Daytrading - Big Picture/Volume Analysis

[brownsfan019 17]

  EMC2Trader said:

BF,

 

You are misrepresenting a few things. First, youve drawn the conclusion that everyone will take every trade listed, and Ive gone into great detail about taking the listed track record and showing how to formulate realistic trading expectations, with the understanding that the track record enables you to exceed expectations as opposed to having to trade perfectly, which is a flaw for many trading programs out there.

 

Why wouldn't you execute every trade exactly listed in the track record? Perhaps you dont have time to trade all day. Perhaps after taking three small losses in a row, you lose confidence to pull the trigger on the next trade...etc...

 

So it is clear your only intention is to rip something down without even bothering to understand what it is all about, and on top of that not even to present all the facts as listed.

 

Second, I have no problem with your skepticism, but please dont extrapolate that to assume you know how I trade, or how others using this appraoch trade. You have no idea!

 

A valid criticism of the trading approach would come from someone who has tried the approach, and would tell you first hand that it isnt useful.

 

Fortuntely, I have only received the opposite feedback

 

So frankly, other than your advice to check everything out as closely as possible ahead of time, your other criticisms are entirely baseless, especially because I go out of my way to present the realistic side of trading when it comes to performance, track records, discipline, following a trading plan, trading goals, etc. which of course you convienently choose not to recognize.

 

Finally, heres what I find interesting...I noticed you wrote the following in an earlier post about someone who had a trading approach:

 

"So maybe if this new person would like to contribute to the forum and talk about what they've learned, how they use it, etc. etc. it might hold something."

 

So here I am doing just that, discussing the importance I place on the bigger picture and volume, and you still find the need to critcize, so theres obviously a lot more hypocracy on your end, than on mine....

 

But Im not here to argue any more about this. If you feel the need to continue to attack then fine, just so long as Ive made it clear you are doing so without any facts whatsoever...

 

 

Question to our kind vendor - do YOU take all of YOUR trades?

 

If you do, no need to sell the key for 500 bucks. You should EASILY have made over $500k by now w/ those numbers.

 

But, of course you are not doing that, so then it's time to prey on people that don't know better and charge them a whole 500 bucks for that special key.

 

If the course is as good as you say it is, then share it with TL. This forum after all is a forum of GIVING - see DB's area for a great example of this. While he has a book for sale at a very nominal fee, there is a ton of information provided there.

 

Or if that will not work, provide a "TL" discount and like DB, sell it for a under $100 so more can take part and actually give it a test. If you do that, I personally will purchase it out of good faith.

 

So let TL put the system to the test and maybe you can help out some guys that really need it and can't afford the 500 bucks right now - you know, all in the spirit of TL and bettering each other.

 

We can put the track record to rest and move forward if you think you can do that here in the TL community.

[BlowFish 10]

  DbPhoenix said:

Actually, it wouldn't, and that's my point. This sort of calculated misrepresentation has no place on TL, and discussion of the volume indicator can go on without any reference to it.

 

OK, fair enough, perhaps it was not 'plain' (it was to me, but I looked further than the home page) however that is still no excuse to attribute claims that where not made.

 

Mind you it never ceases to amaze me peoples poor comprehension skills in general, they see what they want to see. (and that's not directed at any of the protagonists in this debate btw). A pet peeve of mine are logical fallacies (unless I use them myself ;-)) this smacked of argumentum ad hominem (agan just IMO). I.e attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself.

 

I am still interested in why some think it is OK for people like JR to post (who also has hypothetical results on his site and is clearly a vendor with a capital V). I guess the heart of the matter is people believe the figures to be falsified in some way? Of course that is likely because they mis understand what they represent.

 

Anyway I apologise for perpetuating this particular debate when we are all in agreement it has no place here. (in my defence I didn't start it!) It's fun to lock horns now and then (especially with Brown!):fight::beer:

 

I hope a mod will clean this up as there are some interesting ideas (to me at least) in the thread.

[brownsfan019 17]

  BlowFish said:

It's fun to lock horns now and then (especially with Brown!):fight::beer:

 

:cheers:

 

I agree BF.

[DbPhoenix 42]

  BlowFish said:

 

I am still interested in why some think it is OK for people like JR to post (who also has hypothetical results on his site and is clearly a vendor with a capital V). I guess the heart of the matter is people believe the figures to be falsified in some way? Of course that is likely because they mis understand what they represent.

 

Perhaps it's a matter of creds. I'm not a fan of JR by any means, but I'm not about to squawk about a post or two, any more than I'd squawk about posts from LBR.

