All You Need... is a Chart

[erierambler 10]

 

But regardless of the integrity of the fiction, it remains a fiction, and when the rubber meets the road, these actors are nowhere to be found. But that's one of the elements of anonymous forums and there's nothing that can be done about it other than to become and remain forever skeptical.

 

Ma and Pa Kettle shows how to do some calculating

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNA1D1DS5Fg

 

erie

[86834 10]

A 5min bar chart of intraday S/R levels that consistently develop and provide consistent solid trades when in employing trading retests. (the full size chart on the first screen on the left)

 

For my previous post.

[Hlm 10]

I've mentioned this before around the forum - one of the greatest misconceptions in trading is people believe they will build a strategy, and slowly scale up their size until they are doing 1,5,10,20,50,100,500, etc lots in their chosen market.

 

In reality, it just doesn't happen. I have not met one person who trades like that - builds their size to say 100 S&P and trades one-dimensionally with their full-size.

To be honest I am pretty surprised that you haven't met any in person. However, with you being a prop person it kind of makes sense. You are surrounded by people that trade that way so one would naturally go down that route. If one does not fit that style they probably wouldn't last long in such an environment. In other words, ones view can be very misleading when they are surrounded by like minded individuals. It turns into a club and outsiders are looked at as always being wrong. One should also note that commissions are a large part of a proprietary firms business model.

 

Now going back to the original topic of this thread. Yes, it's common knowledge that lots of money is flowing around news announcements. But the question is, do you need anything that is not in a chart to make money. The answer is an obvious no to me. Going back to the whole news event concept...there is no difference. However, when one is playing smaller intraday setups they should most likely wait until after the first spike to jump back in because you have larger time frames stepping in and making their moves. I personally do not look to enter right before or on a news release unless it's a larger time frame setup. But again, everything is in the chart. Now do I miss many of the news spikes, of course. But if you look at the amount I missed compared to what is available for the taking throughout the day, it's so tiny in comparison...especially in today's market. The FOMC's have even seemed tame compared to many of the intraday swings over the last year. Remember, very few make it in this profession. Just because one person can't do something doesn't mean another can't and vice versa.

[86834 10]

A 1 hour chart of december. Same craic..... as you can see these levels form very well and are very consistent.

 

As i've said before, in my opinion european markets (exlcude the dax because i think it can be a bit too crazy) are very good markets to trade technically.

 

It's very simple stuff, and it's very very consistent. So if you're a pure tech jocky then check europe out.

[86834 10]

Just because one person can't do something doesn't mean another can't and vice versa.

 

 

Neuro-linguistic programming

[Hlm 10]

Neuro-linguistic programming

That's so 1980's.

[smwinc 20]

Now going back to the original topic of this thread. Yes, it's common knowledge that lots of money is flowing around news announcements. But the question is, do you need anything that is not in a chart to make money. The answer is an obvious no to me. Going back to the whole news event concept...there is no difference.

 

Hlm how you doing . .

 

I'm not in the business of being right or wrong, or to be a mentor to new traders, etc etc. Exactly as I just said, I'm just saying my experiences.

 

Aside from the mental aspect of using size, and working out the psychological reasons of when and why you should use large size, there are practical reasons to think about.

 

When you trade large size, you have an impact on the market you are trading. It is that simple. It has become worse since the markets have thinned out a lot lately.

 

The other main reason traders don't scale their size up in a linear fashion is because of the problems you face.

 

In the eurostoxx, stacks of traders used to sit there with 100 - 200 lots on every few prices - the second they were hit they would place an opposing order 1 tick up/down to take a tick, just making money on the 'two way' price action. Over time the market started to REACT to this trading style. Rather than bounce off the prices and flick back and forth bid/offer/bid/offer, traders clip the entire 200+ bid and send it 200 offer, knowing that someone out there is now probably 200 long offside. They end up covering, pushing the market down another price, often into the take profit order of the guy who clipped the bid and sent it offered in the first place.

 

The market changes & reacts to large size orders. Liquidity is becoming more and more of a valuable commodity. For a large trader, you need "something" to clip into.

 

In plenty of markets, the traders are well aware of that. Traders get greedy and see a 300 lot offer at the high. Someone out there is thinking "If I clip that the market will surely bust the high and go a few ticks, letting me take a few ticks profit on 300 lots".

 

Sounds great. What happens most of the time these days is algorythms are in place that basically program two scenario's, one being: "if greater than or equal to 50% of my offer order of 300 lots is taken, sell 10 x 30 lots at market as fast as possible."

