Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Frank

Multicharts Vs Ensign As Answer to Tradestations Faults

Recommended Posts

I used to love Tradestation. However, its pretty clear to me that Tradestation as a trading platform is seriously flawed. It started when they told me their architecture doesn't support the vertical axis functionality needed to do good Market Profile. Ok, but the straw that broke camels back is the apparent delay in data that occurs using Tradestation. I have many trader opinions who agree that they receive quotes faster on other platforms than they do on Tradestation. Clearly, trading with delayed data is major problem -- even if the delay is relatively small. (not to mention the outages that seemed to have been worked out by TS until this year).

 

This brings me to my question; after investigating the marketplace, I see 2 solid options: Multicharts and Ensign.

Ensign is a problem because I would effectively have to learn all the small tricks of EL programming I have figured out --- ie, tons of new syntax to learn. Multicharts sounds like great option as it says it can run EasyLanguage and apparently has an architecture that supports Market Profile.

 

My fear with Multicharts is that it goes the way of Tradestation --- slows down and or there are problems in translating EL to MC. However, if it works -- my existing EasyLanguage skillset could be utilized.

 

I see no real big cost difference.

 

If anyone has done a thorough competitive analysis of Ensign vs Multicharts, maybe you can chime in with which way I should lean and which direction to head as a trial.

 

A related question, what is fastest way to learn Ensign programming? --- I am not aware of a book on Ensign -- which is how I got started in EasyLanguage originally.

 

thx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would suggest using MC since most, if not all, of your TS things should transfer over. I was an avid user of MC prior to moving to Open ECry and found MC to be a pretty good option for charting. Who knows what the future may hold, so I would not factor that into my decision as Ensign could change things or have the same issues down the road as well. Just pure speculation at that point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why did you leave MC once you learned to use it? sounds like you liked it.

 

I have found EasyLanguage to be very powerful --- its just that TS has some serious baggage. I cannot compare EL to Ensign because I have never learned Ensign --- Ensign might be even more powerful than EL and I just don't know it.

 

I was wondering if you just weren't using the EL functionality (in MC) or if there was some other reason why you would recommend MC but aren't using it now...

 

on a side note, I noticed you get free data if you use Multicharts through Open Ecry -- maybe I should do that? Open account with Open Ecry and run Multicharts through it...

 

I am playing around with Ensign ESPL - their programming language - and it does look interesting -- its just that without a good text on it -- could be a lot of work and frustration for something that end of day is not better than EL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me Frank, I did not need the extras that MC offers vs. just using OEC's platform. My setup is pretty simple so OEC has what I need.

 

When I was using MC, I also plugged OEC data into that to save some data costs. That's a good way to go. Just keep in mind that OEC historical data is very limited currently so if you need a lot of historical data, you will still need another data source.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Frank said:
I am playing around with Ensign ESPL - their programming language - and it does look interesting -- its just that without a good text on it -- could be a lot of work and frustration for something that end of day is not better than EL.

 

Have you tried Ensign's chatroom ? http://ensign.editme.com/chat

They have quite a community of traders and also their support staff there. May be you want to pick their brains.

I have never seen Ensign ESPL being discussed in this forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took long time for TS to acknowledge the Data issue problem. They finally did month ago or so.. and they have done some changes that have improved the data feed/charting. If you are still experiencing issues with latest release 8.3, build 1631 and updated orchart.exe, then something else might be the cause of it. I agree with you that TS had problem, but I have not seen any issues in last 2-3 weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well nick, all of the savvy traders I interact with agree, while EL is an excellent software-analysis tool -- Tradestation is not a good platform for day-trading. at any given moment, it may be acting admirably -- but over time, it has proven to be an inadequate trading platform.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would never trade through TS. Great charting, backtesting, etc. but I would never risk money on that platform. I was on TS quite awhile ago and the platform to trade on is very unreliable and has not changed much as evidenced by this thread and many others out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm an MC fan because its EL compatoble and because it supports multi time frame data - you can mix minutes with volume with range etc

 

There's also a long list of other reasons including data time stamping.

Ensign is a great charting platform for non programmers but its architecture is also very old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are considering ensign you should also consider SierraChart.

 

Originally I was a tradestation user although I've used Metastock, TS, Ensign, SierraChart, IBChart, Multicharts, Ninja and probably a few I've forgotten in my explorations.

