Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

bertg

May 19, 2008; 1:45pm ET Crash

Recommended Posts

Hi, folks,

 

Market analysis seems to be the appropriate forum for this.

 

My question to all of you: what happened today at 1:45pm ET that caused the market to crash? At 1pm ET there were two reports on the calendar: 3- and 6-month bill reports, but the crash started around 1:40-1:45. I didn't see any volume spikes like I see sometimes before a big move.

 

How can all markets crash like that at the same time?

 

Thank you,

Bert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WASHINGTON, May 19 (Reuters) - A few Federal Reserve policy-makers have begun talking openly about the need to raise interest rates, but it appears more likely the U.S. central bank will stay on hold until early 2009. (1:34 EDT) more...

 

In other words, the Fed may be done lowering rates. You can see what the reaction was, though the recovery off the lows was fairly strong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The market dropped b/c the charts were screaming a drop was coming. ;)
Yep, a little birdie told me to look for 1424's on the way down (POC of the up swing) with possible support around 1428-29s (VAH of the up swing). News just acts as the catalyst.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi, folks,

 

Market analysis seems to be the appropriate forum for this.

 

My question to all of you: what happened today at 1:45pm ET that caused the market to crash? At 1pm ET there were two reports on the calendar: 3- and 6-month bill reports, but the crash started around 1:40-1:45. I didn't see any volume spikes like I see sometimes before a big move.

 

How can all markets crash like that at the same time?

 

Thank you,

Bert

 

Crash:confused:??? A 19.25 range in the ES is a crash? Dont think so, nothing out of the ordinary today.

 

This is a crash:

14cba4w.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Crash:confused:??? A 19.25 range in the ES is a crash? Dont think so, nothing out of the ordinary today.
Exactly, we have at least a few more months before that happens. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yep, a little birdie told me to look for 1424's on the way down (POC of the up swing) with possible support around 1428-29s (VAH of the up swing). News just acts as the catalyst.

 

Hlm,

what software do you use that you can split vpoc and vvah /vval at swing points? I trade somewhat similar but a little more crudely I suppose. Because es opened above Fridays vah(1423.25) and held it then became todays val. That would make Friday's vpoc(1420.75) an unfair low.1424.25 becomes as you said the vpoc and 1429.25 becomes the vah. Also 1436.75 is now an unfair high.Thats how tomorrow setups for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest forsearch

Just a normal retracement from the highs. Nothing special here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They've been speculating the fed is done raising interest rates for weeks now. I suspect that the tinder was dry, there was a lot of it, and then a spark came... or you could just call it a snowball.

A big hint was an attempt higher that turned into a bearish engulfing pattern on the 10 minute chart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you to those with useful answers.

 

I don't trade much because I am in the learning stages. I am taking the advice of a member here and just spend time every night watching market replay data without any indicators but volume, trying to see what price does (and also looking for patterns like butterflies and wolfe waves, which is just plain fun for me). No sim trades, just watching.

 

I just happened to see the "crash" on my lunch break at work and thought I'd ask the experienced traders here what they think happened.

 

Regards,

Bert

Edited by mister ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest forsearch
Thank you to those with useful answers.

 

I don't trade much because I am in the learning stages. I am taking the advice of a member here and just spend time every night watching market replay data without any indicators but volume, trying to see what price does (and also looking for patterns like butterflies and wolfe waves, which is just plain fun for me). No sim trades, just watching.

 

I just happened to see the "crash" on my lunch break at work and thought I'd ask the experienced traders here what they think happened.

Regards,

Bert

 

Probably because it wasn't a "crash" to begin with. But keep on reading and watching those charts. You'll get it eventually.

Edited by mister ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what software do you use that you can split vpoc and vvah /vval at swing points?
To my knowledge there is no software out there that automatically does this...or even allows you to do this manually in an efficient way. I have spent the last several months designing and programming software to fit my specific needs.

 

I just happened to see the "crash" on my lunch break at work and thought I'd ask the experienced traders here what they think happened.
I'll try to add a helpful comment. To see where others are coming from, I suggest opening up a large tick bar chart (eg 2500 ticks) of the ES over the last 6 days (all hours). This will allow you to see the up and down waves more clearly. The last move down had more pressure because the next higher time frame has possibly finished it's up swing. The move was very technical in nature. Potential downside area would be 1405-1406. However, price is currently sitting within a decision/consolidation area. Edited by mister ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I apologize to the OP if my short but succinct previous answer did not provide an adequate reply that he was looking for.