 

So me the trader clips 200 out of the 300 lot, and the moment I clip it, someone furiously sells the market down a few ticks. Now every man and his dog knows I'm 200 long at the high and 2 ticks offside - the market will then push down and try and squeeze me out.

 

Again - your action has CAUSED the market movement. Everyone looking at the chart goes "oh, double top, easy sell". Yes, it is an easy sell now, because your selling it down to get me who is 200 long out.

 

The second scenario often writen into the algo is "OR if greater than or equal to 50% of my offer order is placed in front of me (i.e. traders leaning on the size to sell in front of it) buy at market and simultaneously pull my offer."

 

Me the trader, rather than thinking of buying it through the high, decides to put a 200 lot offer right infront of the 300 lot, thinking I'm only risking one tick, because I can get out on it if I need to. I lean on him, and the second I do he clips me putting me 200 short , pulls his 300 and sends it bid at the high. Unless I have balls of steel, I end up clipping out at market, taking a loss.

 

The key point I'm trying to make in all of these situations is in your 'every day' trading the market REACTS to your large size orders. Often, the patterns and setups on the chart are caused from trigger-happy traders trying to get their size off and getting ripped.

 

So what's the big difference with fundmental news?

 

Same scenario, 300 lot offer at the high - me the trader eyeing it offer contemplating clipping it. Now (imagine) Goldman comes out saying its got 10 times more exposure to Maldoff than anyone thought. Now I sell 200 at market, leaning on the 300 lot. Yes, the bot might try and rip me through the high, but the guy is WRONG this time - I know there will be thousands of other traders looking to sell the Index, smash the goldman stock, probably smash a few other banks on the anticipation they have exposure, etc.

 

I have the conviction to hold the short now.

 

Plenty of people out there will think I am making this way too complicated, over analysing, that it still comes down to S&R levels and taking your trades, etc.

 

When you are trading off a chart, you are generally trading a formation, let's call it formation "A". The problem tends to be when you clip in with size, it can change the formation from being formation "A" to being formation "B" - all of a sudden you don't want your trade anymore.

 

This is just what I see, and my experiences. Perhaps it truely is something that you probably wouldn't believe until you try it.

[Hlm 10]

I see exactly where you are coming from smwinc and I respect your thoughts and experiences. It just comes down to what your actual edge/style/strategy is. I trade multiple time frames from a few points (we'll assume ES in this case) to swing trading. Because of the fractal nature of the market it's all the same pattern and I can adjust size accordingly to the time frame I am trading. Except for maybe my smallest time frame, a few ticks here or there is not going to make a difference...and several points on the larger time frames is acceptable. I also use no volume analysis and everything is dynamic so there are dozens of highly liquid markets that I can trade in. For many people, depending on their strategy, scaling up might be difficult and unrealistic like you explained. However, not all technical strategies and money management are built equal. For example...from how I have seen you trade, our styles are completely different. While you are constantly scaling in and out and watching the DOM for places to lean and grab ticks, I enter full position on pullbacks with a set stop and estimated targets in place. Neither is necessarily better than the other, just different. But prop shops do have a tendency to pump volume and focus on pulling ticks out of the market which is completely different to what my, and many pure chart readers I know have their strategies based around. If ones strategy is based on looking at what's stacked up in the DOM and where they can lean on a tick basis, then yes...size matters and fundamental news can help you. But personally I find that too time consuming.

 

Happy Trading.

[smwinc 20]

 

Happy Trading.

 

You too chief, let's pray for an '09 that's somewhat similar to '08

 

Cheers

[atto 20]

Ain't that the truth.

 

Thanks for the clear explanation of how you'd trade using fundamentals. Like Hlm said, it does boil down to style for something like that, as it's oranges to refrigerators type comparisons. I think several people would benefit if one of you prop guys starts a thread on it (and hopefully we can get this one back to chart analysis).

[86834 10]

Hlm how you doing . .

 

I'm not in the business of being right or wrong, or to be a mentor to new traders, etc etc. Exactly as I just said, I'm just saying my experiences.

 

Aside from the mental aspect of using size, and working out the psychological reasons of when and why you should use large size, there are practical reasons to think about.

 

When you trade large size, you have an impact on the market you are trading. It is that simple. It has become worse since the markets have thinned out a lot lately.

 

The other main reason traders don't scale their size up in a linear fashion is because of the problems you face.