 

I was an ensign user for about 3 months after being a SC user. After 3 months I went back to SierraChart because ensign's espl language is interpretted and very slow compared with SC, Ensign has a lot of eye candy but it tends to be buggy (SierraChart is more reliable and almost totally so if you stay use the release versions not the prerelease versions).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Kiwi said:
If you are considering ensign you should also consider SierraChart.

 

Originally I was a tradestation user although I've used Metastock, TS, Ensign, SierraChart, IBChart, Multicharts, Ninja and probably a few I've forgotten in my explorations.

 

I was an ensign user for about 3 months after being a SC user. After 3 months I went back to SierraChart because ensign's espl language is interpretted and very slow compared with SC, Ensign has a lot of eye candy but it tends to be buggy (SierraChart is more reliable and almost totally so if you stay use the release versions not the prerelease versions).

 

I'm on month 2 with Ensign and am thinking of giving SC a go. For many reasons but the full MP for only 8 bucks more is something I want to delve into. I would get I believe level 9 which is good for transact data, has the EOD (I think they use DTN MA) and gives me TPO.

 

Any thoughts, suggestions or neat indicators you could share would be great.

 

Thanks,

MC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the look of Ensign the range of ways to visualise data is great. I have to agree with Kiwi in regards to ESPL being slow. IMO it is too slow to do any 'heavy duty' programming. Having said that it is really quite flexible in the range of things that it exposes to the scripting language.

 

Multicharts has finally become fairly robust (despite a few remaining niggles). Personally I like the speed and ease of doing stuff in easy language. I have a couple of reservations about TSsupport but thats hard to quantify.

 

A lot depends on what you want to do, sadly there does not seem to be a single package that covers all bases (for me at least). Ninjatrader is quite popular and fairly programmable, that might be worthy of consideration too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well, update is that I have been playing with Ensign and I am only on day 1 of a Multicharts trial and already know the answer to my original question. Multicharts is the answer.

 

This is an easy decision for me as I am pretty decent at EasyLanguage and Multicharts 'PowerLanguage' is virtually identical. The first few indicators I inputed with EL code worked flawlessly. Actually, the PowerLanguage editor looks superior to EL as its easier to read since its colored and there is a number for each code line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Tresor

What can I say, MC's new beta version has a scanner functionality now. The developer's team seem to progress to catch up their competitors.

 

From what I heard MC is to be discontinued this or next year and will be replaced with brand new project which is to be ahead of the competing software.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No doubt that MC is a great piece of software. It is good for TS to have a strong competitor as it should hopefully force TS to catch up as well.

 

A brand new 'MC' would be very interesting to see. If they improved on a few things, they could really blow TS and others out of the water.

 

Now there's a great business model - a solid, trader-friendly charting platform. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having been an early adopter of MC I am not sure I would buy into a new project. Actually, having paid early for the lifetime of the product its a little disconcerting for them to simply shelve the existing product and require all those early adopters that supported the development to pay again. No biggy I guess.

 

On the whole I like MC and most of the guys and girls over there are really helpful getting you sorted out. Having said that I do have some concerns. Their design goal seems to be to follow tradestation as closely as possible for look and feel. For easy language thats great but for a lot of other things TS is hardly state of the art being based itself on supercharts that is positively archaic. I wonder about there design skills, there are few (if any) things that you think wow thats elegantly done. Over the years it has been a real uphill battle to get things fixed or simple changes made in implementation in a more trader friendly way. I don't think any one over there is a trader (though I may be wrong) compare that to say Laurence Chan over at Neoticker and there is no contest. If Neoticker had a more user friendly scripting language it would blow MC out of the water. It does anyway to be honest. I really don't think TSsupport have much 'vision'.

 

An intermingled point is that if they do finally accept something really neat and fairly simple to implement (this in itself is a struggle as they can be pretty 'defensive' when dealing with suggestions) it will take months (or more) before something finally shows up. There philosophy seems to be push on adding features (many of which seem of dubious value) simply to tick boxes. Once the box is ticked they move on to the next 'box' leaving a half baked implementation behind them. Fortunately they seem to be catching up finally and core functionality is reasonable. Actually there development does not seem to be that controlled. Development cycles are fairly long simple things remain unfixed for ages you get hints of 'clunky' implementation and architecture and old bugs sometimes reappear etc.

