Sandbox

[Bern 10]

  Gringo said:

This looks like a piece of cake

 

Gringo

 

The morning was indeed easy! I did not trade in the afternoon, just watched :missy: but it was also a dream of market . If only it could be like the majority of days...

[DbPhoenix 42]

...................................

[DbPhoenix 42]

If there are any questions about today's chart, they can be posted here.

[MightyMouse 12]

  Bern said:

These were the trades today:

 

Looks like nice trading!

 

Are the consecutive arrows points where you added to a position? If so, great!

 

Do you ever add when it goes against you?

[Niko 10]

Great trading. I have a couple of questions

 

Actually it's just following the rules, though double bottoms and double tops generally trump everything else IF they occur against something. In this case, 18 was pre-determined to be a level to watch.

 

Reversals rarely offer retracements. The supply line there is broken after price bounces off 18 the first time. Therefore one looks for the first long opportunity. This occurs when price tests 18 again, which is also a higher low, though marginally. If one doesn't take it, most likely he has a bias that's preventing him from seeing what's in front of him.

 

The fact that you waited for the break of LSL before shorting was because you were still holding the long, or there was something else that told you that shorting above 70 was too early.?

 

AMT said that shorting before 80 was too early. Nonetheless, the short was taken. That it was scratched immediately carried its own message. Given the number of points made by that time, giving price a little extra leeway was not a concern.

 

I guess i would have gone long at 1:00 any reason not to?

 

Depends on how you draw your line. In any event, it would have been scratched immediately.

 

I dont understand the short around 10:10, failure to get higher prices at 50%?

 

There is no short at 1010. First short is around 1050.

Edited May 9, 2014 by DbPhoenix

[Bern 10]

  MightyMouse said:

Looks like nice trading!

 

Are the consecutive arrows points where you added to a position? If so, great!

 

Do you ever add when it goes against you?

 

First of all: this is all sim for the moment, not real money, although the sim trades are taken real time through T4 platform.

 

Yes, consecutive arrows are add ons.

 

No, now I never add when it goes against (but I have done it in the past!)

 

Thanks.

[Niko 10]

Lineless prepwork

 

Yesterday was a failed attempt to halt a decline towards 480, after sellers defined that it was enough at 523 buyers just were able to get prices to 538 where they spent the rest of the night.

 

From 3:00 AM they tried to look for sellers and so far they had been successful making a new low at 20.

 

At the moment of the post, seems like buyers are interested above 20 again but buyer´s interest is still needed above 32 in order to make a difference.

 

Seems like the current mean is 38.

 

Not quite. If you look at the halfway level of Wednesday's downmove, you'll find 33. This is the level around which traders have been congregating ever since Wed evening.

 

As I started adding lines, 38 started to bring some doubt, but I was gonna go with it given that it was the price where sellers gave up PM yest and buyers gave up yest evening. That is coincident with the halfway of the rise from 497 to 580.

 

Now as I am supposed to look for the places where most trades are taking place, then 36 is more accurate, thanks.

 

9:03 And 36 it was

 

Actually it should be 33. I've corrected it.

 

Thanks

Edited May 9, 2014 by Niko

[eminiman414 10]

finding this morning's prep to be a little more difficult. Why? I do not know. For example we have the mean of the daily hinge at 40, we have the previous hinge means of 30 and 18, we are near the mean of the TC and right now we are sitting at 28. Given the last couple of days and given where price is in relation to these means is today likely to be a choppy day? Can the limits of the daily hinge be played as extremes or is trading within a longer term hinge a different story?

 

I guess to me it is when does a prior mean or extreme not become relevant in terms of planning? Since we moved pretty much equally around 50 yesterday and that is also a mean is that still a price level to keep an eye on? This to me is where I have had my issues with AMT. Is it okay that I have all of these levels in my head as long as my plan is simplified enough to be able to trade without handcuffs and not wanting to exit every time we hesitate at particular price levels which appear to be every 10 points or so. Will today be one of those "wavey" up and down SLA days that trumps AMT?

 

I think to keep it simple I will wait to see what happens above 40 and/or below 18. Above 40 keeping an eye on 50 and the top of the TC. Below 18 on 3500, 3480 and 3470/71.