 

In the eurostoxx, stacks of traders used to sit there with 100 - 200 lots on every few prices - the second they were hit they would place an opposing order 1 tick up/down to take a tick, just making money on the 'two way' price action. Over time the market started to REACT to this trading style. Rather than bounce off the prices and flick back and forth bid/offer/bid/offer, traders clip the entire 200+ bid and send it 200 offer, knowing that someone out there is now probably 200 long offside. They end up covering, pushing the market down another price, often into the take profit order of the guy who clipped the bid and sent it offered in the first place.

 

The market changes & reacts to large size orders. Liquidity is becoming more and more of a valuable commodity. For a large trader, you need "something" to clip into.

 

In plenty of markets, the traders are well aware of that. Traders get greedy and see a 300 lot offer at the high. Someone out there is thinking "If I clip that the market will surely bust the high and go a few ticks, letting me take a few ticks profit on 300 lots".

 

Sounds great. What happens most of the time these days is algorythms are in place that basically program two scenario's, one being: "if greater than or equal to 50% of my offer order of 300 lots is taken, sell 10 x 30 lots at market as fast as possible."

 

So me the trader clips 200 out of the 300 lot, and the moment I clip it, someone furiously sells the market down a few ticks. Now every man and his dog knows I'm 200 long at the high and 2 ticks offside - the market will then push down and try and squeeze me out.

 

Again - your action has CAUSED the market movement. Everyone looking at the chart goes "oh, double top, easy sell". Yes, it is an easy sell now, because your selling it down to get me who is 200 long out.

 

The second scenario often writen into the algo is "OR if greater than or equal to 50% of my offer order is placed in front of me (i.e. traders leaning on the size to sell in front of it) buy at market and simultaneously pull my offer."

 

Me the trader, rather than thinking of buying it through the high, decides to put a 200 lot offer right infront of the 300 lot, thinking I'm only risking one tick, because I can get out on it if I need to. I lean on him, and the second I do he clips me putting me 200 short , pulls his 300 and sends it bid at the high. Unless I have balls of steel, I end up clipping out at market, taking a loss.

 

The key point I'm trying to make in all of these situations is in your 'every day' trading the market REACTS to your large size orders. Often, the patterns and setups on the chart are caused from trigger-happy traders trying to get their size off and getting ripped.

 

So what's the big difference with fundmental news?

 

Same scenario, 300 lot offer at the high - me the trader eyeing it offer contemplating clipping it. Now (imagine) Goldman comes out saying its got 10 times more exposure to Maldoff than anyone thought. Now I sell 200 at market, leaning on the 300 lot. Yes, the bot might try and rip me through the high, but the guy is WRONG this time - I know there will be thousands of other traders looking to sell the Index, smash the goldman stock, probably smash a few other banks on the anticipation they have exposure, etc.

 

I have the conviction to hold the short now.

 

Plenty of people out there will think I am making this way too complicated, over analysing, that it still comes down to S&R levels and taking your trades, etc.

 

When you are trading off a chart, you are generally trading a formation, let's call it formation "A". The problem tends to be when you clip in with size, it can change the formation from being formation "A" to being formation "B" - all of a sudden you don't want your trade anymore.

 

This is just what I see, and my experiences. Perhaps it truely is something that you probably wouldn't believe until you try it.

 

 

top post mate, you explained it a lot better than what i did lol

 

i remember when i first started learning and was in my training period, i took what my trading buddy said to me about watching how prices trade completely the wrong way, and went through this little phase of trying to lean on large bids/offers. I soon learnt my lesson on that lol...

 

What smwinc has said (very well) was what i was trying put across (very badly) when i said your trading will only go so far (in my opinion), because trading a 5 lot is completely different to trading in multiples of 100lots. It's not just a case of seeing your support level and buying 300lots. Developing a nautral feel for the market, understanding orderflow on the book, and understanding the fundamentals of the market your trading, inter linked market relationships and so on is (in my opinion and in my experience) essential.

 

As for liquidity... tell me about it... the good times are behind is now. Used to be so easy - the schatz went bid 5 ticks so you went bid on the bund and got cash back

 

Boost

[Hlm 10]

More power to you scalpers...heck, it's what allows me to get good fills . However, after your last comment 86834 I am starting to get an idea where you may be coming from. The trading style that most prop firms use is very micro in nature for actual execution. I am not quite sure at where they get their longer term bias from since I have never actually worked for one. You had mentioned Market Profile but that is still only on a daily basis and by the default settings it is still limited do it's strict start and stop times. This could be the reason as to why you don't believe the rest is within the charts. For example volume, I personally don't watch it because I constantly monitor the natural fractal swings of the market and their current stage within the cycle. For my strategy viewing both is not needed and volume is not as detailed with it's information in comparison (again, my strategy). Of course this doesn't mean it's better than those that use volume. It depends on what they are trying to get out of it and like always the bottom line...PnL. In my opinion fundamentals in a open liquid enviroment is no different. Maybe that gives you a better idea to where I am coming from.

