Sandbox

[Niko 10]

Hehe, similar drill as yesterday for the long side, went down, tested 35 and jumped back up, still rising, but I missed the entry in the REV and did not want to mess with it after it.

 

Took 2 trades

 

1. Long after making a HH and a RET (failed)

2. Short after making a LL and a RET (failed as well)

 

Will gonna come back in an hour to run replay and make more comments and review about the day.

[Niko 10]

Well, the same omissions as yesterday and the same results, a bad couple of trades in a great day.

 

Here are the trades I spotted but did not take because I was not sure about them and the reasons that made me unsure (my fears).

 

1. That is the long I took, I think I would take it again if I had to, and the SCR, well that is something that can be reconsidered in these trades that just dont go anywhere after my entry, but for now, the 2 pts max loss will still be the parameter.

 

2. Here is where things are a little different, as my long went nowhere, almost like a dog, I thought about shorting, but I did not because, they have tried down already and failed and that would send me against the mean at 28

 

Then we made a LL and I started looking for opps to enter short, but the correction was way to deep and I just abandoned the idea of a short once we crossed 50% at 28. That is why even after the DL is broken and a LH appears I dont place shorts in the chart.

 

As price falls to make a LL I changed my mind from trend day to a TC day, and avoided trading within it.

 

3. Traders failed to find buyers at the UL of the TC signaling weakness, and as prices fell below the LSL I decided to risk another short, I knew I was oversold and at 50%, but I thought we could just continue on the way down, but that did not happen and I got SCR.

 

4. Here is the Big missed REV, as we hit 35 (it was in my prep, I cant say I did not know), but I did not take it just because I am not taking REVs so far, but it was pretty clean and easy to trade.

 

5. Even if the REV wasnt taken a SL was broken and a RET came, if that is not enough, the tight DL that broke made a Dog (another reason to go long). I passed because it wast against the mean and we were still inside the TC.

 

6. TC UL (another SL) was broken and a RET formed, I did not take it because I was still below the OH, but it was clean again.

 

7. Just before closing shop at 11:00 and after the new up TC had formed a test of the LL of the TC occurred (RET) triggering another entry. This one I actually took in the demo account and is still open with a 26 pts profit. :doh:

 

Just to clarify, the lines were not drawn in RT but are provided to show what I was "seeing" in my mind.

 

Things to do better tomorrow. Take REVs. For now, no more, take it one step at the time. If it works, keep on going, if it doesn't take a step back and reevaluate.

[DbPhoenix 42]

4. Here is the Big missed REV, as we hit 35 (it was in my prep, I cant say I did not know), but I did not take it just because I am not taking REVs so far, but it was pretty clean and easy to trade.

 

5. Even if the REV wasnt taken a SL was broken and a RET came, if that is not enough, the tight DL that broke made a Dog (another reason to go long). I passed because it wast against the mean and we were still inside the TC.

 

These are only rationalizations for not taking the trades.

 

You are the only one who noted the potential importance of 35, and yet after price bounced off it, and broke the SL, and made a retracement, you still didn't take the trade ( the "Dog" is just a simple retracement). Means and TCs are irrelevant to the trade. And by not taking it, you missed out on a 30pt do-nothing trade.

 

There are all sorts of reasons for not taking a trade, but unless you address whatever it is you're feeling when the ops present themselves, you will not likely ever get past the point of finding reasons to do nothing.

 

Edit: I strongly urge you to vocalize what you're thinking and feeling during the trading session into some sort of voice recorder, perhaps a DVR. Perhaps this will enable you to shed some light on whatever it is that's preventing you from taking the correct actions at the correct time.

Edited June 5, 2014 by DbPhoenix

[Niko 10]

These are only rationalizations for not taking the trades.

 

You are the only one who noted the potential importance of 35, and yet after price bounced off it, and broke the SL, and made a retracement, you still didn't take the trade ( the "Dog" is just a simple retracement). Means and TCs are irrelevant to the trade. And by not taking it, you missed out on a 30pt do-nothing trade.

 

There are all sorts of reasons for not taking a trade, but unless you address whatever it is you're feeling when the ops present themselves, you will not likely ever get past the point of finding reasons to do nothing.

 

Edit: I strongly urge you to vocalize what you're thinking and feeling during the trading session into some sort of voice recorder, perhaps a DVR. Perhaps this will enable you to shed some light on whatever it is that's preventing you from taking the correct actions at the correct time.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I cant say that enough times... I will do that, today I tried but did not manage to define what was emotionally going on.

