Is There an FX Broker That Has a DOM Like Futures?

[brownsfan019 17]

I didn't want to put this in the other post and have it get lost.

 

Is anyone aware of an FX broker that offers a DOM like what you see in futures? I'm looking for a price ladder function that a standard futures DOM offers.

 

Thanks!

[Guest forsearch]

Good question. I know at one point OEC was offering spot FX using their same OEC Trader platform, but this was over 2 years ago, and has since been discontinued.

 

That being said, NinjaTrader is available for use with FX brokers. Here's a link with some more info:

 

http://www.ninjatrader.com/webnew/events_onlinetrading_Forex.htm

 

They should have a list of participating brokers available somewhere on their site.

 

-fs

[brownsfan019 17]

Nice - Ninja would be perfect as I understand how it works.

 

Now... looking for a broker that won't stiff you too much... LOL

 

Not sure I am going to go there, but wanted to see what was out there.

[atto 20]

Is there a reason you're favoring spot forex as compared to currency futures?

 

I used to have an article (I can try to find it if you want) going over advantages and disadvantages of both. The futures beat forex in almost every area, from comissions, to spread, to brokers, etc (forex has lower entry costs and can trade exotics).

[brownsfan019 17]

Is there a reason you're favoring spot forex as compared to currency futures?

 

I used to have an article (I can try to find it if you want) going over advantages and disadvantages of both. The futures beat forex in almost every area, from comissions, to spread, to brokers, etc (forex has lower entry costs and can trade exotics).

 

Actually atto the volume on the CME futures has me looking elsewhere. I'm a futures trader through and through, so I may just end up back at the CME anyways.

[Guest forsearch]

I'm surprised you would look to the wild wild west of spot FX anyway, BF. Stick with what you know well - futures.

 

The six currency futures with significant daily volume (and action) are:

 

Euro (6E), Yen (6J), Pound (6B), Swiss (6S), Aussie (6A), Loonie (6C)

[brownsfan019 17]

I'm surprised you would look to the wild wild west of spot FX anyway, BF. Stick with what you know well - futures.

 

The six currency futures with significant daily volume (and action) are:

 

Euro (6E), Yen (6J), Pound (6B), Swiss (6S), Aussie (6A), Loonie (6C)

 

To me it seems like the 6E is the only real option when I pull up a DOM. Guess I am too used to the ES.

[BlowFish 10]

MBT (who bought EFX) offer 'real' spot FX (rather than bucket shop) and IB do now as well (if I understand there blurb correctly). They have an order book DOM type deal.

[Guest forsearch]

MBT (who bought EFX) offer 'real' spot FX (rather than bucket shop) and IB do now as well (if I understand there blurb correctly). They have an order book DOM type deal.

 

And they should support Ninjatrader too.

[mister ed 10]

If a spot FX broker was showing a DOM then it would be limited to the orders passing through that one broker and would not include the orders being input into all the other spot FX brokers. So the DOM with any one spot broker would be a sample only, and would not be complete, like you would see on a futures market DOM. Just the nature of the FX market, where it is not centralised like futures.

[BlowFish 10]

Yes, I think of it as beeing like the Nasdaq where you have a network of networks. It's a ECN type setup. I understand that MBT have 'good access' to these Interbank networks. Interactive Brokers don't seem to be too bad with there "IdealPro" set up. Thats from casual observation the last few weeks.

 

Cheers.

[GammaJammer 10]

Yes, I think of it as beeing like the Nasdaq where you have a network of networks. It's a ECN type setup. I understand that MBT have 'good access' to these Interbank networks. Interactive Brokers don't seem to be too bad with there "IdealPro" set up. Thats from casual observation the last few weeks.

 

Cheers.

 

 

I doubt MBT have 'good access to these interbank networks' as that isn't even a hugely meaningful sentence to be honest. I had a look at their website and they are pretty opaque as to where there liquidity is sourced. I have a feeling it's a network of streamed support pricing (maybe via a hidden currenex interface or something) with a smattering of real interest. But I could be wrong on that of course.