[86834 10]

More power to you scalpers...heck, it's what allows me to get good fills . However, after your last comment 86834 I am starting to get an idea where you may be coming from. The trading style that most prop firms use is very micro in nature for actual execution. I am not quite sure at where they get their longer term bias from since I have never actually worked for one. You had mentioned Market Profile but that is still only on a daily basis and by the default settings it is still limited do it's strict start and stop times. This could be the reason as to why you don't believe the rest is within the charts. For example volume, I personally don't watch it because I constantly monitor the natural fractal swings of the market and their current stage within the cycle. For my strategy viewing both is not needed and volume is not as detailed with it's information in comparison (again, my strategy). Of course this doesn't mean it's better than those that use volume. It depends on what they are trying to get out of it and like always the bottom line...PnL. In my opinion fundamentals in a open liquid enviroment is no different. Maybe that gives you a better idea to where I am coming from.

 

 

Like i've said in previous posts i never ment to offend anyone, was just stating the realities. Yeah trading a chart pattern during the day on a 5 lot can work for you, but as your size increases you WILL reach a point, as has been discussed, where that will not work anymore, or you'll having extreme difficulties. This is when a lot of other stuff such as fundamentals start coming into play.

 

Everyone has their own goals, but in my opinion the trader that can understand and implement all of this into their trading is the better more skilled trader. The way i see it is that you're promoted to your own level of incompetence via size. If you're competent and skilled enough at your current size then your clip size will be increased and so on and so on, untill you reach a point where your size no longer increases because you're no longer competent enough to handle larger size above you. (unless you've got to the point where the market is not liquid enough for the size you want to trade)

 

As for the retail non professional trader in my mind who has less support around them... they're sat there trading, up size, trading more, up size and so on and so on then they reach their level of imcompetence because they don't understand all the other factors that need to be considered when trading with size. At this point anything can happen in my opinion, they could work it out and learn to survive, or physiological rot can set in because they're not 'hitting' it anymore and then they're screwed....

 

just my 2 cents

 

Boost!

[86834 10]

another thing i want to add as well, is that in my opinion, and through my own observations, the retail trader who just uses a candle chart and a few indicators for example tend to try and be a jack of all trades... What i mean here is that they come up with a chart pattern or 'system', then just apply it to any market, normally a handful of them. Now i'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but if you take the professional career route in the city and end up in a trading team you will specialise and become a master (so to say) of what you've been assigned to, and you will learn everything to do with that market. Once they feel that you're competent they'll let you trade another related market alongside, and your access to the markets and size increase gradually as they seem fit.

 

At this point everyone is probably thinking i'm way off the topic of 'all you need is a chart', but my argument is, yeah right here right now you can be making some money with just a chart, but your trading situation WILL change. Markets will change, your size and access to captial will change etc

 

Who's gonna be more prepared for that change.... the person using just a chart or the person who learnt how to implement other factors into their trading?

 

It's not just about making money this month with an indicator, it's about being able to stay making money for the years to come so you can support yourself, your family and forfill your own personal obligations.

 

Some people who trade just charts will last, and some pro's won't, but for every david beckham that makes it, there's a million people that don't, so in my opinion if you want to make it, you're best off loading the dice in your favour and give yourself as much chance as possible, and for me this means fully learning and understand the market that you're trading and all the possible factors that may effect you.

 

My 2 cents.

[OAC 10]

For example volume, I personally don't watch it because I constantly monitor the natural fractal swings of the market and their current stage within the cycle.

 

Hlm:

If I am not mistaken, I believe you never mentioned this in any of your other posts .

In essence this concept is very similar to my approach. although our methodologies can be completely different. Can you elaborate a little on how the natural fractal swings of the market relates to basic Market Profile concepts that you are a big fan of ?

 

Thanks

[Hlm 10]

Like i've said in previous posts i never ment to offend anyone, was just stating the realities. Yeah trading a chart pattern during the day on a 5 lot can work for you, but as your size increases you WILL reach a point, as has been discussed, where that will not work anymore, or you'll having extreme difficulties. This is when a lot of other stuff such as fundamentals start coming into play.

