Trading The Wyckoff Way

[DbPhoenix 42]

Well DB, their loss if they can't be bothered to look up a symbol and pull out a 10 day 20 minute chart and see a perfect springboard.

 

I'll be curious to see how many do?

 

If I post in hindsight, how would anybody know it's real?

 

Frankly, if an experienced trader is demonstrating in real time a trade based on Wyckoff and they can't be bothered....

 

Besides, I really haven't figured out how to save from TOS the charts.

And IBs are crappy.

 

And I knew, I'd take the trade only if it acted right after 6:00.

 

Anyways....it's at 1430.75 and this will take some time

 

stop is the same at 1428.5(for the time being)

 

target unchanged at 1447

 

wont post anymore on this trade.

 

Nobody's here, Muir. I'm sure you noticed that chat isn't exactly crammed, even during the day. And only 10 people are logged in now other than you and me. If you were to post a chart ahead of time, at least you might get some questions/comments.

[Guest Muir]

 

 

Ok,you forced me to do the right thing:angry:

 

Just kiddin, I figured out TOS chart saving

 

 

In the attachment one can scroll to the right.

 

p.s. sometimes I would have just scalped this for the quick 5 ¢ (or points x 3)

 

we're at 1432 were I was 5 minutes into the trade for a quick 18¢¢s or 144 tick profit

 

took one off the table, stop raised.

 

Going to bed with orders in place.

 

Good night

 

30 full days hourly

Edited March 21, 2013 by Muir

[Guest Muir]

 

 

picture perfect Wyckoff!

 

easy money short trade

[Guest Muir]

real time trade

questions answered upon request.

 

flat.

waiting for pullback

target the same as last nights: 1447ish

 

 

edit: missed it just hit 1446 got too cute :crap:

 

but got a major chunk of the move out off the springboard:rofl:

 

this trade is over for me.

 

Time to look over the charts

Edited March 21, 2013 by Muir

[tupapa 10]

The reversal in gold is taking place as anticipated. If price breaks 1620, the reversal is complete.

 

But what about silver? I am standing aside for the time being, but price is at support, so eventually one side must give up.

 

Looking at the chart, I know it doesn't have the classic HL and LH pattern of a springboard, but the volume is diminishing appreciably.

 

Less volume, means less traders willing to bid and offer inside the current price range, so it seems safe to assume that eventually, price will depart the range, looking for value elsewhere.

 

Is anybody else trading this? If so, are you treating it as a springboard or do you have other views?

 

[DbPhoenix 42]

You appear to be equating springboard with hinge. A hinge is a type of springboard, but a springboard can take other forms, such as a rectangular trading range. A springboard is simply "a preparation for an advance". That so many don't recognize it just makes it that much more powerful since those people are caught by surprise.

[tupapa 10]

Ah my bad. So the defining characteristic is the diminishing volume right?

 

Like, in this case, buyers are taking everything that is on offer around the current level, but eventually, sellers could refuse to offer at current prices and buyers will be left there, waiting for their bids to get filled...

 

That's when preparations are complete.

[DbPhoenix 42]

Scan the course using Ctrl+F "springboard" (no quotes)

[Guest Muir]

You appear to be equating springboard with hinge. A hinge is a type of springboard, but a springboard can take other forms, such as a rectangular trading range. A springboard is simply "a preparation for an advance". That so many don't recognize it just makes it that much more powerful since those people are caught by surprise.

 

A hinge shows disagreement between long term buyers and sellers.

 

Whereas a genuine springboard shows accumulation, it's quiet (until the breakout, of course.) Hints are subtle but can be seen by looking at volume, price levitates at times but doesn't seem to break out of a range. [numerous examples on the course]

 

The correct trade on the springboard can be (before the breakout, Wyckoff favorite) the breakout, finally the pullback (which I never got and had to buy after the breakout) but no matter which the entry is simple: hit the buy button.

 

Now the hinge can be very violent, giving numerous false directions (as short sellers covers, long term buyers still in disagreement etc.) Usually occurring around a certain point which we both know. Yeah eventually you get a direction, but different dynamics and feel.

Edited April 3, 2013 by DbPhoenix

[Guest Muir]

The reversal in gold is taking place as anticipated. If price breaks 1620, the reversal is complete.

 

1

 

But what about silver?

 

Less volume, means less traders willing to bid and offer inside the current price range, so it seems safe to assume that eventually, price will depart the range, looking for value elsewhere.

2

 

Is anybody else trading this? If so, are you treating it as a springboard or do you have other views?

3

 

 

1. NO

2. Interesting way to look at it, have got to let that sink in, you are correct that value will be sought elsewhere

3. It's a hinge as DB pointed out

[gozila 10]

position of secondary reaction is it ?? higher low + higher high or

 

Db phoenix.... if you have any materials or documents about secondary reaction for wyckoff pure method, please

[DbPhoenix 42]

position of secondary reaction is it ?? higher low + higher high or

 

Db phoenix.... if you have any materials or documents about secondary reaction for wyckoff pure method, please

 

Yes, Wyckoff's course. Scan it using Ctrl+F "secondary reaction" (without the quotes).

[gozila 10]

Yes, Wyckoff's course. Scan it using Ctrl+F "secondary reaction" (without the quotes).

 

 

sorry Dbphoenix, i do what you said but ican not find it

[tomerok 10]

sorry Dbphoenix, i do what you said but ican not find it

 

gozilla

 

follow the link Db posted, you'll see in the post an attached file (pdf)

download it and search inside the pdf.

 

Tomer.

[tupapa 10]

I believe you are mistaken here DB

 

A hinge shows disagreement between long term buyers and sellers.

 

 

This is obviously wrong. A hinge shows agreement between buyers and sellers since price is compressing and the value range getting narrower. If there was disagreement, price would be trending, looking for value.