 

If I'm right though, it means it will function more like an SB booky than you would maybe wish.

 

Comission seems pretty high too, especially if I'm right about the nature of their platform

 

GJ

[BlowFish 10]

Guess I should have stuck to calling them ECN's, just trying to be more descriptive. Does Interbank liquidity make more sense? You have to be so carefull talking to these FX guys ;-) EFX (who MBT bought) used to claim that they where connected to several of the major ECN's and I believe they use to list them. So you may be wrong on that . Seems things have become opaque again on the MBT and EFX websites so who knows? Could be I mis remembered what was on EFX's website which is also just as likely.

 

To me the main advantages of 'real access' is not so much the liquidity but 'transparent' pricing and the fact that the 'broker' is not the counter party with complete access to the order book. Those two combined are an opportunity for conning the client that must be irresistible. As I don.t trade FX its more academic.

 

I will email IB and see if I can find out a bit more about there setup.

[GammaJammer 10]

Good luck - they may be a genuine ECN aggregator for all I know, but even if they are, it doesn't mean that the prices they / the end user can see from a given ECN are necessarily genuine interest. The big banks all stream support prices to the major ecns, and those support prices are by their nature algorithmically generated. So if a bank gets hit on their price on one ecn they may well back away from that price on others. So it can on occasion all be a bit 'smoke and mirrors' when you're looking at this type of thing. Especially if this support pricing is all you are getting through currenex. I know there are a few options for what to pass on etc.

 

But it may still make more sense than an SB booky - at least the bank prices are arbable by the larger AI players, so they should usually stay reasonably neutral. Just don't think it's the holy grail because few things ever are.....

 

GJ

Edited July 15, 2008 by GammaJammer

[BlowFish 10]

I have to say even in a centralised market (like Liffe or Eurex) unravelling what's going on from the order book is (for me) as often as not an exercise in futility. In a distributed environment where furthermore you don't get to see all the participants orders....well good luck with that too.

 

As I mention (often) I don't trade FX and the 'wild west' loosely regulated nature (for a retail trader) is once of the reasons. DMA for retail traders seems like its in it's infancy but it seems like its a move in the right direction.

 

So if I should shoot out an email to Interactive brokers is asking where they get there liquidity and whether the prices are completely transparent a good opener?

 

Cheers.

[GammaJammer 10]

Well I would just ask them where the pricing comes from, and if it's downstream from an ecn, whether it's 100% support pricing or some genuine interest?

 

Wouldn't ask them 'is it transparent?' because frankly what are they gonna say? And what does that question even mean?

 

It's not rocket science this stuff, but it does kind of require a little bit of market knowledge that isn't generally available to retail players, however sophisticated. I try and help where I can but I'm pretty busy with various bits and pieces and can't always guarantee I have the time to write chapter and verse on it. Sorry.

 

GJ

[BlowFish 10]

Always appreciate your input GJ - thanks- its probably worth saving up the 'tricky' questions rather wasting your time on this "fluff".

 

By transparent I mean that the prices are not 'interfered with' in any way, so like light passing through a transparent medium. Basically the quotes they get are passed on to me without skewing them in price or time. Something that the bucket shops do if it suits there purpose.

 

Talking of messing with prices I found this made me :shocked: and . MT4 is a very common platform amongst the bucket shops.

 

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=70582

 

Basically a software agent to ensure you get the worse price possible.

[trader1272 10]

You may find this link of interest. Some excellent information there. If you choose the spot forex route you will find no one broker will meet your needs and therefore its best to have choice based on your trading requirements ie funding/pairs/leverage/charting etc.

