Jonbig04's Log

[brownsfan019 17]

One piece of advice in Denver - AVOID the Denver Broncos. A terrible NFL franchise.

 

:rofl:

 

Oh yeah, gsx likes this game called hockey too but the rest of the US is not quite sure what he's talking about.

 

:o

[jonbig04 10]

Today was interesting. Yesterday's problems were still present, but they weren't as acute. I'm getting a handle on some of them...TAKE YOUR LOSSES is still the hardest one, but while I did get stopped out a few times, I took my losses a lot of the time. Not perfect yet, but its improving.

 

I'm doing some testing of my stop strategy right now. Seeing when they kick in and out etc. I'm also considering changing time tables a little bit.

Today wasn't very profitable, at all, but its an improvement over yesterday's fiasco.

 

results= +1.75 points

 

5 days trading +15 points

[brownsfan019 17]

results= +1.75 points

 

5 days trading +15 points

 

Is that gross or net?

[jonbig04 10]

Is that gross or net?[/quote

 

 

Just the up days minus the down days. I could be off by a point or two, but I think its right. It means diddly anyways. The way I feel right now I will probably lose 20 points tomorrow. :angry:

[brownsfan019 17]

Is that gross or net?[/quote

 

 

Just the up days minus the down days. I could be off by a point or two, but I think its right. It means diddly anyways. The way I feel right now I will probably lose 20 points tomorrow. :angry:

 

Actually you are forgetting an important component to trading...

 

GROSS POINTS

vs.

NET POINTS

 

With the amount of trades you are taking, you NEED to be running both numbers.

 

GROSS = Total points

NET = Total points - Total Commissions

 

In the end, NET is what counts as that is what hits your account.

 

I suggest you track both so you can see the impact of the amount of trades to your bottom line.

[jonbig04 10]

Actually you are forgetting an important component to trading...

 

GROSS POINTS

vs.

NET POINTS

 

With the amount of trades you are taking, you NEED to be running both numbers.

 

GROSS = Total points

NET = Total points - Total Commissions

 

In the end, NET is what counts as that is what hits your account.

 

I suggest you track both so you can see the impact of the amount of trades to your bottom line.

 

For sure. I will do that calculation tomorrow. I will also find out exactly what my broker is charging...or will be charging.

[brownsfan019 17]

I think you might be surprised at how much or little those trades eat into the end result P&L. My guess is that w/ the amount of trades we've seen already, a nice chunk of that gross profit may head on over to your broker's account. And they ALWAYS get paid before you.

[jonbig04 10]

I think you might be surprised at how much or little those trades eat into the end result P&L. My guess is that w/ the amount of trades we've seen already, a nice chunk of that gross profit may head on over to your broker's account. And they ALWAYS get paid before you.

 

Yea you are right. Just quick math in my head confirms that commish will take a large chunk. Im working on trading less though.

[brownsfan019 17]

Yea you are right. Just quick math in my head confirms that commish will take a large chunk. Im working on trading less though.

 

And that's the point of doing this - you need to know how much of your profits (or adding to losses) the broker commissions will add to this. Also include any other fees the broker may charge - namely platform fees. There are some platforms that take a fee per trade, per contract. I was running a platform that charged an additional fee per trade, per contract but was capped at $500/mo. Well, that $500 came straight out of my account w/o missing a beat.

 

It's just important to know what actual $$$ will hit your account b/c in the end, that's all that really matters.

[Guest forsearch]

There are some platforms that take a fee per trade, per contract. I was running a platform that charged an additional fee per trade, per contract but was capped at $500/mo. Well, that $500 came straight out of my account w/o missing a beat.

 

Ouch. Was this platform a third-party vendor or something cobbled together by the broker you were using at the time? For $500/mo, it had better be the bees knees and all that for ya, otherwise you're just spinning your wheels of platform fees, especially when starting out.

[smwinc 20]

Brownsfan makes a good point about the importance of commissions.

 

I too had a quick look at your chart - just be mindful of slippage you are likely to incur when trading live.

 

Best to estimate a $5 a roundie. Hopefully you will pay less, but it's a good amount to base averages off.