 

Suffice to say this - as a candlestick trader, there were PLENTY of reversal signals staring you in the face (if you know what to look for). So while you are looking for waves and whatever else, a simple candlestick analysis that would take about 5 seconds accomplished the same thing for me.

 

====================

 

With that being said (I know, it was a smart ass reply) trading is one of the most time consuming and labor intensive things you can possibly do in your spare time. While there were candlestick reversal signals that met my criteria for a trade, it was not and is not about playing find a shape (which many new to candles do).

 

Hopefully this gives a little more info for you to work on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi, folks,

 

Market analysis seems to be the appropriate forum for this.

 

My question to all of you: what happened today at 1:45pm ET that caused the market to crash? At 1pm ET there were two reports on the calendar: 3- and 6-month bill reports, but the crash started around 1:40-1:45. I didn't see any volume spikes like I see sometimes before a big move.

 

How can all markets crash like that at the same time?

 

Thank you,

Bert

 

Imo charts tell it all. Please see below a composite profile of the ES starting from 2008 till present.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=6547&stc=1&d=1211254713

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=6548&stc=1&d=1211254713

 

Yesterdays high at 1441 was pretty much the top of the distribution. It will fail on the first attempt majority of the time it reaches levels like that. Check the daily charts below also.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=6549&stc=1&d=1211255136

 

So I wouldnt call it a crash. More like a significant point of resistance.

5aa70e6559bfb_ESComposite.thumb.png.b901708ab48b6b13e42264bb9cf24edf.png

5aa70e65623e7_ESComposite2.thumb.png.13eaa026bc895bad7ea0e5f835b98811.png

5aa70e656c6e2_ESResistance.thumb.png.61db3c9262e8ec6e5380840784843f3b.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With that being said trading is one of the most time consuming and labor intensive things you can possibly do in your spare time.

 

Spare time? How I envy you. :\

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, here is some candlestick analysis. In the attached5-min chart, it shows that if you missed the first move down yesterday, there was a wide range red candle where the top of the candle created massive resistance as indicated by the yellow horizontal line. Subsequently the market had big trouble going above it, then you could have shorted into the bear flag that is being formed.

05-19-2008-h.png.ebee57f5f7d7917d4b5e6cb622ed0f72.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I apologize to the OP if my short but succinct previous answer did not provide an adequate reply that he was looking for.

 

Suffice to say this - as a candlestick trader, there were PLENTY of reversal signals staring you in the face (if you know what to look for). So while you are looking for waves and whatever else, a simple candlestick analysis that would take about 5 seconds accomplished the same thing for me.

 

 

Could you post a chart of some of these signals?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Imo charts tell it all. Please see below a composite profile of the ES starting from 2008 till present.

So I wouldnt call it a crash. More like a significant point of resistance.

 

It also hit the value area of the upper range.

5aa70e65dc45a_SP500Value.thumb.png.7c8d1c2250ef280b648e40b1ebe3802b.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you to those with useful answers.

 

I don't trade much because I am in the learning stages. I am taking the advice of a member here and just spend time every night watching market replay data without any indicators but volume, trying to see what price does (and also looking for patterns like butterflies and wolfe waves, which is just plain fun for me). No sim trades, just watching.

 

I just happened to see the "crash" on my lunch break at work and thought I'd ask the experienced traders here what they think happened.

 

Regards,

Bert

 

Bert, your question appears to have been interpreted two different ways: (1) why did price fall and (2) why did price fall at that particular time. These charts are informative and useful and helpful, but in terms of trading the move, perhaps the best you could have hoped for was to find a profitable way of entering the move, if you happened to be there at the time.

 

The averages were all at resistance of one form or another, at different levels. They were all due to fall at some time or other for some distance or other. However, absent a catalyst of some sort (in this case, most likely the comments from Fed officials), any or all of them could have simply drifted all afternoon, then plunged on the PPI data this morning. When all the major averages fall at the same time and in more or less the same way, you can assume that there is something going on outside the usual support/resistance dynamic. Noting it is important if you're studying price movement. Trading it is something else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I have posted yesterday in the Live Trade section: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/130/live-trades-3845-17.html

 

and brought attention to the fact we were very close to the 200-day moving average of the S&P 500, a yardstick widely watched by the institutions. As you can see from the attached chart, we have problem closing significantly above it. If you do your homework every night, you would expect a tug of war around the 200ma and not be surprise by the price action yesterday.