 

MC has turned into quite a nice product (though for me it was a painful journey) but starting again I find it hard to see how TSsuport will compete with some of the strong competition. For example Ninja only added charting a short time and a couple of versions ago they will probablly be on version 9 10 or higher before TSSupport have a new beta .1 At Ensign you make a suggestion to Howard and I have known stuff to appear in days. IRT they carefully watch whats 'hot' and it just shows up in there software. Neoticker will probablly do whatever you could possibly want right now with some programming due to its amazing architecture. etc.

 

Anyway MC is now a good product (imo) however over the years it has cost me a vast (vast) amount of time and a not inconsiderable amount of money. (One of the reasons for writing this). I think MC2 I will leave until at least version 3.0 before taking a look at it unless it has an absolutely must have feature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Tresor

BlowFish,

 

I couldn't agree more with you. Especially, the lack of vision is annoying to many beta testers and those who devoted vast amount of their time to make suggestions on how improve the product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I am interacting with Multicharts for the first time so have no legacy axe to grind.

 

Until I see somebody do it, I am of the opinion that if you demand powerful charting functionality, you basically need to separate your charting from your trading platform. Tradestation has a problem doing both in terms of data delays and system crashes during high-volume moments.

 

After playing around with Ensign, I am reminded how easy it is to write a few lines in EasyLanguage and have it do EXACTLY what you want.

 

Therefore, as of now, I think the cleanest way to do this is to run Multicharts to get the EL functionality (with a data feed from eSignal) and then actually trade through someone like Interactive Brokers.

 

As a cost-effective approach, running MC through Open Ecry makes a ton of sense -- free data and $99/mo for the powerful functionality of EasyLanguage/PowerLanguage is a fantastic deal.

Edited by Frank

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't let my musings put you off Frank. You will feel at home with MC right of the bat. It will probablly do most (or even all) of what you require without having to learn a bunch of new stuff too. Good choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Frank said:

As a cost-effective approach, running MC through Open Ecry makes a ton of sense -- free data and $99/mo for the powerful functionality of EasyLanguage/PowerLanguage is a fantastic deal.

 

It really is. Prior to OEC getting their charting to the point that I could use it, I was using MC in this fashion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest forsearch
  brownsfan019 said:
It really is. Prior to OEC getting their charting to the point that I could use it, I was using MC in this fashion.

 