 

The notion of 20 trades a day being over-trading is not true, however it IS over-trading for your circumstances.

 

When you are trading as an independent & small size, you basically need to trade quite low. With a cost-ratio of something around 40% of a tick being paid in commission, you need to go for those bigger moves.

 

Once you get your size up, you can get a good commission as a percentage of tick value. When that happens, you can take advantage of the smaller moves.

 

Goodluck, keep us posted. When are you planning to go live?

[jonbig04 10]

My head was clearer today. I realized..I don't HAVE to trade. I was resolved not to take any trades if I couldn't see any.

 

I saw one trade and almost took it...but I wasn't sure. Turns it wouldn't have been a great move anyway. So I waited. I found one that I liked. I came within 4 ticks of being stopped out, but I was trying to watch to see if the situation I recognized was changing. It wasn't, so i held on. Thankfully that one trade made me 5.75 points. That's probably the only trade I'm going to take today.

 

I need to do some calculations and figure out what commish/fees is going to cost as was suggested.

 

As for going live, I'm not quite sure yet. Obviously I'm still learning...I want to go live when I am ready as opposed to when I want to...which was about 1 week ago haha.

 

All the advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

Jon

[atto 20]

...So I waited. I found one that I liked. I came within 4 ticks of being stopped out, but I was trying to watch to see if the situation I recognized was changing. It wasn't, so i held on. Thankfully that one trade made me 5.75 points. That's probably the only trade I'm going to take today

Wonderful (I bolded what I especially liked). Miss one, oh well, wait for another. I'm also seeing that you're holding on for longer. Good stuff, keep practicing.

[jonbig04 10]

Wonderful (I bolded what I especially liked). Miss one, oh well, wait for another. I'm also seeing that you're holding on for longer. Good stuff, keep practicing.

 

 

Thanks. I am holding for longer. I was looking at my last charts and very often I was getting out too early. I had my on one 4-10 point moves, but was only getting .5-1 points of profit. Then I would see the move that I missed and try to make up for what I missed by trading when I shouldnt have. I made my time frame (for my chart) longer and I moved my stop up a little (it was 3, but i changed it to 2.5) I should know by then that I am wrong and to get out.

 

I sold at a pretty good spot today, all that high volume at 10:53 turned out to be accumulation.

[atto 20]

I should know by then that I am wrong and to get out.

Re-read Phantom's rules #1 and #2. Get out when you're not proved right, not when you're proved wrong.

[jonbig04 10]

Re-read Phantom's rules #1 and #2. Get out when you're not proved right, not when you're proved wrong.

 

That makes a lot of sense..but I'm confused on how to apply it. For example, should I have gotten out at 10:35? It took me a couple minute to be proved right..so I guess what I'm asking is how long to we wait to be proved right?

[atto 20]

That makes a lot of sense..but I'm confused on how to apply it. For example, should I have gotten out at 10:35? It took me a couple minute to be proved right..so I guess what I'm asking is how long to we wait to be proved right?

That takes screen time, to be honest. It's also based on what kinds of moves you're targeting. However, let me give you an example: If you're trading a breakout, you need to see both price and volume confirming. If price is just slowly messing around, even in your direction, it's not really "breaking", is it? If you don't see new volume helping it out, do you think it has gas to keep moving?

 

Don't be afraid to get out for a couple ticks, and wait for what you want. I frequently enter a breakout, exit for a couple ticks, price pulls back to old res (now support), and I re-enter. Net to net, risking less and gaining a few free ticks.

[jonbig04 10]

That takes screen time, to be honest. It's also based on what kinds of moves you're targeting. However, let me give you an example: If you're trading a breakout, you need to see both price and volume confirming. If price is just slowly messing around, even in your direction, it's not really "breaking", is it? If you don't see new volume helping it out, do you think it has gas to keep moving?

 

Don't be afraid to get out for a couple ticks, and wait for what you want. I frequently enter a breakout, exit for a couple ticks, price pulls back to old res (now support), and I re-enter. Net to net, risking less and gaining a few free ticks.

 

I see what you mean. From what I was seeing today, price was messing around a bit, but declining volume told me that that demand was declining. The break happened just a few seconds later.

