Tape Reading Questions

[davla 10]

has anyone considered reviewing tick data relative to the bid/ask and their quantites at the partucular point in time ?

 

I notie there are other threads on tape reading and some new fancy tools tlaked about, such as CQG's products.

 

My own interstis to analyze their relationships in historical and then can easily set up a real time monitor forthese situations, so it is not so much trying to watch the tape, as it does move quite fast

any thoughts?

[BlowFish 10]

One problem with having order book (or just bid ask) changes as part of your historical analysis is that I know of no one that provides an historical database of that data. Of course that doesn't mean such a thing doesn't exists.

[Guest MRC & Co]

 

I think the pulled limits are quite fascinating to watch... sometimes they are bots trying to manipulate the markets. Happens often premarket when the markets are still thin. However, I think both information are equally important if you are a tape reader.

 

Actually, I would say what hits market is more important. All you are trying to work out is WHO is buying and WHEN, this is my opinion.

 

It is often you see a spoof of a spoof. Someone who wants you to believe the ask is weak for example and spoofs a big order at the ask. Traders then run the price in that direction and give the guy who was 'spoofing' a better fill.

 

You can see order movements in the ladder, it is often you see bids or asks retreat. Just watch the volumes change or even vanish and create a wider spread. As said in the video though, to trade this, YOU HAVE TO BE FAST!!!!!

[theprophe 10]

This tool is great, thanks for posting this video SoulTrader.

 

Looking forward to the next one.

 

cheers

 

I hope you make another vid, i find that cqg ticker tool to put me into a trance, im thinking of trying a demo with cqg, so anything else you can offer that makes cqg unique, i would love to hear, thanks again

[Guest MRC & Co]

You don't need it.

 

Just use the normal order book with lvl 2 data, IB provides this.

[telengard 10]

You don't need it.

 

Just use the normal order book with lvl 2 data, IB provides this.

 

I've been writing some programs using their API and it doesn't seem that they have a true Time and Sales. They seem to aggregate the data (I've compared against my DTN IQ feed). I'd love to duplicate what this tool does but I think I'd need to use IQ for it. Good idea using Level II.

 

~telengard

[eliaun 10]

Hi.

well you people talk here about t+s but you forget about momentum.

 

momentum plays is one of the best and maybe the best thing in a scalpers toolbox and is used both for reversals and in following the trend.

its like a rubber band you stretch it a bit and it goes back slowly, but if you stretch it fast to one side it can go to the other side even faster and with greater momentum.

anyone knows what i am talking about here ?

[BlowFish 10]

Yes indeed eliaun. Though (imho) the best way of judging momentum is in real time either by how fast the 'tape' is passing or how quickly price and or the bars are doing there thing.

[eliaun 10]

when i scalp i only trade real time!!!! the now moment, nothin else!

[eliaun 10]

Hey

thats why i dont like indicators etc... they take the reality of the market away.

[O-3 10]

Soultrader,

Would it be possible for you to do another video of this tool if you get a chance?

 

I really enjoyed that first one.

 

Cheers.

[xburbx 10]

I notice that big lot rejection that soultrader is talking about a lot on the ES. Goes over the line by a tick or 2 and gets slammed back by the big guys that were waiting.

[dougr 10]

I've been writing some programs using their API and it doesn't seem that they have a true Time and Sales. They seem to aggregate the data (I've compared against my DTN IQ feed). I'd love to duplicate what this tool does but I think I'd need to use IQ for it. Good idea using Level II.

 

~telengard

 

hi telenguard,

 

just saw your post about datafeed and i use Iqfeed and was told recently that even IQfeed aggregrates trades and to look at Esignal. I did and they were right, Esignal is much better, they have every trade where IQfeed clumps them together, not as much as IB but enough to matter to me. u may want to check it out, i am switching to esignal.

[dougr 10]

Can someone please let me know where I can access more information on the tecniques of tape reading. I have looked around and can't find much information. Thank you!

 

i only trade on time and sales and have no indicators, i have a blog which shows my trades, how I trade and P/L everyday. I am new to this so I do not claim to be an expert but you are welcome to read it but I do not think I can post it here so you will have to send me a private message and I will share bmy blogsite. I show and talk about the basics of tape reading.

[dougr 10]

Dougr, I am glad you brought this up because I have been thinking the exact same thing. I watch the T&S on my sierra charting s/w with a data feed from Interactive Brokers.