Haha, don't worry you are in no way offending me. If anything I would think that I have offended you (which is not what I mean to do). I am just trying to explain the reality of how I and many of my friends trade. As for the size issue, you must of missed what I said. I suggest you go back and read it. The mere fact that I have several different time frames I can play with and multiple instruments I would be extremely surprised if someone who scalps in and out and pays attention to the DOM for their strategy could put down more size in relation to their overall profit. As for implementing everything into your trading, in my opinion that over complicates the true nature of the market. I know how volume works and understand how it can be used, but I also know that understanding pure price and how it is stacked in a fractal nature gives the information I need and more. So why would I want to continue to watch volume? The same thing goes along with fundamentals when dealing with an openly traded liquid instrument. Now can some one trade successfully off of them just like volume, absolutely. But don't get confused with more equaling better. I guess it goes back to working smart, not hard. But in the end, it sounds like our strategies are like comparing apples and hamburgers. If ones strategy does not directly take advantage of the fractal nature of the market, then what you say may hold some truth.

 

the retail trader who just uses a candle chart and a few indicators for example tend to try and be a jack of all trades...

This is probably why you are confused. If this is what you think it means to be a pure chartists, then I could agree with you more. However, this is not the type of trader I am referring to.

[OAC 10]

Yeah trading a chart pattern during the day on a 5 lot can work for you, but as your size increases you WILL reach a point, as has been discussed, where that will not work anymore, or you'll having extreme difficulties. This is when a lot of other stuff such as fundamentals start coming into play.

 

If a 5 lot trader who is a pure chartist who find him or herself, after a long period of consistent profitability and progressing linearly, suddently trading 100 lots or more. It is my opinion that he can easily purchase a piece of software that will place the trades for him. And he will never have to learn to read the DOM and concentrate on what he does best instead.

If he finds himself trading a thinner market where his size may actually affect the market with 100 lots or more, then he needs to compensate by broadening his time horizon

[Hlm 10]

Hlm:

If I am not mistaken, I believe you never mentioned this in any of your other posts .

In essence this concept is very similar to my approach. although our methodologies can be completely different. Can you elaborate a little on how the natural fractal swings of the market relates to basic Market Profile concepts that you are a big fan of ?

 

Thanks

Yes, most of the time I spend talking about specifics is in a live format in the chart room or private chat. I enjoy this medium versus a forum because a)it keeps me focused on the market b)nothing is better than explaining with a hard right edge (those that know me know how anti hindsight I am) and c)it keeps me enjoying my free time when I am out of the market (yes...selfish ). However, I have been asked enough times now that I will be posting a thread here shortly dealing specifically with the fractal nature of the market and how it's not so much at what you use to read price action but that you do it in the natural flow of the market via multiple time frames.

 

I put the daily MP areas up there with volume. Even though the current and previous VA's are built off of open/close they are still statistically significant enough to trade off of successfully. What it all really boils down to is using the simplest definition of a trend/cycle (eg L-H-HL-HH), locating them as you step higher in time frames, determining where they currently are within the cycle, and analyzing how they are going to react to one another. The concept of volume/market profile/etc is how you choose to go about measuring and estimating the current cycle of each time frame. The basic DNA of the high probability trade is to enter on the smallest time frame (that you are trading) using it's risk, take first profit on the initial resistance of the middle time frame since it's the one that you are betting on rolling over. Take the final target at the largest time frame. Many might not realize it, but this is why the head-n-shoulder formation is so popular and can be very powerful. Of course if you don't understand what's going on with the larger time frames and where the best place to take some off is then it doesn't help.

 

Wow, didn't mean to ramble that much. Again, in the near future I will put up some illustrations within a new thread.

[starborg9 10]

Hi, I just started trading the e-mini S&P index future ES and I'm rather conflicted about which 3 time frames to use for S/T M/T and L/T charts. I'm now using 233ticks, 5min and 15min. Do you have a better suggestion? I truly appreciate anything and everything you can contribute to my education. Thank you!

[firewalker 10]

Hi, I just started trading the e-mini S&P index future ES and I'm rather conflicted about which 3 time frames to use for S/T M/T and L/T charts. I'm now using 233ticks, 5min and 15min. Do you have a better suggestion? I truly appreciate anything and everything you can contribute to my education. Thank you!

 

Hi starborg9, this is not really the best thread to ask personal trading questions.

 

Fwiw, each one must find what suits them best. A chart is but a representation of price. So whatever you choose to represent price is up to you, as long as you don't stray away too far from the reality...

