverted from the price pane to the indicator pane, which is alot like trying to drive forward while staring at the rear-view mirror.

 

Price is its own leading indicator.

 

Price leads price. Always. And without exception.

 

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[Rainmaker626 10]

i hired a mentor, and i got serious about my trading. i turned it into a business, not a hobby. that did it

 

 

 

How much did you pay for a mentor?

As of now, I dont know a thing about trading, but I dove straight into the market with less than 2k.

I would love to make trading a real business.

[MightyMouse 12]

How much did you pay for a mentor?

As of now, I dont know a thing about trading, but I dove straight into the market with less than 2k.

I would love to make trading a real business.

 

Don't hire a mentor.

 

Think about it. Why would a successful trader waste their time with a green pea trader for a limited amount of money if they could simply trade and make significantly more in the market?

 

You will find guy who needs you to solve his problems; not the other way around. Think of the incentive to make up trading results and experience, etc to get you to fork over cash. There is virtually no way for you to know for sure if his numbers are legitimate

 

Trading is a real business and there are traders who are really good at this business and they will take your money away from you very quickly. Your best bet is to sim trade and save your 2k until you at least can make money on a sim basis.

 

Mentoring and every other advisory service is also a business and they are there to get money from you. Like any other sales situation, they will say and do whatever is possible and, hopefully, legal to get you to part with your money. also, they probably sell advice because they aren't realy making enough from trading.

[jonbig04 10]

Agreed, hiring a mentor makes no sense. The only thing you can hope for is that someone will help you simpe out of the kindess of their heart. In my experience there are more people around that are willing to help than you would think. Then of course its your job to sift through any advice you get and try to determine what is good advice and what won't work for you.

[edabreu 10]

How much did you pay for a mentor?

As of now, I dont know a thing about trading, but I dove straight into the market with less than 2k.

I would love to make trading a real business.

 

I have read the replies and while I tend to agree that undergoing a mentoring program can be a waste of money, I have to state that for some people it may come down to getting some real hands on 1:1 help and that is what a mentor MAY be able to do for you.

Since you say you don't know a thing about trading and already want to consider a mentor and have less than 2k...well...my observation is that you are in too much of a rush, have not really read enough about the risks (2k is just not enough to even think about this as a start up capitol to fund your trading business) and have already made a slew of mistakes.

So, save your pennies and start at the beginning. You do not know a thing about trading because you have not put in your own efforts to find out. Otherwise I doubt you would be asking for a mentor or even considering one. A mentor at this point is not going to be able to help you. You need to make the effort yourself. YOU need to make it your business to start doing reasearch, reading, study, and lots of practice before you give up and ask for someone to mentor you. I doubt any self respecting mentor would even consider taking you under his wing if you had at least not spent a year or two trying and making efforts on your own. If he does, then he is just out to get your money and probably does not even care what happens to you anyways. You make yourself the easy mark by thinking of a mentor so soon.

There is so much free information out there, so many resources to acquire the fundamental knowledge you need, and so many free tools and free methods that spending money on this in the beginning should only be for the trade platform, data feed, and lots of reading material. Why not start with the very basics....as in what is technical anlysis. You may also want to start reading a bit about market auction theory, and about the tradeable instruments, types of equities, and lots of background history about notable traders of the past.

On the flip side - make sure that the person who you ask for help has a verifiable track record, has mentored others successfully, and check all references. Finally, if you are a blank canvas, those first imprints are going to be real important. So, do you want them to be your own or are you willing to let someone else paint your future for you?

[JEHs 10]

You have to be care full of the folks who want to help for free, too. There are many people who just like to spout hot air. Just because they chose to try to help you doesn't mean they are profitable. It is easy to talk knoledgably about this and make yourself appear as thought you are a real trader, and you may even be very knoledgable but still not profitable. A mentor may even be a very nice, well intentioned guy and still not actually help you.

 

One of the most important things that you have to realize, in my opinion, is that you are on your own. Nobody can make this work for you. You have to take the bull by the horns and go at it.

 

JH

[forrestang 10]

Actually there is a significant difference in those 2 statements. The second statement describes a fact, while the first statement assigns a meaning to it. And that meaning carries some implications. I know the person in question and I think it is great that he thinks in this way. Because even if you just say "oh yea price dropped", you should know what does it mean to you and what implications it carries in a provided context. And by saying what he is saying he bears this in mind. He is not only describing what's happening, he is interpreting it. Or at least that's how I see it.

 

OMG, this person will laugh when he reads this!!! But I was having a conversation w/him today about this subject. Its just a matter of 'happen-stance' that I ran into this thread just now. :rofl:

 

btw......The person in question will be a great trader eventually!

[ClearlyTechnical 10]

There are many reasons people might tutor, even if successful.

 

1. They may only be willing to tolerate so much risk before it affects their trading, and tutoring is a way to leverage additional income.

 

2. They may be trading as much as a market can bear and can make additional money with their knowledge by sharing. Example: try to pump 100 cars through the TF or markets with wider spreads.

 

3. It makes them accountable.

 

4. Teaching is one of the best way to clarify your own beliefs and thoughts.

 

5. Karma

 

6. The reward of seeing someone else "get it"

 

7. Growing your sphere of people for other ventures. One of the ways to build wealth is to help others get wealthy.

 

8. Some who can't do, can teach. Some who can do, can't teach. Don't judge the message by the messenger ;-)

 

In closing. Why would you mentor this poster about hiring a mentor?

 

Some people are successful because they are trading size that fits their tolerance. Tutoring is a way to make more money with their knowledge and to grow their sphere. That's the main reason in my opinion.

 

Oh, finally. Some teach because they have no clue and are in it to make a buck. ;-)

 

Don't hire a mentor.

 

Think about it. Why would a successful trader waste their time with a green pea trader for a limited amount of money if they could simply trade and make significantly more in the market?

 

You will find guy who needs you to solve his problems; not the other way around. Think of the incentive to make up trading results and experience, etc to get you to fork over cash. There is virtually no way for you to know for sure if his numbers are legitimate

 

Trading is a real business and there are traders who are really good at this business and they will take your money away from you very quickly. Your best bet is to sim trade and save your 2k until you at least can make money on a sim basis.

 

Mentoring and every other advisory service is also a business and they are there to get money from you. Like any other sales situation, they will say and do whatever is possible and, hopefully, legal to get you to part with your money. also, they probably sell advice because they aren't realy making enough from trading.

[OpenMind 10]

Is there anything you did to change your trading 360 degrees? I am sure most of us has started by losing money.

 

What is it that you did in order to change from a losing trader to a profitable one?

 

I would love to read your comments.

 

I changed myself.

 

As a result my trading changed.

[zdo 20]

OpenMind,

 

How would you respond to those who say just change your edge and don't try to change yourself?

 

How would you respond to those who say you can't change your self?

 

thx,

 

obx

[OpenMind 10]

How would you respond to those who say just change your edge and don't try to change yourself?

 

How would you respond to those who say you can't change your self?

 

What makes you think I'd want to respond?