Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

jonbig04

Edge VS Mentality

Recommended Posts

Note: this post is for those few who are really going for high high pareto levels… it is ‘bad advice’ or :offtopic: for everyone else.

 

We have some posters who almost totally favor edge over mentality, some that almost totally favor mentality over edge work and we have some that marginally favor one over the other. As I have previously posted, I find it increasingly necessary to do both concurrently and diligently. I call it ‘up the middle way’, but it can also be seen as ‘consciously re-expanding to contain and balance this polarity’, etc.

 

In my experiences with self and confirmed in working with and helping other traders, it dawned on me that the side (of this ‘argument’) a trader is discounting is the one that needs an increase in priority (but don’t try to just come out and tell that to one of the extremists or know it all’s in here or elsewhere :) ). Balanced emphasis, even when it doesn’t seem related at all, to the mentality side opens one to discovering and implementing edges. And 'obsessing' on the mentality side spawned by the painful consequences of ‘acting out’, etc. indicates a need for more edge work.

 

Basically, beginners at all levels will progress much more rapidly if they spend equal time and energy on the mentality side as they do charts, grail seeking, edge discovery. This includes building a practice of immediately following mentality work with edge work and of immediately following edge work with mentality work…building a habit of immediately following progress in either ‘side’ with serious, value finding (not problem solving) questions about the progress’s implications to the other side. This kind of work is more arduous but it brings geometric returns. Your 'system' is found within you as much as it is objectively.

 

btw, for the target audience of this post - the ‘mentality’ side is not about psychology, new therapeutic modalities, problem solving, conflict resolution, working through fears, etc. If not those, then what is it?

 

Yours, much more humbly than this seems,

 

zdo

 

ps Have a great holiday weekend all

 

pps Yesterday sunilrohira posted this audio link over in the Trading Mind Software thread. It belongs smack up in the middle of this thread

http://club.ino.com/trading/2008/07/...aders-mindset/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Much of what produces success trading has to do with hard work of preparation and attitude (what we call discipline).

 

If you haven't done a good job of researching, and developing a detailed trading plan, then you are "in the weeds"....that is to say, you will not be able to last through the daily stresses of trading as a profession.

 

If you haven't got sufficient "experience" or you haven't got an idea of what to expect when executing your plan, then again you are "in the weeds"...the result is that you are always dealing with uncertainty....and this eventually will beat you down.

 

Most newbies don't have a detailed plan to follow, and because of that, they start to second guess when they lose. In contrast, skilled professionals have a detailed plan...They know what to expect in terms of wins and losses. They also know what kind of experience they will have on a daily basis. Finally they know how to deal psychologically with both success and failure.

 

I hope you will take the time to think about this and apply it to your situation.

 

Good luck

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve, thanks for reply. You are 100% right. I had a system that seemed to work pretty well. [indicators]. But have been trying a simpler system that uses only stochastics. have not grasped it & have no confidence, so do i revert back. A lot of people say get away from indicators, so I decided to try this,Stch crossovers. Support ,Resistance, & double tops bottoms using Inside bars as setup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sam,

 

Here is something that might or might not help ... ask what the stoch is telling you.

 

A stoch is basically a measure of how close the close is to the most recent X day range (high-low). So for a 6,3,3, stoch then 100% would imply that close was at the top of the 6 days. Its smoothed (3) and smoothed again (3) which give it lag which can actually be helpful also because it removes noise.

 

So, I'd suggest studying the stochs behaviour with this in mind. You might find after a while that you figure out what price move creates the stoch behaviour you are looking for. Even why it works sometimes and not other times.

 

Just a though.

 

Note: not a substitute for a solid un-secondguessable plan but might remove one more fuzzy variable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do very well paper trading, but after a few losses in real time I am reluctant to trade live. So what am I accomplishing? A great paper trading record? Can't go to the Bank with that.

 

Sam was like this also, when you see your doewn a substancial amount of money, it does something to the brain like it did me. What I did was change my platform to display "pips" instead of currency, and it eased my mind a little bit and it allowed me to ride out the rough points of my positions and not get "spooked" into closing positions before they make their moves.

 

:2c:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do very well paper trading, but after a few losses in real time I am reluctant to trade live. So what am I accomplishing? A great paper trading record? Can't go to the Bank with that.

 

Sam you are doing better than quite a few. Some people can not execute well in sim mode. To me that indicates that the fears go beyond that of simple financial loss. In your case that does not seem so.

 

Not sure where you trade from or what you trade but if you have access to spread betting or CFD's (contracts for difference) you might want to look at those. They will allow you to trade smaller size than a full contract if you trade indexes take a look at SPY or Q's. Basically rather than going from nothing to a full contract trade pennies and just concentrate on executing flawlessly for say 50 trades. Douglas talks about this exercise in his book. Basically you have to say to yourself even if my stop is hit 50 times i am only gonna loose $100 (or whatever it is) but I will follow through to the end flawlessly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sam,

 

Here are a few ideas to trigger the development of your own ideas for dealing with this.