 

Just my opinion. Hope it helps

 

http://www.pfxglobal.com/basic-forex/9.-forex-futures-vs.-spot-forex-accounts-2.html

[GammaJammer 10]

Don't even have to open it to know what it is - have seen before. But on the flipside of the coin, these boards are full of people happy to admit they are 'scalpers' which translates in FX as latency arbers, trying to hit wrong prices. So I have little sympathy to be honest. Just better to deal with the situation as it actually is.

 

My $0.02

 

GJ

[trader1272 10]

Im sure your already aware of this data but for anyone who wants to compare net capital of brokers heres the link at cftc for June. Data is produced monthly.

 

http://www.cftc.gov/marketreports/financialdataforfcms/index.htm

[ninjatrader 10]

NinjaTrader currently supports the following for FX -

 

GAIN Capital/FX Pro - Both their fixed and fractional spread pricing options

MBT FX

Interactive Brokers

 

HotSpot through Zen-Fire coming shortly.

 

Our DOM interface is supported for all but you have to consider how practical it may be for your style of trading.

 

MBT and GAIN fractional prices are quoted in 1/10 pips thus if you had 40 price rows --> You would really be only displaying 4 total pips on a DOM screen.

 

IB and HotSpot quote in 1/2 pips so you would get 20 total pips on the screen with 40 price rows

 

GAIN Fixed spread is quoted in pips so you would get 40 total pips displayed

 

Ray

[daedalus 10]

Tradestation does (they clear through Gain and use gain for spread)

[snackly 10]

Actually atto the volume on the CME futures has me looking elsewhere. I'm a futures trader through and through, so I may just end up back at the CME anyways.

 

I have heard it said (and perhaps someone with experience can verify since I too am looking to decide between FX and FX Futures) that the CME's liquidity can effectively be better than spot FX for the simple reason that there is much less slippage. If slippage is rampant in FX (which depends largely on your broker but it exists even on ECNs from my understanding), then the so called great liquidity is a bit of a misnomer.

 

The liquidity is in terms of total $ traded across all OTC points in FX makes it the most liquid. But that should probably not be confused with the real liquidity at any given moment.

 

I believe that if the size of your orders are < $1M that the liquidity on the CME for FX Futures should be equal or better to spot FX, provided you are trading during RTH.

 

Can someone with more experience confirm? I am at this point repeating what I've been told by half a dozen other folks and I too am looking to find a better understanding of this.

[snackly 10]

Btw, I have an IB IDEALPRO account at the moment although I have yet to do anything but paper trade.

 

Have you checked out ButtonTrader? It's a DOM-like interface made for IB and does side by side FX and FXFutures. Or anything for that matter.

[snackly 10]

Guess I should have stuck to calling them ECN's, just trying to be more descriptive. Does Interbank liquidity make more sense? You have to be so carefull talking to these FX guys ;-) EFX (who MBT bought) used to claim that they where connected to several of the major ECN's and I believe they use to list them. So you may be wrong on that . Seems things have become opaque again on the MBT and EFX websites so who knows? Could be I mis remembered what was on EFX's website which is also just as likely.

 

To me the main advantages of 'real access' is not so much the liquidity but 'transparent' pricing and the fact that the 'broker' is not the counter party with complete access to the order book. Those two combined are an opportunity for conning the client that must be irresistible. As I don.t trade FX its more academic.

 

I will email IB and see if I can find out a bit more about there setup.

 

You need to read their agreement more closely. They reserve the right to take the other end of your trade and make markets. They are therefore not an ECN. Call them and ask them, they will admit it if you ask direct questions. They use an ECN-like platform, but that's as far as the comparison goes. As for liquidity, they will take the other side of your trade when their liquidity providers won't/can't. That should tell you how good their liquidity really is.

 

I would not trade spot FX with them.

 

The only places I would trade spot FX with are Interactive Brokers IDEALPRO, HotSpot FXr, and maybe DukasCopy, which requires a $100k deposit and is based in Switzerland, where your money would reside. I am not so sure I trust DukasCopy yet.