Trading The Wyckoff Way

[Patuca 13]

Ask anyone to trade wyckoff live on this forum even if done so in a live simulator. Sure there will be some slippage..etc but with wyckoff trading a tick or two on entry or exit shouldn't matter too much.

 

I don't imagine you will get any takers...

 

But....if you do...you may learn something about whether or not wyckoff works in the real world. If a trader cannot make it work on a sim (which is about as close to real training as you are gonna get) it certainly won't work with a real money account.

 

Of course, not all wyckoff traders can make it work well but if none can then you may have a rational answer.

 

Maybe the wyckoff gurus...promoters...believers...will trade live on a sim...i doubt it...:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[miketoll 10]

Theory sounds so uberlogic, yet it's unprovable. No matter if you watch them live trading once or for a year. Doesn't tell you anything about the real results if you know abou. Especially in a case like a Wyckoff approach, that's so diffuse that you can't even name fixed rules (even discretion can be framed, if you have the ability to structure and abstract.

[Patuca 13]

Theory sounds so uberlogic, yet it's unprovable. No matter if you watch them live trading once or for a year. Doesn't tell you anything about the real results if you know abou. Especially in a case like a Wyckoff approach, that's so diffuse that you can't even name fixed rules (even discretion can be framed, if you have the ability to structure and abstract.

Well what is your measure of "superior" as stated in your first post? Do you want to know if wyckoff has a:

 

1) higher win rate?

2) better R:R

3) feasible ..superior way..to make money with?

4) can be driven by rules?

 

 

Bottom line just what do you wish to learn about wyckoff and how will you know when you can say "i know wyckoff is superior because......."

 

Why were you asking for peoples experiences trading it live when you don't think watching someone trading it live is useful?

[sharehunter 10]

I am not sure what you're talking about. Here we do our own analysis. When someone gives you a report it's current but what difference does it make for someone who's learning? A few years or a hundred years old report is all the same. The idea is to get the proper way of thinking in order.

 

There are tonnes of charts with explanations if you use the search function. Whatever tickles your fancy type it in and start reading. Eventually, you'll have to do the analysis on your own. If you post something you've analyzed perhaps someone would comment on it.

 

The Wyckoff material and course used here is the original course which is devoid of the exotic terms later added by the SMI. It is not to say SMI's interpretation of Wyckoff may not be profitable, but in this forum we're not interested in the interpretations of Wyckoff but stick with the original.

 

I wish you well.

 

Gringo

 

Dear Gringo,

 

Yes, i am looking for the study case, report, analysis which using wyckoff method. It is bettet is current analysis because we dont know the future. I see the analysis and follow to see what is happen in future.

But currently, it doesn't have this type of analysis. I am also happy if I can find some document, study case, analysis or report in the past. Cuold you share me somewhere i can find it

 

Thanks you a lot

[Gringo 10]

I suggest you use this analysis from 1930 done by Wyckoff and cover the right side of the chart. Move bar by bar and read the analysis. This will be more helpful to you in my opinion. Once you understand it then try to see how someone else is analyzing the market. Keep in mind when someone else does the analysis in real time the unfolding on it may take many days. The point is not to predict what's going to happen but rather to decipher where the balance of supply and demand resides.

 

I hope my response answers your question. I may have misinterpreted what you had wanted.

 

Gringo

Edited August 19, 2015 by DbPhoenix

[sharehunter 10]

I suggest you use this analysis from 1930 done by Wyckoff and cover the right side of the chart. Move bar by bar and read the analysis. This will be more helpful to you in my opinion. Once you understand it then try to see how someone else is analyzing the market. Keep in mind when someone else does the analysis in real time the unfolding on it may take many days. The point is not to predict what's going to happen but rather to decipher where the balance of supply and demand resides.

 

Use this link if you already haven't gone through this study: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/wyckoff-forum/3876-basics.html

 

I hope my response answers your question. I may have misinterpreted what you had wanted.

 

Gringo

 

Dear Gringo,

 

Thanks you for your suggestion. I read your recomended document and also the course from SMI.