 

If you have more questions about this, I suggest you search the forums or start a separate thread if you want specific help with your trading.

[gec1000 10]

This happened only a week ago, and at the time - rather than at the end of the day - I described what I would do, depending on the market action. It underlines the importance of having predetermined scenarios, so that you'll know what to do, when you see it. Anyone reading this, should position themselves "in the flow" of the moment.

 

Within a couple of minutes we have the 'ISM Non-Manufacturing Composite' number which will have a definite affect on the markets. By determining beforehand what action is possible and where this action takes place, we can position ourselves better.

 

Now, there's not much time left (7 minutes) but I'm typing this as we go along.

Attached is a DOW futures chart, with important support and resistance levels drawn on the chart. I have 13030 and 12930 as resistance and support, the midpoint is 12980, which is often an important area where price returns to, when trying to find value.

 

Notice how on Friday price went slightly below 12970 but kept very much around the 80 level. Also today, since the open we moved lower and touched 12977 before going up again slightly. A long entry would be fairly aggressive there, but it's possible...

 

Now, what do we look for?

 

(a) if the news is bad, we'd expect price to go lower, but we'd like to see buying come in around the potential support at 12970. Going long immediately would therefore be risky, but if we get confirmation that price is holding support (for example by first spiking through it but then closing all the way up again above support), this could trigger a buy signal.

 

(b) if the news is bad and 12970 is broken straight away, we stand aside and wait for price to find support lower (preferably around 12920-12930)

 

© if we move up on the news than we missed our entry, but too bad. Then we wait and see how price reacts to resistance at 13030 and see if we get a short signal.

 

[ATTACH]6361[/ATTACH]

 

==============

 

And this was posted immediately after the news, after I made an entry:

The ISM number was 52, better than forecast. So we spike up... but, this is a spike into resistance. Now, like I said we wait to see what the reaction to 13030 is. However, by waiting I don't mean minutes, because by then the chance to get in early will have passed. That's why I attached a blow-up of the action, a 15-second chart. Notice how the bar closes at 13029. Coincidence? Of course not. This is where selling pressure comes in.

 

If you look at this from a 1-minute bar or 5-minute it's still easy to see that price fails at this level. Although, the longer you wait the less obvious it's going to be that a nice short entry presented itself, with a stop around 13040 or so.

 

Now, forget about the news for a minute and just observe. How does it help you knowing that there was news and what the figure was? It doesn't. The fourth rule therefore is that you don't need to know what moves the markets, you only need to see the resulting action. Whatever the cause, price is being pushed down because there's a lot of supply at that level. The volume is huge, price fails, what more do you need to know? This doesn't automatically mean price will plunge, but at least you have a trade that you can ride back to the opening low, where you should expect price to find support again.

 

This example is meant to illustrate that the cause of what happens is irrelevant. Even if this would turn out to be a losing trade, it doesn't change the fact that you can see everything you need from the chart, without looking at the news.

 

[ATTACH]6362[/ATTACH]

 

========

 

Anyone looking back at this day, without knowing when the ISM report was released can still see the high volume and the rejection of resistance. What matters is what you see in front of you, which is the effect - the net result - of the sum of all buyers and sellers. Knowing who is moving price or why price is moving in a certain direction, should not be our concern, unless we want to become financial analysts, instead of traders.

 

Note: below is a chart of the whole day so put things in perspective.

 

[ATTACH]6366[/ATTACH]

Forgive me if I'm missing the point, but aren't all these posts (one long thread) come down to supply and demand (combination of looking at volume and price action) and using stochastics and %R to determine overbought or oversold levels?

[Warren Forex 10]

Message for gec1000

 

Your points make good sense. Watch this 7 minute video.

 

http://broadcast.ino.com/education/traders_whiteboard_6/?blog

[firewalker 10]

Forgive me if I'm missing the point, but aren't all these posts (one long thread) come down to supply and demand (combination of looking at volume and price action) and using stochastics and %R to determine overbought or oversold levels?

 

I don't see what stochastics or %R has to do with any of this.

[firewalker 10]

Forgive me if I'm missing the point, but aren't all these posts (one long thread) come down to supply and demand (combination of looking at volume and price action) and using stochastics and %R to determine overbought or oversold levels?

 

I don't see what stochastics or %R has to do with any of this.

[gec1000 10]

Well, isn't your thread about utilizing supply and demand to one's intra-day trading benefit? Stochastics and %R are merely technical indicators that help determine overbought and oversold status, so they can serve as tools to support/implement your chart theory.