Yeah, and just when they get OEC stable and usable they go and change it again, without notice. Looks like the latest demo (3.2.0.3) now has a change in the timestamp for bars and candlesticks which makes no sense whatsoever. Take a quick look and compare it to the live version (3.2.0.1) and see for yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • NFLX Netflix stock watch, local support and resistance areas at 838.12 and 880.5 at https://stockconsultant.com/?NFLX
    • Date: 8th April 2025.   Markets Rebound Cautiously as US-China Tariff Tensions Deepen     Global markets staged a tentative recovery on Tuesday following a wave of volatility sparked by escalating trade tensions between the United States and China. The Asia-Pacific region showed signs of stability after a chaotic start to the week—though some pockets remained under pressure. Taiwan’s Taiex dropped 4.4%, dragged lower by losses in tech heavyweight TSMC. The world’s largest chipmaker fell another 4% on Tuesday and has now slumped 13.5% since April 2, when US President Donald Trump first unveiled what he called ‘Liberation Day’ tariffs.   However, broader sentiment across the region turned more positive, with several markets rebounding sharply after Monday’s dramatic sell-offs. Japan’s Nikkei 225 surged over 6% in early trading, rebounding from an 18-month low. South Korea’s Kospi rose marginally, and Australia’s ASX 200 gained 1.9%, driven by strength in mining stocks. Hong Kong’s Hang Seng rose 1.6%, though still far from recovering from Monday’s 13.2% crash—its worst day since the 1997 Asian financial crisis. China’s Shanghai Composite added 0.9%.   In Europe, DAX and FTSE 100 are up more than 1% in opening trade. EU Commission President von der Leyen repeated yesterday that the EU had offered reciprocal zero tariffs on manufactured goods previously and continues to stand by that offer. Others are also trying again to talk to Trump to get some sort of agreement that limits the impact.   Much of the rally appeared to be driven by dip-buying, as well as hopes that the intensifying trade war could still be defused through negotiations.   China Strikes Back: ‘We Will Fight to the End’   Tensions reached a boiling point after Trump threatened to impose an additional 50% tariff on all Chinese imports unless Beijing rolled back its retaliatory measures by April 8. ‘If China does not withdraw its 34% increase above their already long-term trading abuses by tomorrow... the United States will impose additional tariffs on China of 50%,’ Trump declared on social media.   If implemented, the new tariffs would bring total US duties on Chinese goods to a staggering 124%, factoring in the existing 20%, the 34% recently announced, and the proposed 50%.   In response, China’s Ministry of Commerce issued a stern warning, stating: ‘The US threat to escalate tariffs is a mistake on top of a mistake... If the US insists on its own way, China will fight to the end.’ The ministry also called for equal and respectful dialogue, though signs of compromise on either side remain scarce.   Beijing acted quickly to contain a market fallout. State funds intervened to support equities, and the People’s Bank of China set the yuan fixing at its weakest level since September 2023 to boost export competitiveness. Additionally, five-year interest rate swaps in China fell to their lowest levels since 2020, indicating potential for further monetary easing.   Trump Talks Tough on EU Too   Trump’s hardline approach extended beyond China. Speaking at a press conference, he rejected the European Union’s offer to eliminate tariffs on cars and industrial goods, accusing the bloc of ‘being very bad to us.’ He insisted that Europe would need to source its energy from the US, claiming the US could ‘knock off $350 billion in one week.’   The EU, meanwhile, backed away from a proposed 50% retaliatory tariff on American whiskey, opting instead for 25% duties on selected US goods in response to Trump’s steel and aluminium tariffs.     Volatile Wall Street Adds to the Drama   Wall Street experienced wild swings on Monday as investors processed the rapidly evolving trade conflict. The S&P 500 briefly fell 4.7% before rebounding 3.4%, nearly erasing its losses in what could have been its biggest one-day jump in years—if it had held. The Dow Jones Industrial Average sank by as much as 1,700 points early in the day but later climbed nearly 900 points before closing 349 points lower, down 0.9%. The Nasdaq ended up 0.1%.   The brief rally was fueled by a false rumour that Trump was considering a 90-day pause on tariffs—rumours that the White House quickly labelled ‘fake news.’ The market's sharp reaction underscored how desperate investors are for any sign that tensions might ease.   Oil Markets in Focus: Goldman Sachs Revises Forecasts   Crude prices also reflected the uncertainty, with US crude briefly dipping below $60 per barrel for the first time since 2021. As of early Tuesday, Brent crude was trading at $64.72, while WTI hovered around $61.26.   Goldman Sachs, in a note dated April 7, lowered its average price forecasts for Brent and WTI through 2025 and 2026, citing mounting recession risks and the potential for higher-than-expected supply from OPEC+.       Under a base-case scenario where the US avoids a recession and tariffs are reduced significantly before the April 9 implementation date, Goldman sees Brent at $62 per barrel and WTI at $58 by December 2025. These figures fall further to $55 and $51, respectively, by the end of 2026. This outlook also assumes moderate output increases from eight OPEC+ countries, with incremental boosts of 130,000–140,000 barrels per day in June and July.   However, should the US slip into a typical recession and OPEC production aligns with the bank’s baseline assumptions, Brent could retreat to $58 by the end of this year and to $50 by December 2026.   In a more bearish scenario involving a global GDP slowdown and no change to OPEC+ output levels, Brent prices might fall to $54 by year-end and $45 by late 2026. The most extreme projection—based on a simultaneous economic downturn and a full reversal of OPEC+ production cuts—would see Brent plunge to below $40 per barrel by the end of 2026.   Goldman noted that oil prices could outperform forecasts significantly if there was a dramatic shift in tariff policy and a surprise in global demand recovery.   Cautious Optimism, But Warnings Persist   With both Washington and Beijing showing no signs of backing down, markets are likely to remain volatile in the days ahead. Investors now turn their attention to upcoming trade meetings and policy decisions, hoping for clarity in what has become one of the most unpredictable trading environments in recent years.   Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Andria Pichidi HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.