What Made You Profitable?

[Grey1 10]

.....................

[Grey1 10]

I trade stocks, and I do pretty well at it. Apparently I am among the few lucky souls who manage to do so without even knowing what a V W A P is. And I'm not asking what it is, for I really do not care. And I'm not saying that for some folks, a V W A P, whatever it is, may in fact be useful. I am just saying that you are wildly overstating the importance of whatever it is you are talking about, and a bit less hyperbole would be appreciated.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

Institutions use VWAP as bench market to enter or exit . They have their own algo to execute @ VWAP how ever some large block traders ( non institution) use Brokers such as IB to execute their order.. It is important not to trade against block orders hence the importance of this vital bench marke..

 

How ever if you donot know and donot want to know and happy with what you doing and making loads of $$$$$ then Good on you,,

 

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/trading/orders/vwap.php

grey1

[forrestang 10]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone who has not attained the level of profitability they would like (i.e. still learning), actually observed a so-called profitable trader trade?

 

And by that I mean maybe having the opportunity to observe someone trade live for at least a month, making many trades over and over?

[enochbenjamin 10]

Profitability came once I understood that deliverable commodities have built in selling pressure. Now I only short.

[subterfuge 10]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone who has not attained the level of profitability they would like (i.e. still learning), actually observed a so-called profitable trader trade?

 

And by that I mean maybe having the opportunity to observe someone trade live for at least a month, making many trades over and over?

 

Yes, the poster above you, Grey1.

Even though he often seems to be in conflict with some other members whom I respect (thalestrader and brownsfan) the fact is that he trades very well. Consistently profitable, as seen with my own eyes.

 

Grey used to trade live in a chatrooom that he ran for free and called out live trades every trading day for a few months (as well as some free 'seminars' which i have on my PC somewhere).

 

However, I do believe that despite what Grey says, one can be consistently profitable with TA alone.

[Kiwi 16]

Yes,

 

Grey conflicts with Brownsfan, Thales and others not because he is a bad trader but because he is dogmatic in some of his opinions. Others have shown to their own satisfaction that Grey1 isn't right (for them).

 

It does seem that a lot of functioning traders are very dogmatic in some of their opinions.

 

Which shows how many ways one can be "flawed" and still be very good at one aspect of ones deliverables.

 

Funny old world.

[TEAMTRADER 10]

Following a rigid low risk strategy will help increase profitability.

 

Understanding your own system is a MUST.

Having an identifiable exit plan is a MUST.

Taking necessary losses is a MUST.

 

The only indicators I have found that help avoid unnecessary losses effectively are timeframe specific momentum indicators.

It is impossible to avoid all losses but for a day trader it should be possible to make a profit every day if they are dedicated and put in the high concentration of trading time necessary.

My trading system follows rigid rules using diagonal trap lines linked with specialist MT4 momentum indicators with the detection of major convergence points being of strategic importance on both swing and reversal trades.

In summary what will make everyone profitable will be to: -

 

1. Learn your trading system thoroughly. If it works, then don't fix it.

BUT, if you are always amending your system, then it then ask for help via a post before you start losing serious money.

2. Have a rigid exit strategy for both profits and losses.

3. Take the losses, as these are your taxes.

4. Learn about avoiding unnecessary losses.

 

TEAMTRADER

“Trade what you see and not what you hear or hope.”

[Tams 20]

Yes, the poster above you, Grey1.

Even though he often seems to be in conflict with some other members whom I respect (thalestrader and brownsfan) the fact is that he trades very well. Consistently profitable, as seen with my own eyes.

 

Grey used to trade live in a chatrooom that he ran for free and called out live trades every trading day for a few months (as well as some free 'seminars' which i have on my PC somewhere).

 

However, I do believe that despite what Grey says, one can be consistently profitable with TA alone.

 

 

TA is a derivative of price,

if you can reconstitute price from TA

you can trade TA profitably.

[BlowFish 10]

Yes,

 

Grey conflicts with Brownsfan, Thales and others not because he is a bad trader but because he is dogmatic in some of his opinions. Others have shown to their own satisfaction that Grey1 isn't right (for them).

 

It does seem that a lot of functioning traders are very dogmatic in some of their opinions.

 

Which shows how many ways one can be "flawed" and still be very good at one aspect of ones deliverables.

 

Funny old world.