[k p 10]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I cant say that enough times... I will do that, today I tried but did not manage to define what was emotionally going on.

 

Niko... can you share what you were specifically thinking at this time?

 

I can recall somewhat well, and the discussion was about how this looked like a down slopping TC, so although we saw the bounce at 35, we were expecting it to turn around when it hit the top line. Then it seems that we both didn't want to take a trade around the mean/apex at 48/49, and then, although I'm not sure what you were thinking, but I had the area in mind where we both tried a long at 54 that turned on us right away as an area to potentially stay away from/clear first. Lastly, for me, it was that the move was missed, it had moved too far, and any RETs can now be deep enough to stop me out even though the direction might still be up. So I have developed a habit of not taking a trade after I miss the initial move for fear the trend might be ending just as I'm getting in.

 

I like how Db said that means and TCs are irrelevant to the trade. I think my problem is that I want to believe what is happening, so its a matter of not seeing what is happening but seeing what I want to see. On top of this, I think I have a somewhat negative bias in life, and hence, I think of reasons why the trade won't work. I don't know how to switch from seeing its going down to believing that it can now go up.

 

Anyway.... I hope you have some recollection you can share.

[DbPhoenix 42]

If you're trading in chat, don't.

[k p 10]

We mostly stay quiet for the beginning, but then when not much is going on we will talk. But yes, right around the time price hit 35 this morning we were talking. I absolutely see how trading isn't a team sport though, and since its an individual enterprise, the talking might very well be hindering each of us.

Edited June 5, 2014 by k p

[DbPhoenix 42]

If there is to be any discussion of the landscape, it should be done before the open. I've suggested that all of this be posted no later than 0900 so that it can be discussed, but no one does this on a regular basis, so no discussion.

 

At the open of one's session, however, it's time to make the call, and that has to be made by the individual, without distraction, without multiple inputs, without chat. Those who can't do so merely perpetuate an endless phase of simtrading and are never able to move on.

[k p 10]

Thank-you so much for the feedback Db.

 

Niko, I am sure you won't disagree, so my proposal is that we can catch up in the morning to have a discussion if anything comes up, and a few minutes before the open we can disconnect. We can always log back in after 11 for a briefing if our schedules permit and the trading is in fact finished.

[DbPhoenix 42]

we can catch up in the morning to have a discussion if anything comes up

 

What exactly does this mean?

[k p 10]

What exactly does this mean?

 

When I wrote it, I thought of two areas perhaps. One was to do with the prep, although I suspect that we could just read what eachother posts to their journal. The second was perhaps a further discussion about the previous day. For example, if he doesn't get around to posting what he was thinking during the time, I was curious how he was interpreting the information. (like what he was thinking at 35 this morning)

 

I suspect that his experience won't be of any benefit to myself and vice versa, and perhaps, it would be bad if some of our bad habits rubbed off onto each other. But perhaps talking about some of the trades might shine a light onto something. A specific example was that I didn't know that we can treat two bars with the exact same bar heights as a RET to go long for example. I always thought that the second bar needs to be at least one tick lower to classify as a legitimate RET on the one minute chart (although in a 15 second chart the RET would more than likely be there). That is how I meant it mostly, to share something that the other person may have missed.

 

But if what you are leaning towards is not influencing each other in a way that would be detrimental by putting ideas into our heads that we never would have had in there otherwise, then I understand how a prep discussion would be bad.

[DbPhoenix 42]

Are the two of you having some sort of private discussion?

[k p 10]

Its just about trading. Sometimes we even highlight one of your posts in case the other missed it. Perhaps we also share a feeling or two about missing a trade, or we do a bit of CSW just for fun, but we try and make sure to keep each other on track and stick to the rules. He sometimes shares a chart with me with possible channels drawn in, so in a way we are just mostly bouncing ideas off of each other.

[DbPhoenix 42]

Its just about trading. Sometimes we even highlight one of your posts in case the other missed it. Perhaps we also share a feeling or two about missing a trade, or we do a bit of CSW just for fun, but we try and make sure to keep each other on track and stick to the rules. He sometimes shares a chart with me with possible channels drawn in, so in a way we are just mostly bouncing ideas off of each other.

 

None of this, however, appears to be resulting in improved performance.

