Trading The Wyckoff Way

[Gringo 10]

My work has restrictions and I couldn't get the streaming RT data working even after downloading NT. This also has the added disadvantage that I can't see price behaviour before the open and have to rely on QQQ. I also couldn't use pre-market highs and lows but overall it isn't a bad experience. I also cannot go bar-intervals shorter than a minute to peek into the congestion zones but it's the idea of price move that's my main concern now. Once I start seeing the behaviour well then trading instruments can be adjusted as required.

 

So instead of sitting at my hands I just follow on web based platform by refreshing price a gazillion times using QQQ. But in the end it's screen time for me. Also after the replays at faster speeds the stress at the normal speed is lower as I have more time to think. Replays are like weight training in a sense.

 

Q's move the same way just the price is different and that's what I am really concerned about now. Later on I'll probably be trading with larger bar intervals to trade whenever that times comes as trading futures is going to be logistically tricky at work.

 

Gringo

Edited September 20, 2012 by Gringo

[DbPhoenix 42]

Why not use ForexPros? That's what I've been using because I've wanted to use only free stuff for beginners. The data may not be dead accurate, but it's more than good enough for practice. And testing is done on hindsight charts. If one then wants to get serious and go into replay, that's another matter. But for the test drive, ForexPros is more than adequate. If you want help on navigation and setup, let me know.

 

Db

[DbPhoenix 42]

BTW, if you're using something that doesn't trade overnight, don't include the gap in the chart you're working with. Otherwise, everything gets scrunched up and it's far more difficult to see what you're doing.

 

This is what your Q chart ought to look like:

 

 

 

Db

[Gringo 10]

Yes Db,

 

I wasn't aware of ForexPro. I have already gone to the site and opened up NQ 100 and am seeing their data is pretty good. For my day practice needs it's sufficient. At home I have replay data on NinjaTrader for practice. Now I can use even day time for screen time. I love it!

 

Yes, I'll try to exclude the previous day's gap from the chart. I had trouble recognizing the NQ chart because there wasn't a gap in it today. I had an idea it might be the case but still it's a bit of extra work to re-align the eye to the price.

 

Gringo

[DbPhoenix 42]

There won't be any gaps since NQ trades overnite. As for the "aligning", I assume you opened up the interactive bar chart that has the bar interval buttons (1m to 1D). If so, you can use the slider at the bottom to expand and contract the view. If you can't go back far enough using the 1m, switch to 15m or 60m to find whatever S/R and/or TRs you need. This saves having multiple charts open. Then you can contract it again to give yourself a trading view. You can also draw TLs and S/R lines from the macro view to avoid having to continue to expand and re-contract your view.

 

Not bad for free. But being free, you may have to reload it now and then when it gets lazy about plotting every bar. When the time comes, you can subscribe to a more vigorous datafeed.

 

Db

[Gringo 10]

Db,

 

Using Q's the S/R looked close enough but looking at NQ I might have had to wait until price reached closer to S/R as it drifting in the middle of the midpoint and S/R and about 5 points away.

 

Had I been using NQ future chart I might have not taken either the long and the subsequent short. Price is at a position where it's own behaviour is the only guide (I guess it always is for that matter), but we are in no-man's-land and this kind of creates a conundrum of sorts whether to initiate a trade at all until price gets closer to some S/R or even midpoint.

 

How would you have acted based on price behaviour. To me it appears as if it was a discretionary decision and initiating a position early on or waiting for price to get closer to S/R or the midpoint were both correct decisions.

 

 

Gringo

[DbPhoenix 42]

This is where the prep becomes important. Price was sitting in the middle of a dinky little TR before the open, then shot up straight to R at 48, so, yes, a short would have been justifiable. It then dropped down into a zone that had been established since early on the 17th, so, again, yes, a long would have been justifiable. But to be prepared for all this, one has to have located those levels ahead of time. Otherwise, it just looks like price is reversing here or reversing there for no reason at all.

 

Note also that when price rebounds, it again finds R at 48, then retraces, then finds R at 48 yet again before breaking through and heading toward the higher R at 53-4. And, on a side note, everything comes more or less to a halt at that point, at 1100.

 

So, yes, one should wait until price approaches S or R or a midpoint, but one has to have determined ahead of time where those levels and zones are.