 

I like what you said about getting out for a few ticks and coming back in. That would have been the best move for me today as i would have made a few extra and been out for the slight up move at 10:38. I have considered doing that before. Now I will try to put it into action. Thanks again for the advice.

[jonbig04 10]

EDIT: declining volume in the context of all the other price/volume action*

[jonbig04 10]

So it looks like I've racked up around $330 in commissions so far. Ouch.

 

Depending on how many contracts I was trading, that takes a decent or insanely large chunk of profit.

 

Here's the break down depending on contracts traded minus commish:

 

Profit for week 1

 

Trading 1 contract= $80

Trading 2 contracts= $479

Trading 3 contracts= $910

Trading 4 contracts=$1,325

Trading 5 contracts=$1,740

 

This isn't entirely accurate as there are of course multiple tiers of commish costs, but it just to give me an idea.

 

 

Either way from now on my trading will be further limited to 10 trades per day...another great lesson learned from fake money trading.

 

This also gets me thinking about how many contracts I should trade whenever I do go live....only 1 is very expensive on a commission per tic basis.

 

I also need to find out what ninja costs per month, anyone happen to know of the top of their head?

 

Hope you all are having a fun week end. I will be at home with NQ charts...:missy:

[atto 20]

This also gets me thinking about how many contracts I should trade whenever I do go live....only 1 is very expensive on a commission per tic basis.

If I'm understanding you right, it's per contract, so it's all the same (and from your trading style, all "expensive").

I also need to find out what ninja costs per month, anyone happen to know of the top of their head?

$50-$60/month, depending on how much you prepay. You can also buy a lifetime license. Don't plan on using the Dynamic DOM unless you want to pay more, as well.

 

Also, do you use limit or market orders? If you use limit orders, you may not always get filled. If you use market orders, there *will* be slippage you probably aren't considering.

[Guest forsearch]

So it looks like I've racked up around $330 in commissions so far. Ouch.

 

Depending on how many contracts I was trading, that takes a decent or insanely large chunk of profit.

 

It means that you have to either:

 

A. find a decent broker with decent commission rates for the NQ

B. adjust your profit target to compensate for commission

C. or just grin and bear it as commish and fees are just a part of the game

 

One thing I like about OEC is that if you are a client they can load up your demo with your commission rates so that your testing will more closely approximate real-world testing, slippage notwithstanding.

[jonbig04 10]

If I'm understanding you right, it's per contract, so it's all the same (and from your trading style, all "expensive").

$50-$60/month, depending on how much you prepay. You can also buy a lifetime license. Don't plan on using the Dynamic DOM unless you want to pay more, as well.

 

Also, do you use limit or market orders? If you use limit orders, you may not always get filled. If you use market orders, there *will* be slippage you probably aren't considering.

 

 

Hmmm now I'm confused. The commish rates I looked at were per round turn. I assumed that meant that the costs were $4.30 per round turn if you trade 1, or 10 contracts....did I miss that up? Is it PER contract?

 

 

In sim I've been using limit orders. It seems to me that if you use limit you may not get filled, and if you use market there will be slippage. I suppose its up to me to decide the lesser of the two evils for my particular trading...

[jonbig04 10]

It means that you have to either:

 

A. find a decent broker with decent commission rates for the NQ

B. adjust your profit target to compensate for commission

C. or just grin and bear it as commish and fees are just a part of the game

 

One thing I like about OEC is that if you are a client they can load up your demo with your commission rates so that your testing will more closely approximate real-world testing, slippage notwithstanding.

 

I guess my answer is C. :\

[strtedat22 10]

Right. I wouldnt say I act impulsively ( I try not to), my trades are thought out in advance. Usually its something like "I will buy here if x happens along with y" etc, so its not "fly by the seat of my pants", but it is dependent on the price action of that particular chart, so I think back testing is out.

 

Pull up a time and sales window and filter only the 10+ contract. "It's your job to find the whales beneath these minnows that are in real control of the underlying trend." -anonymous Dont worry about the scalpers. jump in when the big boys get in. Look for handles, daily pivots, and previous days OHLC's.

 

strtedat22