[Niko 10]

Levels

 

Above us:

 

36

50

80

90

 

Below us:

 

18

500

80

[Bern 10]

This are prices and areas I will be watching:

[green.green 10]

Is 80 based off a hinge on the hourly? (Not depicted on your chart).

 

From last Friday.

Edited May 9, 2014 by DbPhoenix

[Niko 10]

  Quote

 

There is no short at 1010. First short is around 1050.

 

My bad, i meant 1:10 or around, the second short of the afternoon to be precise.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

The demand line is broken and the short is taken at the first retracement thereafter.

 

Hehehe, :doh:

Edited May 9, 2014 by Niko

[Niko 10]

Messed up today, I am out of focus, I have been after missing a reentry at the open, just felt the anxiety within me, I pushed it and it didn't work. Fortunately the plan calls for a daily loss limit that can only be achieved by being out of sync with price and it was hit. So I am done trading for the day, will come back later to journal, I don't feel in the mood at the time.

 

If one were to apply the SLA mechanically, there were at least a half-dozen stopouts during the first 45m. At some point, one has to focus on what traders are doing. Otherwise, it's just one stopout after another. The SLA guards against that unless one is unreasonably stubborn.

 

Thanks, I was actually not even tracing lines today, the problem today, as every other day of the week was me. I took a short after the open, got scratched and when tried to get back in I messed up with the platform order entry and missed the trade, it was that that made me lose focus and start getting in where I should have not. I will go deeper into this later in the afternoon, as this cannot happen again.

 

BTW I appreciate a lot this follow up, thank you again.

 

Probably the same short I took. And then I tried a long half an hour later, which also got stopped out, and didn't want to trade around the mean, so I did nothing until the lower high at 1030. We'll see.

Edited May 9, 2014 by DbPhoenix

[eminiman414 10]

Waited for price to get under 18. 18 then held so I entered the RET short. Nothing going on there so trade was exited. Since nothing really happened under 18 I took the next long opportunity. I was giving price room but my exit was literally at the 50% mark and right at about 18. Here either I needed to exit on the DL break probably at breakeven or give price a bit of room under 50%. To exit right at 50% doesn't make much sense logically. I re-entered off the bounce of 18 which was also 50% of the up wave. This one was exited pretty quickly. After that this day started to remind me of the Gorilla in the room day.

 

I had some other places where I wanted to enter and why I did not I really have no idea as this is sim. I suppose if it was real money I wouldn't have made any more entries so that's why I did not in sim. I did mark off places I thought of entering. I suppose I need better planning. I had my eyes on 18 and 40. I need to take it a step further and decide what I am going to do if price gets there. I am ok with what happened at 18. After we began moving back up I basically just went with the SLA for the next two trades. Price did get to 40 and there were two opps to enter and I didn't. Why? I do not know. Entering around 40 my thoughts were coming back to the mean around the 26-23 area first and then to 11. Most likely losing those trades has some affect on that.

 

Picking out the price levels for the day while I am getting better at, I am missing a big piece to the puzzle which is what am I going to do exactly when/if price gets there. What am I looking for one way or the other? What is expected is this or that happens OR does not happen? It is unacceptable to miss the action at 40. It becomes a profitable day.

 

I will work on getting more detailed in my planning and not plan pretty much on the fly.

[Bern 10]

These were the trades today:

[Niko 10]

This is something I have printed and posted in my wall, today is living proof of that:

 

  Quote

"...but the problem is not lack of explanation, it's fear fog...."

 

These are the trades for the day:

 

1. After the open, they decided they wanted to go down, as they reached for buyers were rejected at 34 forming a LH, this was the trigger to enter, it had a stronger than expected pullback that got me SCR and there I was gonna reenter , but.... I didnt, something regarding the way I have my order configured in my platform and something I will address by monday.

 

After this trade I started to feel uneasy, anxious, angry, I think Is a word that describes what I was feeling, and that anger just got worse as I saw price cascade without looking back.

 

I tried to convince myself i could keep my cool, but the gut feeling was still there.