 

You are welcome, of course, to post your anticipated S/R levels before the market opens.

 

Db

[Gringo 10]

Db,

 

Thanks for your reply. Now it all makes sense. The Trading in Foresight thread might get a lift now that I have live futures.

 

Gringo

[DbPhoenix 42]

To illustrate what I was referring to above, and going back to the beginning of this non-directional mess, here are longer-term charts of the NQ showing the "macro" ranges we're dealing with. Nothing sophisticated. Just lines and boxes for the simple folk .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

Hi DB,

 

Do you do anything ahead of the session to try and anticipate whether the market is likely to be choppy and rangebound within that 1min timeframe, or just trade what you see as the session gets underway?

 

Thanks,

 

BlueHorseshoe

[DbPhoenix 42]

Hi DB,

 

Do you do anything ahead of the session to try and anticipate whether the market is likely to be choppy and rangebound within that 1min timeframe, or just trade what you see as the session gets underway?

 

Thanks,

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

I posted charts every morning last week in the TIF thread. There are similar charts posted in previous weeks, months, and years. There are also "foresight" charts posted in the TR thread, which was begun a year before the TIF thread.

 

"Trading what see" isn't an option since this is all based on S&R. If I don't know where the S&R are, then I don't know if we're trending or rangebound, and if I don't know that, it's all just a guess.

 

Db

[Gringo 10]

Hi DB,

 

Do you do anything ahead of the session to try and anticipate whether the market is likely to be choppy and rangebound within that 1min timeframe, or just trade what you see as the session gets underway?

 

Thanks,

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

There are rumours of Db tossing virgins in the volcano for favourable outcomes. :rofl:

 

Gringo

[DbPhoenix 42]

There are rumours of Db tossing virgins in the volcano for favourable outcomes. :rofl:

 

Gringo

 

Actually, that's Mark Helweg (allegedly).

 

Db

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

There are rumours of Db tossing virgins in the volcano for favourable outcomes. :rofl:

 

Gringo

 

Let's just be very clear on this:

 

I have total respect for DB, his great commitment to the threads he runs, and his willingness to share his knowledge and experience. I regularly read his threads and have found them helpful - and I agree with the vast majority of what he says - if I didn't then why else would I be here on this thread asking his opinions and advice?

 

All of this, though, doesn't mean that I can't disagree with specific things he might claim.

 

I am sure that DB doesn't wish to have his every utterance glorified as some kind of guru, and appreciates that anyone with intelligence will engage critically with what he posts.

 

BlueHorseshoe

[Gringo 10]

Let's just be very clear on this:

 

I have total respect for DB, his great commitment to the threads he runs, and his willingness to share his knowledge and experience. I regularly read his threads and have found them helpful - and I agree with the vast majority of what he says - if I didn't then why else would I be here on this thread asking his opinions and advice?

 

All of this, though, doesn't mean that I can't disagree with specific things he might claim.

 

I am sure that DB doesn't wish to have his every utterance glorified as some kind of guru, and appreciates that anyone with intelligence will engage critically with what he posts.

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

You are right.

 

Gringo

[TradeRunner 10]

 

This was something I was watching from the 14th. I saw the hinge in real time and anticipated a bounce at the hinge centre and it wasn't a shock to see price reverse where it did.

 

Not the best opportunity of the day, but thought I should sit through some ranges for the practice.

 

I don't have any questions, but comments welcome.

 

TradeRunner

[tupapa 10]

I am posting a trade that I missed last Friday due to a lack of preparation and experience plotting S/R levels. Thursday evening I uploaded a 10K CVB chart with the major levels I would be looking for on Friday, I am trying to be very disciplined and trading only of the levels I plot in advance.

 

Over the last week, the bund has opened with many Gaps and finding good S/R levels has been challenging to say the least. On Friday, the market opened at 88 and the levels I had in this area where 65, 78, 95 and 09, as you can see on the following chart from my log.

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachments/103/31381d1348155630-tupapas-log-21-09-levels.jpg

 

I didn't take the short because I am trying to be extraordinarily disciplined trading only of levels plotted in advance, but after the session on Friday, I was wondering if sellers came out of nowhere or had I missed something...

 

Looking back at the hourly chart, I noticed a small congestion that had formed the day before between 140.15 and 140.25, and where did price reverse? At the exact midpoint of this range.