 

I mean that, to understand thorounghly, i need to read more and more example, study case or report so I am looking for type of these document

[goodoboy 10]

Just wanted to stop here and say Thank you. Thank you for helping me about 1.5 years ago when these forums was really active at TL. I learned so much about simplicity, trading journal.

 

I took some time off ES to focus on another job. But back for and still keeping up with my journal and developing my own trading plan. Still trading paper. That's right. Two years and still trading paper. I'm still learning and having fun.

[supermht 10]

Wyckoff threads become quiet, everybody in the thread have gave up wyckoff method?

 

I want to know why

[SIUYA 11]

they got wyc koffed off and moved to other forums.

[supermht 10]

upset

 

Wyckoff threads are helpful to understand market behavior....

 

:crap:

[Patuca 13]

Wyckoff threads become quiet, everybody in the thread have gave up wyckoff method?

 

I want to know why

Haven't you heard? Nothing works anymore because of puters and hfts...algos...:helloooo: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[supermht 10]

right, those HFT is bad for day traders....

 

but i think for swing or long term trading, Wyckoff method still applies....

[Subs 10]

I have been reading on VSA and Wyckoff for a little while but I usually have problems differentiating between Accumulation and Redistribution (Distribution and Reaccumulation also). On the hourly timeframe you get the typical selling climax and trading range but when you think its ready to shoot up into a markup it just keeps on going down breaking the selling climax low. The problem is I'm not sure whether the top of the trading range is acting as an automatic rally in the accumulation phase or no participation on the upside allowing the markdown to continue down (Redistribution).

Waiting for the break of the trading range will answer this question but you could find yourself at the end of the trading day letting the market pass you by.

Any tips?

[tradingwizzard 10]

Hi there,

 

yes...like any volume analysis, you are considering only the one offered by your broker...not the whole market.....that is the problem with all the volume based analysis.

 

TW

[UrmaBlume 10]

Hi there,

 

yes...like any volume analysis, you are considering only the one offered by your broker...not the whole market.....that is the problem with all the volume based analysis.

 

TW

 

That's only in the Fx markets.

 

Wiz,

 

I never understood, when there are so many other choices, why one would trade a market were you never have the slightest idea of volume, order flow, size transactions or the participation of size/commercial traders. Could you please tell us?

 

I have always considered Fx a sucker's market and the only reason people traded it was because they first didn't know any better and second because they didn't have the resources either fiscal or intellectual to trade anything else.

 

Wiz - I respect your posts, your position on this forum and your license with the Merchant Marine - Please show me the errors in my thinking.

 

UB

[tradingwizzard 10]

That's only in the Fx markets.

 

Wiz,

 

I never understood, when there are so many other choices, why one would trade a market were you never have the slightest idea of volume, order flow, size transactions or the participation of size/commercial traders. Could you please tell us?

 

I have always considered Fx a sucker's market and the only reason people traded it was because they first didn't know any better and second because they didn't have the resources either fiscal or intellectual to trade anything else.

 

Wiz - I respect your posts, your position on this forum and your license with the Merchant Marine - Please show me the errors in my thinking.

 

UB

 

Hi there,

 

I really don't know where to begin with....

 

I trade currencies more than 8 years now...this is what I do, day in day out....no stocks, no nothing....

 

Advantages?...come on, don't make me pick the obvious 24/7 trading, etc.....

 

Maybe it's only me, I'm an economist, MBA graduate in International Business, American University, and that being said I like to compare economies around the globe. Well, if you do that, you might as well look at their currencies. Well again, if you do that as well, you might as well trade those currencies.

 

Combine the above with technical analysis.

 

And consider the satisfaction of beating the market year in, year out.

 

And then you would not want to trade anything else than forex, as those markets look like peanuts on the global arena/macro-economic thinking/technical-fundamental reasoning, etc.

 

From my point of view, everyone else is either incapable of grasping the reality above, or lacking the intellectual capacity to do that.

 

So the easiest way is to trade volumes........what a crap........sorry for that, I will ban myself :crap:

 

TW

[Subs 10]

I use demos by ECN brokers (Forex) which give a better view of the market than say a market making broker. Volumes seem to be quite accurate. My question is related to distinguishing between Accumulation and Redistribution especially when the market is already falling and you cant be sure whether the wide spread and consolidation is strength or weakness. I am looking at viewing higher timeframes like H4 to help with this but would love other tips. I was also looking comparing the range of other high volume bars.