 

Indeed it is. Comes from flawed logic, the old 'I have a black cat therefore all cats are black' syndrome. Or more common I don't have a black cat there for black cats don't exist. If I had a cat I would call it Schrödinger then it could be black and not black at the same time (as well as being both alive and dead) .

 

Of course high priests of various trading cults prefer dogma to cats though are humbled when they met (black) swans.

[FXGirl 10]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone who has not attained the level of profitability they would like (i.e. still learning), actually observed a so-called profitable trader trade?

 

And by that I mean maybe having the opportunity to observe someone trade live for at least a month, making many trades over and over?

 

I've observed a profitable trader trade live for a month (more actually) and it made me a profitable trader. There is nothing like watching a master trade to help you develop the perceptual lens to see what the market is doing. I'd kiss his toes any day of the week for the opportunity to learn that he gave me. I count myself truly blessed to have a mentor. I wish the same for anyone who is just starting out.

[forrestang 10]

I've observed a profitable trader trade live for a month (more actually) and it made me a profitable trader. There is nothing like watching a master trade to help you develop the perceptual lens to see what the market is doing. I'd kiss his toes any day of the week for the opportunity to learn that he gave me. I count myself truly blessed to have a mentor. I wish the same for anyone who is just starting out.

 

Thanks for your response, and yes you are truly blessed.

[DynamicFx 10]

I can only answer this via the question, 'when were you profitable'? And the unfortunate answer to that, was when I traded without a chart, and instead used macro-economic currency fundamentals to discern the trend bias, whilst trading without a stop.

 

I say unfortunate, as it never really ever made any sense to me. I hated it, and wanted to find some visual logic behind what was happening. Hence the move to TA, which years later hasn't really helped in any tangible way.

 

I often remind myself of those random number generated charts that appear at times, that show all the classical patterns and S/R, but ultimately are the result of randomness.

 

I think it's doable, but I'm unfortunately coming to the conclusion, that it's the macro-economic approach and deep pockets, that ultimately are your best bets.

 

I can at times see those certain patterns, yet I also see how the vendor behind the explanation, is working the explanation.

 

My tuppence ha'penny.

[Grey1 10]

Indeed it is. Comes from flawed logic, the old 'I have a black cat therefore all cats are black' syndrome. Or more common I don't have a black cat there for black cats don't exist. If I had a cat I would call it Schrödinger then it could be black and not black at the same time (as well as being both alive and dead) .

 

Of course high priests of various trading cults prefer dogma to cats though are humbled when they met (black) swans.

 

One object( particle) can be in two different places ( on moon and on earth ) at the exact same time ... sounds flawed logic but it is not,, it just looks and sounds flawed to ignorant

 

Millions of ways of pulling the trigger to buy or sell but only very few ways of having risk adjusted returns and most trader here do not understand or have the knowledge of risk based trading models.. This is why 90% of traders lose ,, this is why they deserve to lose ...

 

 

Grey1

[Zunaa 10]

One Millions of ways of pulling the trigger to buy or sell but only very few ways of having risk adjusted returns and most trader here do not understand or have the knowledge of risk based trading models.. This is why 90% of traders lose ,, this is why they deserve to lose ...

 

 

Grey1

 

 

By giving us some examples of these models, maybe we too can see the light, and shed our ignorance as you put.

[jonbig04 10]

One object( particle) can be in two different places ( on moon and on earth ) at the exact same time ... sounds flawed logic but it is not,, it just looks and sounds flawed to ignorant

 

Millions of ways of pulling the trigger to buy or sell but only very few ways of having risk adjusted returns and most trader here do not understand or have the knowledge of risk based trading models.. This is why 90% of traders lose ,, this is why they deserve to lose ...

 

 

Grey1

 

I don't even know what the heck you are talking about.

[BlowFish 10]

One object( particle) can be in two different places ( on moon and on earth ) at the exact same time ... sounds flawed logic but it is not,, it just looks and sounds flawed to ignorant

 

Millions of ways of pulling the trigger to buy or sell but only very few ways of having risk adjusted returns and most trader here do not understand or have the knowledge of risk based trading models.. This is why 90% of traders lose ,, this is why they deserve to lose ...

 

 

Grey1

 

You trade on the moon....ahh it all makes perfect sense now. You don't have a cat called Schrödinger do you?

