Jonbig04's Log

[brownsfan019 17]

So it looks like I've racked up around $330 in commissions so far. Ouch.

 

Depending on how many contracts I was trading, that takes a decent or insanely large chunk of profit.

 

I'm glad you took the time to do that. Now you see why I suggested it.

[Guest forsearch]

Hmmm now I'm confused. The commish rates I looked at were per round turn. I assumed that meant that the costs were $4.30 per round turn if you trade 1, or 10 contracts....did I miss that up? Is it PER contract?

 

You assumed. Bad move. NEVER assume in this game. Your $$$ will get eaten alive, if not by the brokers, then certainly by the markets.

 

It is per round turn, per contract. Otherwise folks would try to load up on trades just to lower their commish costs, and the brokers aren't gonna allow that to happen.

 

Again, just to hammer the point home: NEVER ASSUME IN THIS GAME. If you're not sure or think you are making an assumption, just ask someone.

[atto 20]

Well said forsearch. So no, more contracts won't help your situation at all (until you start throwing around a lot of volume, and can re-negotiate comissions, but that's far off in the future).

 

A lesson I've learned the hard way is that you always get filled on bad trades, and not always on good ones. Makes sense, but if you do use limits, that potentially could effect your P/L more than you figure. On top of that, as much as you hate it, emotions will be in play. You will have money on the line, and fear and greed are little bastards.

 

This is even more reason to develop a solid plan. Make it as systematic as possible. Define everything, know exactly what you're looking for. As I mentioned before, start with one setup. The longer you just trust your "feel" of flow, the longer it will take (in my opinion). There's a few good Wyckoff style setups here that are great starts.

[smwinc 20]

Hmmm now I'm confused. The commish rates I looked at were per round turn. I assumed that meant that the costs were $4.30 per round turn if you trade 1, or 10 contracts....did I miss that up? Is it PER contract?

 

Yes, unless this is some strange broker, it is per contract.

 

Buy 1 contract = 2.15

Sell 1 contract = 2.15

= $4.30

 

Buy 10 contracts = 21.50

Sell 10 contracts = 21.50

= $43.00

 

However, in the long run, once you do larger volume, trader's switch to a volume-based commission model based on the volume they do.

 

Take some time to read through Interactive Brokers commission structure for futures - Bundled & Unbundled to get a feel for it.

 

http://individuals.interactivebrokers.com/en/accounts/fees/commission.php?ib_entity=llc

 

Futures Commissions Bundled vs Unbundled

 

http://individuals.interactivebrokers.com/en/p.php?f=futuresComparison&ib_entity=llc

 

Other brokers, such as Infinity Futures, will happily negotiate a "reasonable" commission based on the volume you do as well.

[jonbig04 10]

No trading today. Other things took up my concentration. No point in trading without 100% focus right? Will be back on tomorrow.

[jonbig04 10]

Well I wanted to trade today. I just couldn't. I couldn't see anything worth pursuing. A couple times I thought I did. Then I would wait to see what else was going to happen and it just wouldn't make any sense. There was some decent stuff by the end of the day. Maybe I'm a failure. Anyways I will try again tomorrow. Hopefully the market will represent some opportunities that are easier for me to see.

[That One Guy 10]

Well I wanted to trade today. I just couldn't. I couldn't see anything worth pursuing. A couple times I thought I did. Then I would wait to see what else was going to happen and it just wouldn't make any sense. There was some decent stuff by the end of the day. Maybe I'm a failure. Anyways I will try again tomorrow. Hopefully the market will represent some opportunities that are easier for me to see.

 

 

Sounds like what I am going through. I don't know exactly what I am looking for. I want to play s/r, and trade with the trend, but I haven't defined a complete way of doing all that. Lately, I, have been doing exactly what you posted, and sitting there seeing things and just feeling lost. What I have, is a bunch of ideas, but they are all disorganized. I, need to spend time defining what exactly I am looking for.