[DbPhoenix 42]

I have been reading on VSA and Wyckoff for a little while but I usually have problems differentiating between Accumulation and Redistribution (Distribution and Reaccumulation also). On the hourly timeframe you get the typical selling climax and trading range but when you think its ready to shoot up into a markup it just keeps on going down breaking the selling climax low. The problem is I'm not sure whether the top of the trading range is acting as an automatic rally in the accumulation phase or no participation on the upside allowing the markdown to continue down (Redistribution).

 

Waiting for the break of the trading range will answer this question but you could find yourself at the end of the trading day letting the market pass you by.

 

Any tips?

 

Well, first, VSA and Wyckoff have little to do with each other.

 

Second, accumulation takes time. Weeks, if not months. An hourly chart isn't going to be of much use.

 

Third, if you're talking about futures, there is no accumulation directly. You'd have to review all the most-heavily-weighted stocks, and the accumulation ship sailed long ago.

 

You may want to post this to the VSA Forum.

[tradingwizzard 10]

I use demos by ECN brokers (Forex) which give a better view of the market than say a market making broker. Volumes seem to be quite accurate. My question is related to distinguishing between Accumulation and Redistribution especially when the market is already falling and you cant be sure whether the wide spread and consolidation is strength or weakness. I am looking at viewing higher timeframes like H4 to help with this but would love other tips. I was also looking comparing the range of other high volume bars.

 

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

 

gees....

 

TW

[MightyMouse 12]

Hi there,

 

I really don't know where to begin with....

 

I trade currencies more than 8 years now...this is what I do, day in day out....no stocks, no nothing....

 

Advantages?...come on, don't make me pick the obvious 24/7 trading, etc.....

 

Maybe it's only me, I'm an economist, MBA graduate in International Business, American University, and that being said I like to compare economies around the globe. Well, if you do that, you might as well look at their currencies. Well again, if you do that as well, you might as well trade those currencies.

 

Combine the above with technical analysis.

 

And consider the satisfaction of beating the market year in, year out.

 

And then you would not want to trade anything else than forex, as those markets look like peanuts on the global arena/macro-economic thinking/technical-fundamental reasoning, etc.

 

From my point of view, everyone else is either incapable of grasping the reality above, or lacking the intellectual capacity to do that.

 

So the easiest way is to trade volumes........what a crap........sorry for that, I will ban myself :crap:

 

TW

Reality, on a macro economic scale, takes time to develop. A market can remain "irrational" longer than one can remain solvent.

 

The information you are gathering to win year in and year out may have been voiced to you from Lady Luck rather than your volitional consciousness.

 

I would take the money and run, but don't ban yourself from TL. You are fun to have around.

[UrmaBlume 10]

Hi there, I really don't know where to begin with....I trade currencies more than 8 years now...this is what I do, day in day out....no stocks, no nothing....Advantages?...come on, don't make me pick the obvious 24/7 trading, etc.....Maybe it's only me, I'm an economist, MBA graduate in International Business, American University, and that being said I like to compare economies around the globe. Well, if you do that, you might as well look at their currencies. Well again, if you do that as well, you might as well trade those currencies. Combine the above with technical analysis. And consider the satisfaction of beating the market year in, year out. And then you would not want to trade anything else than forex, as those markets look like peanuts on the global arena/macro-economic thinking/technical-fundamental reasoning, etc.

From my point of view, everyone else is either incapable of grasping the reality above, or lacking the intellectual capacity to do that.

So the easiest way is to trade volumes........what a crap........sorry for that, I will ban myself :crap:TW

 

All due respect to your background in Macroeconomic stats etc, short term trading is about short term technicals and in Fx trading all of your technicals are price based with no consideration of volume, depth or order/money flow.

 

In more fully disclosed markets, the trader who only uses price based inputs is at a disadvantage to those able to read volume velocity, balance and transaction size as well as market depth.