[Tradester 10]

First time poster alert. :ciao:

 

For me it was to start taking profits. Reviewing my trades I had a repeating pattern of letting winners turn to losers instead of taking what the market was offering. Once I started to take a profit and look for the next opportunity instead of always trying to let profits run I began to consistently trade to a positive expectancy.

 

It's a little funny often times folks talk about taking profits too fast, my problem was I was practically never taking profits, I was always looking for the home run.

[DugDug 10]

Tradester - for day trading I have to agree. I come from the angle of longer term trend trading and am starting to do a lot more intraday trading. Its a different mindset and trying not to turn every trade into a massive winner is crucial for day trading.

You have to remeber that day trading is moving in fast forward and the aim is to make small profits from many opportunities.

There is nothing wrong (in fact it probably should be encouraged) when day trading - so long as the risk reward plan still stacks up. What will happen then is the longer term trades look after themselves, and ideally if the longer term triggers and you happen to have a short term trade that is already on then you can merge the two. However I find its imperative to keep the accounts/records for the two completely separate as they are separate strategies.

One way to think about it is to think about mini trends within the day.

Edited March 2, 2010 by DugDug

[Tradester 10]

Tradester - for day trading I have to agree. I come from the angle of longer term trend trading and am starting to do a lot more intraday trading. Its a different mindset and trying not to turn every trade into a massive winner is crucial for day trading.

You have to remeber that day trading is moving in fast forward and the aim is to make small profits from many opportunities.

There is nothing wrong (in fact it probably should be encouraged) when day trading - so long as the risk reward plan still stacks up. What will happen then is the longer term trades look after themselves, and ideally if the longer term triggers and you happen to have a short term trade that is already on then you can merge the two. However I find its imperative to keep the accounts/records for the two completely separate as they are separate strategies.

One way to think about it is to think about mini trends within the day.

 

Oh yes certainly it's a day-trading mentality. Which is my style. I trade currencies and index futures primarily at this time.

 

I mentored with a very successful trader who takes every day trade with a day and swing portion, if it works out he scales out of the day portion and lets the swing portion run. The swing aspect of it did not fit my personality and I think in general it sort of messed me up with regard to taking day trading profits properly. I had to develop my own style and it took me longer than it should have :crap:

[EminiTradingCoach 10]

Two things changed my life:

 

1. I designed proven setups and built a trading plan

2. I took all my indicators off

 

I totally agree. The first step to profitability is to design a high probability trading system that fits who you are. Too many traders buy systems meant or designed for someone. thus, they are scared to take all of the trades and lose money. It's not just enough to know any proven setup, it has to be a setup that you're comfortable with.

 

Secondly, cleaning my charts and designing simple if, then scenarios for my trades made life so much easier. I dont fall into analysis paralysis. I recognize that price is our first and actual indicator.

 

If I was to add a third, it would piggy back off the first step. Understand Position Sizing and Trade Management. Being able to manage a trade is half the battle to being profitable at the end of the day.

[EminiTradingCoach 10]

I stopped arguing with the trend.

 

 

 

.

 

I agree totally. If nothing else, at least know if you are trading with or against the trend. Marcel Link in High Probability Trading talked about most high probability trading setups are in the direction of the trend.

[Cosa Nostra 10]

Your skills of trader made you profitable (psychology, knowledges and etc)

[xkr1962 10]

It has been said before by many in this thread.

 

Lose indicators and learn what the candles / bars tell you

 

Find or devise a method that works for you. (mine is trend analysis on EVERY timeframe with SR)

 

Once you have a bullet proof strategy fear and greed become less of a problem.

 

Don't overtrade (I study charts for 20 - 40 minutes pre FO LO (5-6am gmt) place the trades and go back to bed) two or three 20 - 40 pip trades a day for 20 minutes work suits me well.

 

Rinse and repeat the next day.

 

Remember, valid trends can be found on EVERY tf from the m1 to the yearly and beyond.

[targus 10]

The only thing I have so far found are harmonic patterns, the 4hr bearish eur/usd pattern appeared yesterday and I have been short with it since then.

[joshdance 10]

Don't overtrade (I study charts for 20 - 40 minutes pre FO LO (5-6am gmt) place the trades and go back to bed) two or three 20 - 40 pip trades a day for 20 minutes work suits me well.

 

This is good advice, about not overtrading. However, many day traders cannot plan their trades in advance with that small of a range, particularly on volatile markets. We must trade what we see NOW. Others are able to do this, depending on their strategy and market and time frame.