[jonbig04 10]

I feel you. I don't know...the NQ just seemed like chop today. It was nice in the beginning ( I always watch for a while before I start to trade) then it just kind of chopped around in a very small range. Until at one point it swung way up and the swung way down settling right where it began. it cleaned up towards the end of the day though...I just wasn't quick enough to spot any opportunities before they were gone.

[Head2k 10]

I papertrade ES and after 2 hours of observation today I decided to not to trade as well. There was a ISM Non-Manufacturing Composite announced at 10am which produced some minor action, but the rest of the day was dull because of waiting for FOMC Statement and Federal Funds Rate at 2:15pm. The announcement then produced some action, but I dont want to trade such announcements as it is high risk business.

 

Somtimes it is good to check some calendar so you know what to expect.

[jonbig04 10]

I papertrade ES and after 2 hours of observation today I decided to not to trade as well. There was a ISM Non-Manufacturing Composite announced at 10am which produced some minor action, but the rest of the day was dull because of waiting for FOMC Statement and Federal Funds Rate at 2:15pm. The announcement then produced some action, but I dont want to trade such announcements as it is high risk business.

 

Somtimes it is good to check some calendar so you know what to expect.

 

I thought that might be it, but I didn't want to say anything thinking that if I did all kinds of people would jump about all the great opportunities in the NQ today lol.

[atto 20]

I thought that might be it, but I didn't want to say anything thinking that if I did all kinds of people would jump about all the great opportunities in the NQ today lol.

Regardless of the day, if your trading plan does not present trades, don't take any. Simple as that. Today was a pretty solid trend day, which is odd for a FOMC day. I have found that, in general, new traders struggle with trend days, simply because you don't see them very often. Don't worry about it. I took a quick morning trade, and then sat out until FOMC (in general, I don't do as well on FOMC mornings/lunchtimes).

 

FOMC days are generally fairly dull, so don't worry about it. New traders shouldn't trade the actual anouncement either.

[Head2k 10]

I thought that might be it, but I didn't want to say anything thinking that if I did all kinds of people would jump about all the great opportunities in the NQ today lol.

I am a beginner like you, but I dont mind other people doing exercises such as jumping

[jonbig04 10]

Today was a good learning day. Results: +3.5 points

 

I didn't get to trade for a as long as I wanted to, had some other things to do..but that's ok.

 

 

Entered a short position at 10:48 because it looked like buying was exhausted and maybe even like the buying that took place before @10:44 was short covering...I don't know. Anyways price took a pretty nice dump from there and I stuck with it until it looked like the selling was over. Turns out it wasn't quite over, but I captured most of the move (5 points)

 

After that I was waiting for smart money to come in and buy, but as of right now I'm not seeing it. There was a nice spike, but it wasn't confirmed by enough volume and follow through for me to want to buy. Looks like I missed the boat at 11:22, but thats ok. Like I said it didn't have what I was looking for.

 

 

So I waited for a time to short. I got impatient and tried to jump in before It was obvious(11:33). It cost me 3.25 points. The first attempt I cut my losses to 1 point, the second time price jumped and stopped me out so quickly I literally didn't have time to react. If I would have just waited until it was obvious, I could have saved myself those points. Stupid. Anyways eventually I did get in when it became obvious to me (11:37) and I was able to get 2 points out of it.

 

I thought the buying was exhausted at 12:29. It wasn't and I took my losses and ran. Lost 1.5 points on that one, but I'm proud of myself for getting out then and not hitting my full stop of 2.5 points.

 

Looked like a freight train going up, so I entered a long position. Oddly enough when I did, things started to change. I exited out for a .75 point loss and went short. The short was a success as it made 2 points, however just as I need to be able to not hit my full stop loss, I should have sold when I saw things changing instead of hitting my trailing stop. I would have nabbed another point in a half if I would have sold when I saw the situation changing.

 

Today's lessons: Wait until the trade is OBVIOUS. Never be afraid of missing anything. Did decently well on not hitting my full stop, but I also need to work on not hitting my full trailing stop when I'm in the money.