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachments/103/31399d1348240334-tupapas-log-bund-afternoon-21-09.jpg

 

 

This demonstrated how important it is not just to understand the nature of S/R, but to put the effort into identifying the levels, and plotting them before one starts trading.

Edited September 23, 2012 by tupapa

[Gringo 10]

The NQ 100 price dropped below the range that's been a few days old now. The S/R was at around 2839 for me.

 

I didn't take the long early in the day but after 10:09am started entering the shorts. Had a gain of around 3 points. For me not losing big is a biggie and following the ebb and flow of price has allowed me to not get caught in the wrong direction for long.

 

Below are the longer term and 1 min charts. I haven't indicated entry/exit points as I am beginning to realize the importance of what Db is attempting to point out in this wonderful thread. Once the price behaviour is more or less determined correctly making entries and exits according to some plan isn't that much of a big deal.

 

 

1 min:

 

Gringo

 

Edit: I also noticed the price getting lethargic after 10:30 am or so. It's not visible on the chart but because of that I didn't get caught in the last TR. Because it was closer to 11am and a HL for price but also having an S/R above kind of also led to taking it easy.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Gringo

[PrymeTyme 10]

Hello tupapa

 

i dont trade gold ATM .. just paper trading and tracking like i would if i trade gold

(same for stocks )

 

i would have entered on the test of the hinge-midpoint .. and added on the tests,

 

as for exits ..

well for that you would need to know my trading plan.. wich in this case is different

as i have two seperate plans one for intraday and one for swing/position trading

 

i dont use TPs on position trading , i will diversify each position to keep the balance on a smooth and steady upwards stride.. and to cover losses..

 

attached are my trading plans... the first one i ever wrote(TradePlan) and the two actual and updated ones(Intraday/Swing).. they change regulary as for example i dont use PnFs anymore and some other stuff.. i rewrite them regulary ,add or delete stuff ,, they change as my progress changes ..

 

cheers

 

 

 

Just to Complete this stuff..

 

i added ,how i Journal my sessions/trades..

 

like ,Homework( PreTrade analysis)

Scenarios

Execution / Management

Comments

Review.. etc..

 

 

this was a very short session today .. as my 9to5 got in my way ..

 

but it should guve u guys some insight on how i approach journaling ..

 

cheers

JournalIntraday.rar

[philmg 10]

I would like to understand, if it makes any sense to use constant volume bars instead of time bars, when trying to learn the wyckoff method. I have not really found anything about it in the forum so far.

 

would be great to hear your thoughts!

[DbPhoenix 42]

It really doesn't matter what kind of bar one uses as long as he understands that it's all about price movement, not what he chooses to display it. The problem with bars and candles is that the beginner/trader starts thinking about this bar is longer than that bar, or higher, or it's red or it's green, or it's inside or outside, or it looks like a pin or whatever. None of that is in any way relevant to the continuous flow of price. If one can't get past any of that, I suggest he use as small a bar interval as possible so that he can stop focusing on the bars and focus instead on what the bars are illustrating. Once he accomplishes the latter, he'll find that whatever he uses to illustrate the price movement is largely a matter of convenience.

 

Db

[Gringo 10]

We're close to the mid of the large TR from 2839 to 2865. The mini price consolidation areas with coloured boxes have been identified and so have their mids with dotted lines. I'll be paying attention in the vicinity of these levels and based on price behaviour make trading decision.

 

If price reverses or weakens around 2852 or whereabouts I might short if it shows strength might decide to go long. It's difficult to precisely pinpoint simply because I'll be looking the behaviour of the price around those levels and they're not treated as hard support or resistance levels. Mostly likely though I won't be going long when under the S/R and not going short if S/R is right below. There has to be some distance for me to chose to enter for reasonable profit objectives.

 

 

Gringo

[DbPhoenix 42]

I was wondering if anybody was going to pick up on this. But you may have already gotten your test a half hour ago

 

Db

[DbPhoenix 42]

See how price is reacting to the test of S?

 

Db

[Gringo 10]

Hi Db,

 

I am posting my 90 min trading in the TBP thread.

I did go short by the way not at the highest point but got a 3 or so points out of it for a start.

 

Gringo.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Gringo