 

But so many new traders (not referring to anyone in particular) "discover" what's already known by most of those with more experience, add a little of their own jargon, then decide to share their epiphanies for money. This is in stark contrast to those who've been around the block more than a few times and give away an enormous amount of information for nothing (Steenbarger, for example). JR has also given away a great deal for nothing, and a trader with intelligence ought to be able to put together the rest of it by himself.

[BlowFish 10]

  DbPhoenix said:

Perhaps it's a matter of creds. I'm not a fan of JR by any means, but I'm not about to squawk about a post or two, any more than I'd squawk about posts from LBR.

 

But so many new traders (not referring to anyone in particular) "discover" what's already known by most of those with more experience, add a little of their own jargon, then decide to share their epiphanies for money. This is in stark contrast to those who've been around the block more than a few times and give away an enormous amount of information for nothing (Steenbarger, for example). JR has also given away a great deal for nothing, and a trader with intelligence ought to be able to put together the rest of it by himself.

 

Yes fair comment. When starting out you could do a lot worse than the law of charts as an intro to PA. It is a decent enough framework to build from and assuredly better than starting with a bunch of oscillators and squiggles. Actually I mentored with Joe must have been <blush> about 10 years ago. I am embarrassed to admit its probablly easier to list the courses, seminars and books I don't have. :/ You can see why I am an easy mark for the hucksters! Still at least I am well qualified to talk about trading products and services! hehe.

 

Your correct about sharing epiphanies too, there's not that much new in trading (if you have as much stuff on your shelves as I do!) For example, Carter and Steners (who seem to be 'tolerated' vendors) shamelessly re-package indicators that are in the public domain and sell them for 100's of $$$'s a pop. Personally I find that at best morally dubious and for me it calls into question their whole raison d'etre. It amazes me they are still considered vendors of the good kind by many.

[Marsupilami 10]

  EMC2Trader said:

Marsup....As you may have noted, I only show up here to discuss views on the market that some may find of interest, and Im not here claiming to "control the ES" ..and Im not here claiming to have cracked the code of the ES...." Where have I ever mentioned or implied that. and why do you assume thats the case?

 

Hello EMC2,

making anything in the range of 300 points/ 1 ES per month puts you in the league of the best traders on this globe,this is what I'm saying. Even if your posted "potential trades" are just that, i.e. theoretically possible trade setups, your methods would still be unbelievably good. I'm sure there are enough traders who would find ways to take every possible trade according to your method, even if that meant that they would have to get a divorce, live on delivered Pizza and find a medical solution to prevent having to go the bathroom during trading hours. With these kind of results possible...heck, I think I would do it, too.

Unfortunately, all this seems to good to be true.

  EMC2Trader said:

 

I also truly have no problem if you doubt everything I am saying here, or find this information meaningless for you--Im sure youve head me say that everyone has a right to view anything however they like, but since you and others are manking many assumptions I do have one thing I am curious about:

 

If I list a track record of trades every day (the exact time, the entry and exit, for each trade etc.)which includes as many losers as winners, that falls in place mechanically the same way everyday from 8:30-3:15 according to the same set of rules over and over again, do you think Im just making these trades up out of thin air?

There are so many vendors with time stamped trades posted on their websites showing good results which are not that great once you look closer, so your "track record" does not necessarily improve your credibility imho. That's just the way it is.

 

  EMC2Trader said:

I guess Im just really curious if thats the perception? Do you think Im making them up after the fact, and that you could never take any of these trades in real time?

I'm very sceptical about the track record, yes. Like you say, one has to do their DD, and this cannot be achieved by looking at your website alone.

  EMC2Trader said:

I guess I wonder if a specific listing of every single trade holds any more value than the host of all these fancy videos I see that highlight a trade of the day, or how all the indicators line up beautifully for a trade here and there, etc.....

I will admit, listing every trade is much better than only showing one trade of the day that went really well, but in the end, even a detailed track record isn't worth much if there is no proof. This can only come through reputable satisfied customers or through posting trades live in a room with clear entries and exits for some time.

[EMC2Trader 10]

  atto said:

Exactly. I like the idea, so let's keep discussion kosher. I'd like to see more live examples if you could, EMC2, as well.

 

Also, feel free to stop by the TL chat room (link is above) during market hours. I'd love to hear what you're seeing real time.

 

 

Just for the record, I have tried to go to the chat room many times today, and almost everytime it locks up shortly after I get in there......Does TL really have a chat room that just doesnt work with IE?