 

But, let me back up a second here. I have been a member of the lab forum for while now, but have kept my mouth shut because I am wannabe trader. However, having seen you mention this, I realize that this phenomena is not just a mis-interpretation because I am inexperienced.

 

I trade the premarket ES and the EUR between 7-9 Eastern everyday before I start my office job. And I noticed this pattern too. Where you would see big block trades on the ask, and the price would go down (and the other way to when big hits on bid).

 

So, after losing money a few times trying to follow what I believed were the big boys, I just simply started ignoring the big trades.

 

However, that hasn't stopped me from trying to learn to read tape to support my entries/exits.

 

My main style is looking for confluence of MP, Pivot points, Fibs, and Dynamic Trendlines, but I'm trying to use the Tape as a means of supporting my decission to avoid the fake-outs.

 

- Steve

 

hey steve, u r exactly right, use tape reading to support your decisions, however, most of my decisions are based on the tape. if u ever want to see how i trade, send me a note and i will share my blog which documents exactly how i traade everyday.

[darthtrader3.0beta 10]

hi telenguard,

 

just saw your post about datafeed and i use Iqfeed and was told recently that even IQfeed aggregrates trades and to look at Esignal. I did and they were right, Esignal is much better, they have every trade where IQfeed clumps them together, not as much as IB but enough to matter to me. u may want to check it out, i am switching to esignal.

 

You really should check your software first. What did you use to test this as it is a concern for me too?

I just figured out though that ninjatraders tape with DTN was "clumping" things togather because ninja has an option in the time and sales window to take 250ms snapshots or not. When you turn this off you see way more trades than with it on, even though 250ms seems insanely fast.

[dougr 10]

You really should check your software first. What did you use to test this as it is a concern for me too?

I just figured out though that ninjatraders tape with DTN was "clumping" things togather because ninja has an option in the time and sales window to take 250ms snapshots or not. When you turn this off you see way more trades than with it on, even though 250ms seems insanely fast.

 

all i did was watch time and sales, it is very evident, i can show you pictures if you like, but i would think you want to prove it to yourself. there is no question that esignal is the more accurate feed when looking at ALL trades. it has been proven in the past and is still the same. i ran time and sales on two computers at the same time and just watched the trades. check it out and you will see the same thing. No need to get fancy just watch the trades. It is especially evident if you watch the ES. Don't take my word for it just get the feeds and check it out.

 

iqfeed is still good and i could still read the tape by watching the time and sales with iqfeed but i want the best.

[Alcoeus 10]

I don't scalp, but I've always been interested in it and have read about it in a number of forums. I can't remember which ET thread, but there were a few that went into detail trying to explain the seemingly counter-intuitiveness of the large lot trades right before reversing.

 

I remember one of the more interesting theories was based on the fact that the big players need to sell or cover large amounts of contracts without moving the market against them. This relates to another related phenomenon where price moves to size (moves to large bid/asks on the DOM). The big players want to see if they are real which gives them an opportunity to dump their lots. So they move the price up to the large bids or asks to test them. If they are real they take them resulting in the large lot prints. They are done now, and the pressure is done so the market reverses.

 

That's what I got out of it. Dougr, I'd be interested in your blog if you could send me the url. Thanks!

[dougr 10]

I don't scalp, but I've always been interested in it and have read about it in a number of forums. I can't remember which ET thread, but there were a few that went into detail trying to explain the seemingly counter-intuitiveness of the large lot trades right before reversing.

 

I remember one of the more interesting theories was based on the fact that the big players need to sell or cover large amounts of contracts without moving the market against them. This relates to another related phenomenon where price moves to size (moves to large bid/asks on the DOM). The big players want to see if they are real which gives them an opportunity to dump their lots. So they move the price up to the large bids or asks to test them. If they are real they take them resulting in the large lot prints. They are done now, and the pressure is done so the market reverses.

 

That's what I got out of it. Dougr, I'd be interested in your blog if you could send me the url. Thanks!

 

 

Here it is, nothing fancy but up to date and the way I trade.

ymtapetraader.blogspot.com

[gustav 10]

Hi,

 

I'd like to see your blog, but the url is not working

[dougr 10]

sorry but i stopped allowing the public to see it. to me it was too much good information that i want to keep private.

[gustav 10]

ok,it's a pity, but i understand your reasons.