 

Traders agree= Price is static.

Traders disagree= Price is dynamic.

 

Whereas a genuine springboard shows accumulation, it's quiet (until the breakout, of course.) Hints are subtle but can be seen by looking at volume, price levitates at times but doesn't seem to break out of a range. [numerous examples on the course]

 

The correct trade on the springboard can be (before the breakout, Wyckoff favorite) the breakout, finally the pullback (which I never got and had to buy after the breakout) but no matter which the entry is simple: hit the buy button.

 

Now the hinge can be very violent, giving numerous false directions (as short sellers covers, long term buyers still in disagreement etc.) Usually occurring around a certain point which we both know. Yeah eventually you get a direction, but different dynamics and feel.

 

I wouldn't say there is a correct way to trade something, it is a matter of how much information risk and how much price risk you are willing to assume.

 

1. NO

Yes. (I have already posted everything that has to be said on gold)

 

3. It's a hinge as DB pointed out

NO. It is a springboard, as DB pointed out, I was mistakenly assuming that every springboard is a hinge. A hinge is a type of springboard, but current silver price action is not a Hinge. Edited April 3, 2013 by DbPhoenix

[DbPhoenix 42]

NO. It is a springboard, as DB pointed out, I was mistakenly assuming that every springboard is a hinge. A hinge is a type of springboard, but current silver price action is not a Hinge.

 

I was unclear. My apologies. What you have is a hinge. It is also a springboard. A hinge is a subset of springboards and had certain defining characteristics that are not shared with all springboards. Thus a hinge begins with a characteristic LH and HL, but a springboard can be a perfect rectangle.

 

Given all that I've written about AMT (see the stickie), I really don't want to get into this again. Wyckoff didn't care about jargon and labels. Look at how many synonyms he used for equilibrium. And it would serve no purpose to come up with special names for the many ways that traders can prepare for an advance, either up or down. Keep it simple. Something is either trending, getting ready to trend, or clipping its toenails. Getting more complicated than that just clouds the picture.

[Guest Muir]

Good luck with this.

Edited March 25, 2013 by DbPhoenix
Delete inc info

[Guest Muir]

It is dangerous to oversimplify Wyckoff.

Edited March 25, 2013 by DbPhoenix
edited for content

[DbPhoenix 42]

This forum is not about taking potshots at each other. From this point forward, any such posts will be edited or deleted.

 

Muir, an accumulative base is a springboard. It is not the only springboard.

 

As for the hinge, tupapa described its dynamics correctly.

 

When it comes to correcting each other, do so with respect. These threads are collegial, not competitive. Any suggestion of the latter will, again, be edited or deleted entirely.

Edited April 3, 2013 by DbPhoenix

[Guest Muir]

This forum is not about taking potshots at each other. From this point forward, any such posts will be edited or deleted.

 

Muir, an accumulative base is a springboard. It is not the only springboard.

 

As for the hinge, tupapa described its dynamics correctly.

 

When it comes to correcting each other, do so with respect. These threads are collegial, not competitive. Any suggestion of the latter will, again, be edited or deleted entirely.

 

I self edited both posts.

You are correct on the etiquette , of course.

Edited April 3, 2013 by DbPhoenix

[gozila 10]

DbPhoenix any comment why first entry not work will or ( i mean why first second reaction not work will )

[DbPhoenix 42]

DbPhoenix any comment why first entry not work will or ( i mean why first second reaction not work will )

 

Oh, goodie. VSA. If I were to be consistent with past behavior, I'd refuse to answer this question. Not only that, but it's Forex. However, you keep coming back looking for answers, and that should be rewarded.

 

Taking your questions from left to right, there is no such thing as "stopping volume". It's a stupid idea. I'm not even going to get into it. Just forget about it (after noting that "stopping volume" doesn't stop anything any more often than rattling beads and turning three times counter-clockwise would).

 

Second, there 's no reason to expect a "selling climax" since there's no support for selling to climax at. If you back up a day, you've got at least half a dozen "selling climaxes" that weren't. Therefore, you need to study up on what a selling climax is and where it's most likely to take place.

 

Even so, if you entered anyway, which you did, you were too late. You should have entered on the first higher low, i.e., the reaction. But even entering too late, you could have made at least a little money by exiting on the break of a simple demand line (see the Glossary).

 

As for "what happened?", sellers weren't done. Good enough reason to exit, even if you didn't short the next leg down. You chose to enter long again, but, as above, you entered too late, at the second higher low.

 

My suggestions are to forget about VSA and Forex. Trade something real using a logical and reasonable method. If you insist on trading Forex, note from the chart below that you should have bought this last November (if you wanted to daytrade, you could have traded the long side for three months). Instead you have chosen to trade something that's been forming a hinge since early February, which puts you in the middle of chop. And there's a good reason why it's called "chop".

 

You can't build a trading methodology out of bits and pieces of this and that from here and there. If you want to learn and apply the Wyckoff method, great. Everything you need to know is right here. But if you continue to try to make VSA work, particularly with Forex, I'll have to refer you to the VSA Forum.

 

Best of luck.

 

Edit: I've posted a second chart to show an alternative way of entering and managing this trade.

Edited March 22, 2013 by DbPhoenix

[gozila 10]

Thank you DbPhoenix i am trying to catch second reaction because i am thinking it is danger point which is the least risk

[DbPhoenix 42]

Thank you DbPhoenix i am trying to catch second reaction because i am thinking it is danger point which is the least risk

 

True, if it's a genuine secondary reaction. Otherwise, you're just giving away your money.

[eminiman414 10]

If one is approaching the stock market using the wyckoff methods what would be considered the average? Something like the Nasdaq composite?