 

2. I managed to take the next RET, but it did not go anywhere hence got scratched.

 

3. As buyers rapidly absorbed all that was available even above the LSH at 18.50 and rapidly took advantage of the "bargains at 15.50" to load up on more I decided to join them, knowing that by now this could easily turn into a TR of sorts hence the management of the trade was to scratch as fast as the movement failed.

 

4. And here is where anxiety blurred my mind, by now I already had 3 trades that did not go perform as expected and I was looking for "the trade" that would change my morning" (against the better advice of the zen rules (keep on folding)) I took a lame trade against the mean at 22 and I got hit with a 2 point SCR.

 

5. After Breaking out of the opening range waited for a RET and jumped into what I expected to become a trend but didn't, in this case was the reentry that got me into trouble, as I hesitated to exit fast and the market went against me 2 full points once again.

 

6. DL broken and prices were refusing to keep on rising, stubbornness, stupidity, there is really no much of a reason to take this long other than betting and hope, I really feel ashamed of this last one.

 

There is no 7, just because I have reached my daily drawdown limit.

 

Things I cant screw up next week.

 

1. IF A TRADE IS NOT SCRATCHED IS BECAUSE IS A GOOD ONE, LET IT GO ON ITS WAY, DONT TOUCH IT, DONT PARTIALLY CLOSE IT, DONT DO ANYTHING UNLESS YOUR PLAN TELLS YOU TO, IS PRETTY EASY, IT IS WRITTEN ALL OVER YOUR JOURNAL AND EVERYONE ELSES, JUST DO IT!!!!

 

2. IF AN OPERATIONAL ERROR OCCURS, RECORD IT, LOOK FOR WAYS TO IMPROVE IT AND EAT THE "LOST OPPORTUNITY" DONT DWELL ON IT, DONT COUNT YOUR UNREALIZED PROFITS, DONT GET ANGRY, IF IT HAPPENS, AND YOU KNOW WHEN IT HAPPENS BY HOW YOU FEEL, JUST TURN OFF THE SCREEN GO TAKE A 10 MINUTE WALK, IF BY THE TIME YOU COME BACK THERE IS STILL SOMETHING WORTHY OF TRADING GO AHEAD AND TRADE IF NOT, BE THANKFUL YOU DID NOT REACH YOUR DAILY LOSS LIMIT LIKE TODAY

 

 

Why are you trading around the mean?

Edited May 10, 2014 by Niko

[Niko 10]

  Bern said:

These were the trades today:

 

What did you do right, what did you do wrong, how would you improve your trading for next week?

[Gringo 10]

Niko,

 

You'll be fine as long as you don't use 'red' for your comments. Red means Db now! Your mind will adapt. I haven't found anything worthwhile to trade in quite a few days and I am not interested in marginal trades much. So enjoy and keep in mind, May is here.

 

Gringo

[Niko 10]

  Quote

 

Why are you trading around the mean?

 

Stupidity, and lack of attention at the time, will not happen again.

[Niko 10]

  Gringo said:

Niko,

 

You'll be fine as long as you don't use 'red' for your comments. Red means Db now! Your mind will adapt. I haven't found anything worthwhile to trade in quite a few days and I am not interested in marginal trades much. So enjoy and keep in mind, May is here.

 

Gringo

 

Duly noted and acted upon.

[Niko 10]

I have been reading the nature of risk, great book. Very pertinent for me this week, I must eliminate hesitation and learn to sit tight.

 

Thanks again for this excellent recomendation.

[Hooti 10]

  Niko said:

..............as this cannot happen again.

 

But for me this kind of thing happened and happened and happened again.

It may be one of the harder things of trading to know you can do it sim trading, but somehow not do it live. All I can say is that I’m improving trading live but it is a lot of little shifts in thinking and emotions: peeling layer after layer of the onion.

 

It must have something to do with Db’s disinterest in which side is winning. They are having a discussion in the ET thread “what was the ***last*** thing you learned before becoming profitable” thread, and Handle123 & Cornix were talking about having to think with effort to get going in trading, and then learning not to over think to become profitable. It makes more sense when they say it! But this is another way of finding Db’s ‘disinterest’.