05-19-2008-j.png.3448f38adc5f1624d76104f6bc7656c3.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • AMZN Amazon stock, nice buying at the 187.26 triple+ support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?AMZN
    • DELL Dell Technologies stock, good day moving higher off the 90.99 double support area, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?DELL
    • MCK Mckesson stock, nice trend and continuation breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?MCK
    • lmfx just officially launched their own LMGX token, Im planning to grab a couple of hundred and maybe have the option to stake them. 
    • Date: 2nd April 2025.   Market on Edge: Tariff Announcement and Volatility Ahead!   The US economic and employment data continues to deteriorate with the job vacancies figures dropping to a 5-month low. In addition to this, the IMS Manufacturing PMI also fell below expectations. However, both the US Dollar and Gold declined simultaneously following the release of the two figures, an uncommon occurrence in the market. Traders expect a key factor to be today’s ‘liberation day’ where the US will impose tariffs on imports. USDJPY - Traders Await Tariff Confirmation! Traders looking to determine how the USDJPY will look today will find it difficult to determine until the US confirms its tariff plan. Today is the day when Trump previously stated he would finalize and announce his tariff plan. The administration has not yet released the policy, but investors expect it to be the most expansionary in a century. President Trump is due to speak at 20:00 GMT. On HFM's Calendar the speech is stated as "US Liberation Day Tariff Announcement". Currently, analysts are expecting Trump’s Tariff Plan to impose tariffs on the EU, chips and pharmaceuticals later today as well as reciprocal tariffs. Economists have a good idea of how these tariffs may take effect, but reciprocal tariffs are still unspecified. In addition to this, 25% tariffs on the car industry will start tomorrow. The tariffs on the foreign cars industry are a factor which will particularly impact Japan. Although, traders should note that this is what is expected and is not yet finalised. Last week, President Trump stated that he would implement retaliatory tariffs but allow exemptions for certain US trade partners. Treasury Secretary Mr Bessent and National Economic Council Director Mr Hassett suggested that the restrictions would primarily target 15 countries responsible for the bulk of the US trade deficit. However, yesterday, Trump contradicted these statements, asserting that additional duties would be imposed on any country that has implemented similar measures against US products. The day’s volatility will depend on which route the US administration takes. The harshness of the policy will influence both the Japanese Yen as well as the US Dollar.   USDJPY 5-Minute Chart   US Economic and Employment Data The JOLT Job Vacancies figure fell below expectations and is lower than the previous month’s figure. The JOLT Job Vacancies read 7.57 million whereas the average of the past 6 months is 7.78 million. The ISM Manufacturing Index also fell below the key level of 50.00 and was 5 points lower than what analysts were expecting. The data is negative for the US Dollar, particularly as the latest release applies more pressure on the Federal Reserve to cut interest rates. However, this is unlikely to happen if the trade policy ignites higher and stickier inflation. In the Bank of Japan’s Governor's latest speech, Mr Ueda said that the tariffs are likely to trigger higher inflation. USDJPY Technical Analysis Currently, the Japanese Yen Index is the worst performing of the day while the US Dollar Index is more or less unchanged. However, this is something traders will continue to monitor as the EU session starts. In the 2-hour timeframe, the USDJPY is trading at the neutral level below the 75-bar EMA and 100-bar SMA. The RSI and MACD is also at the neutral level meaning traders should be open to price movements in either direction. On the smaller timeframes, such as the 5-minute timeframe, there is a slight bias towards a bullish outcome. However, this is only likely if the latest bearish swing does not drop below the 200-Bar SMA.     The key resistant level can be seen at 150.262 and the support level at 149.115. Breakout levels are at 149.988 and 149.674. Key Takeaway Points: Job vacancies hit a five-month low, and the ISM Manufacturing PMI missed expectations, adding pressure on the Federal Reserve regarding interest rate decisions. Traders await confirmation on Trump’s tariff policy, which is expected to impact the EU, chips, pharmaceuticals, and foreign car industries. The severity of the tariffs will influence both the JPY and the USD, with traders waiting for final policy details. The Japanese Yen Index is the worst index of the day while the US Dollar Index is unchanged. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.