 

As to your condescension based post, Trading Wizard, as an online poker player I find that those with such screen names as PokerStud, really aren't. Kind of like your 100 ton toy boat license.

 

 

UB

[tradingwizzard 10]

All due respect to your background in Macroeconomic stats etc, short term trading is about short term technicals and in Fx trading all of your technicals are price based with no consideration of volume, depth or order/money flow.

 

In more fully disclosed markets, the trader who only uses price based inputs is at a disadvantage to those able to read volume velocity, balance and transaction size as well as market depth.

 

As to your condescension based post, Trading Wizard, as an online poker player I find that those with such screen names as PokerStud, really aren't. Kind of like your 100 ton toy boat license.

 

 

UB

 

thank you, you're too kind.

 

TW

[tradingwizzard 10]

All due respect to your background in Macroeconomic stats etc, short term trading is about short term technicals and in Fx trading all of your technicals are price based with no consideration of volume, depth or order/money flow.

 

In more fully disclosed markets, the trader who only uses price based inputs is at a disadvantage to those able to read volume velocity, balance and transaction size as well as market depth.

 

As to your condescension based post, Trading Wizard, as an online poker player I find that those with such screen names as PokerStud, really aren't. Kind of like your 100 ton toy boat license.

 

 

UB

 

thank you, you're too kind.

 

TW

[fxpaulm 10]

I’m not sure how much of an advantage a trader gains by reading volume velocity, balance and transaction size, and market depth, but I would think that after reading all the threads on the Wyckoff Forum one can see that trading pure price can be extremely successful.

 

One can still determine from price where S/R levels are and how price acts as it approaches them. Let’s not forget that time and speed can also be used to judge what price is doing. A trader can be very successful with just using price, S/D lines, TL, time and speed, regardless of the market being traded.

 

Perhaps someone could start another thread like the trading in foresight one to show that it can still be done. While I enjoyed reading it, the majority of it was completed years before I stumbled onto the forum. It would be nice to see the thread active again and sharing ideas and honing the Wyckoff concepts when it comes to charts.

[DbPhoenix 42]

Wyckoff threads become quiet, everybody in the thread have gave up wyckoff method?

 

I want to know why

 

There's a long answer to that and a short one, but even the short one is longer than one might expect.

 

There is a line beyond which "if at first you don't succeed, try, try again" becomes "enough is enough". After five years of trying to persuade people to read W's course, much less study it, and arguing with the VSA people who think they're "trading Wyckoff" when VSA and Wyckoff have virtually nothing to do with each other, and arguing with those who think they're "trading Wyckoff" when they are actually trading Evans' adaptation of it (which is just about everybody), I decided to take another direction and develop the SLA.

 

Is the SLA an interpretation and modification and adaptation of Wyckoff? Yes. What distinguishes it from all the other interpretations and modifications and adaptations is that the SLA is actually founded in Wyckoff's original course, not in what somebody read that somebody wrote who heard something somewhere. In that regard, it is to the best of my knowledge unique.

 

Hint: if whatever you're reading refers to "ice" or "creeks" or "springs" or "'laws' of cause and effect or effort and result" and/or includes indicators of one sort or another, then it is not Wyckoff's original course.

 

Granted Wyckoff's course can be a rough road, particularly for the video generation who are much more attuned to visuals than the printed word. Add to that the fact that it was written almost a hundred years ago and the stylistic differences can be challenging, though it's a hell of a lot easier than Dickens. I attempted to ameliorate these difficulties by suggesting Wyckoff Lite, but even this proved to be too much for most. Which brings us back to the SLA. And though the SLA may seem to some of those who've actually studied W's original course as a sort of Paint-By-Number approach to Wyckoff, most of those who read, study, and try to implement it (even 20 pages is too much for a great many people) are at least beginning to understand what trading price means and is and can do.

 

Therefore, Wyckoff will now be addressed and explained within the context of the SLA. The objective is of course to launch traders on the road to making money, not to torture them with material which -- if they are under 40 -- may seem archaic. Interested traders have been playing with the SLA for a little over two years now, and far more of them now not only understand what trading price is all about, they are also beginning to make money with it.