[brownsfan019 17]

Curious why the chart is a 90 second chart. That's awfully fast to be learning from.

[atto 20]

Curious why the chart is a 90 second chart. That's awfully fast to be learning from.

He dropped into the chat room this afternoon. He actually trades off a 30 sec.

 

Answering to that, I don't see a real problem with a newbie using a fast chart as long as they aren't trying to trade every little squiggle. If you view price as continious, it travels at the same speed regardless of the chart timeframe (which are "summaries"). A fast timeframe just gives more "detail" (which could be a bad thing, depending on the trader, method, and setups).

 

We did speak today about using larger timeframes (daily, hourly, 15 min, etc) to set a context for current price action. Identifying S/R levels on a 30 second is very difficult if you can only see an hour (or whatever) on your chart.

 

edit: I know you've resisted forming a very defined trading plan (unless you just haven't posted about it yet). Maybe this post will help motivate you.

[brownsfan019 17]

He dropped into the chat room this afternoon. He actually trades off a 30 sec.

 

Answering to that, I don't see a real problem with a newbie using a fast chart as long as they aren't trying to trade every little squiggle. If you view price as continious, it travels at the same speed regardless of the chart timeframe (which are "summaries"). A fast timeframe just gives more "detail" (which could be a bad thing, depending on the trader, method, and setups).

 

We did speak today about using larger timeframes (daily, hourly, 15 min, etc) to set a context for current price action. Identifying S/R levels on a 30 second is very difficult if you can only see an hour (or whatever) on your chart.

 

A 30 or 90 second chart for a new trader is rather difficult IMO, but best of luck to our new friend here.

 

edit: I know you've resisted forming a very defined trading plan (unless you just haven't posted about it yet). Maybe this post will help motivate you.

 

To our new friend -

 

In case you haven't seen, check out the candlestick corner that I started and moderate, which has some very detailed information.

 

Edited August 7, 2008 by brownsfan019

[jonbig04 10]

No trading today.

 

Thanks guys for the advice. I just bought Db's book. Obviously I need to work harder on developing a detailed plan with rules etc. Paper trading has been fun and I've learned a lot of lessons already, but I could be putting the information to better use by using it to trying to define a set of rules etc. From now on I will be paper trading to that end.

 

 

There seem to be 2 parts to trading. Emotional Control and Method

 

I have read a lot about PA, and VA, and most importantly supply and demand. I suppose thats the reason my trading hasnt been that bad (6 up days out of 7). Or maybe its just a fluke. I don't know. But like I said it doesnt matter if I cant use the information i obtain to develop a specific methodology. I just ordered DB's book and hopefully that will help get me on the right track.

 

What I will be doing now: I'm reading all of Douglas' books ( I still believe the mental aspect is more important than anything else, so that will always be in the forefront of my mind). I will and do hold MYSELF accountable for all losses and gains, not the market, which is always right. I want to conquer my emotions to the point where my plan is all that matters. It will be well defined and rigorously tested so I will have no reservations in putting money on it when the time comes. When that happens nothing will be different. There is no difference in real money and paper money except for the difference I create and let affect me; which I don't plan on doing, and if it does affect me, I won't trade with real money. When I can trade with real money profitably and emotion free the amount of contracts will be arbitrary (except for the possibility of slippage which I will look into) whether its 1 or 50, it won't matter unless I let it matter.

 

 

That's where I'm at right now.

[jonbig04 10]

No trading. Still digging.