 

This isn't a class, and no one is being graded. If the prep and the review and the analysis and the "how to improve" are all seen as chores, then there's no point in doing them. If there is to be no discussion, then a public forum serves no purpose. If the session itself is so boring that one must resort to chat in order to fill the time, thereby distracting himself from the trades he ought to be taking, then the trader should reconsider his goals and objectives and either stop daytrading entirely or resort to scalping.

[DbPhoenix 42]

This may be important today:

[k p 10]

None of this, however, appears to be resulting in improved performance.

 

This isn't a class, and no one is being graded. If the prep and the review and the analysis and the "how to improve" are all seen as chores, then there's no point in doing them. If there is to be no discussion, then a public forum serves no purpose. If the session itself is so boring that one must resort to chat in order to fill the time, thereby distracting himself from the trades he ought to be taking, then the trader should reconsider his goals and objectives and either stop daytrading entirely or resort to scalping.

 

It is absolutely true that this hasn't led to any increase in performance, and my main goal is making money.

 

On that note, I have to go do my prep. If I may ask, because Niko and I have talked about this, on a day when price isn't trending too well, is there a strategy you would suggest for scalping? Of course in the long run, fighting for ticks isn't what is going to bring in the most money, but is there a strategy you suggest if one was inclined to scalp in a slow environment?

 

I see you posted a very helpful chart in the ghost thread for today, so I will start with this in my prep.

[eminiman414 10]

84 and 76 were the limits overnight, now 87 seems to be holding at the moment. DB posted the TC which is also noted. Continuing down we have 60ish (58 being the swing) which is 50% of the move from the bounce from 35ish to yesterdays high. Moving down the range btw 35 and 15 with the mean of 25 and then 07.

 

And 87 broke and we continue higher. Maybe 3800 today?

[Wolfhound 10]

Today we got past our previous highs. I made two trades, the second of which would have been good if I had a wider stop, or some re-entry criteria.

 

1. We opened up to 55 and then reversed. After moving down we turned at the midpoint of the overnight range

 

2. Next we couldn't get back to 55 again, and when we moved down we couldn't get through the overnight lows at 40 either. Where next?

 

3. This time we get through the lows and I placed a short when we had retraced a bit. We turned at the 50% point of yesterday's low to the overnight high, and I exited.

 

4. The supply line is broken, and I entered a long on the retracement. The exit is on the same bar. These exits annoy me. A stop below the swing low seems sensible, but I would need to accept a 4 point loss if it was triggered. I really need to sort this out or start re-entering.

[Niko 10]

I will join this conversation later, had to take my daughter to school and got late to work. Will finish my prep and focus on my trading.

[Wolfhound 10]

A big move up yesterday, and overnight. The news of new highs seems to have brought in people eager to pay the high prices. We will follow it up as it goes, and be prepared for the falls when they occour.

 

Overnight we have ranged from 76 up to 84, with a midpoint at 80. Currently we broke above 84 in the morning and are headed past 90. Yesterday's low is at 34, and the 50% to todays high is at 62 for the moment.

[Niko 10]

We are still in an uptrend, seems like some good news at 8:30 took us above PDH and so far traders have not been able to get above 91. At the time of the post, buyers are showing up around LSH at 87 and above 50% at 83. There has been no selling below 76 overnite.

 

If we keep on going up today, we will have to rely exclusively on the PA in front of us. If we go down then 83, 76, and 62 will be my initial focus.

 

Remember, you are supposed to take the trades until you detect chop and only then are you supposed to stop, doing anything else is just fear and fear has to be taken out.

[eminiman414 10]

Rejected 90, biggest sell wave since 8:30, DL broken, however 87/prev swing high is holding. We'll see what happens as we move up again towards 90. 50% of the up move is about 84 also the top of the ON range before the break.

[DbPhoenix 42]

It is absolutely true that this hasn't led to any increase in performance, and my main goal is making money.

 

Then avoid the overcomplication and master the basics.

 

on a day when price isn't trending too well, is there a strategy you would suggest for scalping? Of course in the long run, fighting for ticks isn't what is going to bring in the most money, but is there a strategy you suggest if one was inclined to scalp in a slow environment?

 

No. It's not something I'm interested in.

[k p 10]

No. It's not something I'm interested in.

 

Thanks for the reply... I should make SLA work first before even thinking about other things, and once I make it work, I am sure I will see no reason to do anything else. Thinking about scalping is I'm sure just a result of fear and greed.

[Niko 10]

So far, no trades, even though I said I would take the REVs, doing so in such a tight congestion is not something I feel comfortable doing. Until I dont see sellers interested below 81 or buyers interested above 91 I wont mess with this.