 

idea 1: If you don’t have edge(s) that you literally LOVE, then demo / screen time / grail search until you do.

 

idea 2: If you do have edge(s) acceptable to you then - All done paper trading! ‘Get real’ and stay that way! With your current edge(s), mindfully, non judgementally face and bring your best game to each new trade. In the future you can demo to develop new skills or forward test new techniques, but with your current edge(s) – stop stroking yourself, stay real, and tough it out.

 

idea 3: If you do have edge(s), but have noted 'mental' issues then for the next x number of weeks, if you are daytrading, then MonWedFri are live days and TueThu are sim/demo/papertrading days. (If you are holding positions overnight then alternate trade 2 real, 1 fake for same basic effect.) Continue this until its obvious you don’t need it anymore, then go 4:1 real:pretend for daytrading days (and 4:1 real to fake positions if position trading) etc to quickly extinguish the papertrading days.

 

idea 4: For a time, restrict your notetaking/journaling to the subjective experiences you have before during and after ‘decision times’ - especially for comparison if you are doing something like idea 3. Even though the fears arise from habits of misrepresentation and misapplied identities, your work is not to destroy, correct, of apply ‘discipline’ or willpower to the ‘losing’. The work is to continue increasing your awareness and perspectives. The behavioral changes in your trading will come on their own!

If you do note/journal on your objective decisions, create a focus on what you are doing that is working far in excess of attention to what you are doing ‘wrong’. For example, if you were applying some version of idea 3 you would pour mental energy onto what’s working on your demo days and quickly acknowledge and forgive your screw ups and losses on live days. Your ‘discipline’ is to focus on how close to excellence you are. Screw trading plan ‘discipline’! If a trader has to apply discipline (in the sense of applying willpower to overcome an impulse or conflict), more than once a month then I question the compatibility of his trading plan with his true nature.

 

idea 5: forward click them freakin amygdala at least once an hour!

 

All the best,

 

zdo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • In Italy, I saw many of our brothers from different parts of Africa, sleeping and living in the park, the weather was very cold and its obvious that they were looked down upon. It made me want to cry and several questions overwhelmed my heart.   Is it not better to remain in Africa than to be homeless in this freezing cold weather?   I wish I have all the money in the world to rescue them...   Is this the reason why our skin color is looked down upon?   Do our government officials see this sight when they also travel outside of the country...does it hurt them or pain them like it pained me? By Frank Abah, Quora   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/   
    • ELV Elevance Health stock, watch for an upside gap breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?ELV
    • ORLY OReilly Automotive stock, nice top of range breakout, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?ORLY
    • Date: 28th March 2025.   Market Selloff Deepens as Tariff Concerns Weigh on Investors     Global stock markets extended their losing streak for a third day as concerns over looming US tariffs and an escalating trade war dampened investor sentiment. The flight to safety saw gold prices surge to a record high, underscoring growing risk aversion. Stock Selloff Intensifies The MSCI World Index recorded its longest losing streak in a month, while Asian equities saw their sharpest decline since late February. US and European stock futures also signalled potential weakness, while cryptocurrency markets retreated and bond yields edged lower. Investors are scaling back their exposure ahead of President Donald Trump’s expected announcement of ‘reciprocal tariffs’ on April 2. His latest move to impose a 25% levy on all foreign-made automobiles has sparked fresh concerns over inflation and economic growth, prompting traders to reassess their strategies. Investor Strategies Shift Market experts are adjusting their portfolios in anticipation of heightened volatility. ‘It’s impossible to predict Trump’s next move,’ said Xin-Yao Ng of Aberdeen Investments. ‘Our focus is on companies that are less vulnerable to tariff policies while taking advantage of market dips to find value opportunities.’ Yield Curve Signals Economic Concerns In the bond market, the spread between 30-year and 5-year US Treasury yields widened to its highest level since early 2022. Investors are bracing for potential Federal Reserve rate cuts if economic growth slows further. Long-term Treasury yields hit a one-month peak as inflation risks tied to tariffs spurred demand for higher-yielding assets. Boston Fed President Susan Collins noted that while tariffs may contribute to short-term price increases, their long-term effects remain uncertain. Gold Hits Record High as Safe-Haven Demand Rises Amid market turbulence, gold prices soared 0.7% on Friday, reaching an all-time high of $3,077.60 per ounce. Major banks have raised their price targets for the precious metal, with Goldman Sachs now forecasting gold to hit $3,300 per ounce by year-end. Looking Ahead As investors digest economic data showing US growth acceleration in Q4, attention will turn to Friday’s release of the personal consumption expenditures (PCE) price index—the Federal Reserve’s preferred inflation measure. This data will be critical in shaping expectations for future Fed policy moves. With markets on edge and trade tensions escalating, investors will closely monitor upcoming developments, particularly Trump’s tariff announcement next week, which could further dictate market direction.   Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Andria Pichidi HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Crypto hype is everywhere since it also making new riches as well, i however trade crypto little as compared to other forex trading pairs.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.