[jonbig04 10]

Ahh the frustration:angry:. I only took one trade today. It was a loser. Anyways here was my train of thought behind and during the trade:

 

To me the days bias was an up trend. I looked at some longer zoomed out charts and that's what I determined. I saw the one climax at 8:12 (My chart is 2 hours behind EST) and the pull back at 8:21. Price then congested a little (from what I've learned that can be expected after climaxes) and then resumed its normal pace in the uptrend. Then at 9:27 it happened again. As far as I was concerned the main trend was still an up trend and this was just a volume/volatility climax (term coined by Atto). Price pulled back as expected and congested as expected. At this point I drew a tentative support line at 1950. I waited for it to near it again and it did, and bounced. Also on the fast chart (5 sec) it touched it what looked like 10 times, being quickly pushed back up every time. With all his in mind I expected price to bounce off support again and resume the general up trend. I was planning on riding the main trend and exiting at a volatility climax. I entered near support at 1950.25. Price bounced off and quickly resumed in the uptrend I was expecting. All the way up to 1955.75. I could have taken profits there and I almost did, but I saw no reason to. Sure I was up by a good amount, but is that a good enough reason to sell when you're waiting for something else to happen (thats not a rhetorical question, I really want to know haha). I figured price would jump around with an upward bias for a while (which was exactly what it was doing) and eventually volume would come in hard (sending price up)and that's when I would sell. All the small retracements were on low volume.

 

Of course at 1955.75 price stalled out and started to drop. I really didn't care, but I should have. The high at 1955.75 (11:03) was a lower high compared to compared to 1957 (9:48), also volume was decent and price broke through my support level and stayed there on good volume. By this time there were a few lower highs and now a lower low. Combined with the rest of the factors was the market telling me that my prevailing uptrend wasn't around to save me. So I bailed at 1948 for a loss of 2 or so points.

 

Of course 1 minute later price rockets back up to 1954, then back down to 1945, and back up to 1955. :confused:

 

A couple things. Ninja always erases my stops and trailing stops when I turn it off. I then forget and enter the trade without my stops. If they had been there I probably would have gotten stopped out early on for a point or 2 in profit.

 

Was my reasoning sound here or was I simply mistaken?

 

Was I right about the trend and climaxes initially?

 

Was my support at 1950 ok?

 

I tried to stay in control. I thought I had a pretty good idea of what was going to happen. I guess I didn't. Did the trend itself reverse at 9:35? If so where was my first clue to the fact that it was a climax and reversal and not just climax like at 8:15? As I type price is STILL farting up and down between 1955 and 1945. I stopped trading because I don't know what the hell is going on. A higher high was made at 12:30 hmmmmm.

[atto 20]

...just a volume/volatility climax (term coined by Atto).

To clarify, this is just describing what I'm looking for. It's not any different than a traditional climax, where volume spikes, and volatility contracts. No new concept here, just is specifically what I'm looking for.

[jonbig04 10]

I suppose I could have looked at the lower higher at 9:47, but I don't know. Like I said I was expecting it to fall and congest like it did.

 

Where did I go wrong?

[BlowFish 10]

I suppose I could have looked at the lower higher at 9:47, but I don't know. Like I said I was expecting it to fall and congest like it did.

 

Where did I go wrong?

 

The answer lies here......

 

.......Obviously I need to work harder on developing a detailed plan with rules etc. Paper trading has been fun......

 

You obviously have a lot of enthusiasm for this so I feel safe that I wont dampen it by saying you are putting the cart before the horse.

 

It sounds as if you have a few ideas how you want to trade (maybe a few too many?) I suspect you need to formalise them.

 

What are you trying to achieve by siming? If it is a better understanding of the market or trying to improve a setup shut the sim down it will likely delay your progress.

[jonbig04 10]

Not at all, criticism is encouraged on all fronts. As far as I'm concerned enthusiasm is not strong enough a word. When I think of enthusiasm I think of people who ski on the weekends or play soft ball twice a week. I think something as challenging as learning to trade requires all of your attention, pretty much all the time. Thats what Im trying to do anyways.

 

 

That's interesting what you say about the Sim slowing me down. Why do you say this?

 

thanks

[jonbig04 10]

Oh and I didn't trade today. I got a root canal this morning and was out of the house all day

[Head2k 10]

That's interesting what you say about the Sim slowing me down. Why do you say this?

I am joining jonbig with this question, because I trade on a sim, too. What should I do after I shut the sim down? Start for real or just watch? I mean for better market understanding.