 

For me recently, a degree of disinterest comes from looking at prep as making a map, and then the trading day is seeing what reality does with it, or in spite of it. Somehow that separates it from being so personal for me. I found some sort of emotional freedom, or perhaps disinterest in which side is winning.

Don’t know if the map concept would work for anyone else.

 

I guess some people can get it all at once, maybe 40D did. But for me it’s been a slow grind, yet my live NQ account is slowly creeping up every week, a reflection of being able to trade correctly and getting better at less hesitation. So just know it might take awhile, but I hope you are one of the ones who can make this go like flipping a switch on or off! Forget that onion and all those layers! ...unless you are sitting at my table where the smell of onions is oh so strong.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Hooti

[Niko 10]

  Hooti said:

But for me this kind of thing happened and happened and happened again.

It may be one of the harder things of trading to know you can do it sim trading, but somehow not do it live. All I can say is that I’m improving trading live but it is a lot of little shifts in thinking and emotions: peeling layer after layer of the onion.

 

It must have something to do with Db’s disinterest in which side is winning. They are having a discussion in the ET thread “what was the ***last*** thing you learned before becoming profitable” thread, and Handle123 & Cornix were talking about having to think with effort to get going in trading, and then learning not to over think to become profitable. It makes more sense when they say it! But this is another way of finding Db’s ‘disinterest’.

 

For me recently, a degree of disinterest comes from looking at prep as making a map, and then the trading day is seeing what reality does with it, or in spite of it. Somehow that separates it from being so personal for me. I found some sort of emotional freedom, or perhaps disinterest in which side is winning.

Don’t know if the map concept would work for anyone else.

 

I guess some people can get it all at once, maybe 40D did. But for me it’s been a slow grind, yet my live NQ account is slowly creeping up every week, a reflection of being able to trade correctly and getting better at less hesitation. So just know it might take awhile, but I hope you are one of the ones who can make this go like flipping a switch on or off! Forget that onion and all those layers! ...unless you are sitting at my table where the smell of onions is oh so strong.

 

Hehehe, I am not sure I can flip the switch just yet, but lets just take it one step at the time, follow the rules, keep on self improving and if we are fortunate, things will end up making sense enough to be able to take emotion away on the way.

 

I hope you have a great trading week.

[Niko 10]

Overnite traders settled around 55, just a couple of hours ago they ventured to the upside and so far have been unable to get above 70.

 

Given the upside exploration the trend is currently upwards, but we have to take into consideration that we are still inside a huge hinge from the daily with lots of eq zones on the way we have to deal with.

 

If an uptrend it is then we will have to deal with :

 

70

80

90

04

 

If selling starts to increase to the point of overwhelming buying, then on the downside there are some trades to clear on:

 

55

30 area

20

500

I suggest you play it as it lays rather than concern yourself with so many levels.

 

Price broke out of its earlier range at 58. It rose to 69. If one had gone long, he'd be out when the DL was broken or when price dropped out of the sideways movement thereafter. There was no short ret in this dropout. So he waits.

 

Now price is trying to break out of this through 70. If it does, just trade it normally. Traders will tell you where the limits and the congestions are by how they trade.

 

Thanks, yes as I was writing the levels I assumed you were gonna tell me something like this, I just marked those areas that seem to have been visited by traders often, but given the whole environment we are in they seem to pop up every 10 points, turning them useless for the open.

 

I will watch traders and let them tell me where they cant find anymore trades.

 

These islands have been criss-crossed so many times the past couple of weeks that they may no longer be pertinent. Traders develop a been-there-done-that attitude. You may benefit by backing off a bit and focusing on the bigger picture, such as this giant hinge, and the upper limit of the March TC.

 

Ok, I will do that.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Niko

[Niko 10]

In a micro view, traders seem to be unable to find counterparties above 70 and below 64.

 

As for plans for the day:

 

Dont trade at the mean, if they cant find direction at the opening you know they will probably wander around the mean and entries will be hard so why bother.

 

Thursday and friday were busy afternoons for me so I could not get far in my turning points exercise, I will add some more observations today.