Is Trading Just Another Road to Enlightenment, That is the Question?

[Szymon 10]

Hi All,

 

In my opinion I think it’s just another way to Enlightenment.

 

What is Enlightenment? It’s a state of total consciousness being one with the planet, humanity and all kingdoms. You really cannot explain what it is, there are no words that will describe it, you have to go through the experience to understand it, I do not even know if I have felt it or understood it.

 

I think that trading is just another way to Enlightenment; it’s a way to understanding your inner-self especially the two most important emotions that are constantly present in our society. FEAR and GREED are the main emotions that are ruling this world. All you have to do is watch the television or read the newspaper, its all based on Fear.

 

When you first start to trade it feels like a 1000 Watt projector is always on you, every trade you take either winner or loser, you feel like on top of the world and can accomplish anything until you get a loser and it feels like you miserably failed and are not worthy of anything, and you feel depressed.

 

Gradually and slowly by coming to terms with your emotions and skeletons in the closet you success rate increases for some people this takes a long time and for some others they learn it very quickly, everyone is different.

 

I think Persistence is the key; you must persist and continue looking at your inner-self until you understand yourself. Hence the saying “Man Know thyself".

 

A lot of successful traders that I have been in contact over the past few years had one thing in common they understood how fear and greed works and they could exploit that by trading in the markets. Some of these traders had such esoteric trading systems that there are no words to describe it and they knew far more because they had this drive to search and continue searching for the truth even after they made their money. Most of them now do Yoga, Meditate and other forms of new age stuff on a daily basis to be balanced and be in control of those two primary emotions.

 

When you trade you are always learning new things it's a never ending school room just the same way in real life, new situations and challenges arise in your life’s everyday and you have a choice on how to act out that situation either good or bad, remember those cartoons in the olden days where you had a angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other telling you what to do in a situation, the person in the cartoon most of the time took the devils advice and had to pay later for that action. I guess what goes around comes around.

 

Just a few of my thoughts about the psychology of trading.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Happy Trading

 

Regards

 

Simon

[torero 10]

Trading is a life-changing experience, Simon. When you walk alone and to survive on your own, you see things much clearer. Habits, perspective, beliefs, everything you're taught is absolute B.S. It's just another step toward knowing yourself and your surroundings. Not everything is the absolute truth or absolute lies. We are all responsible for our own actions (good or bad). Accepting that is only the beginning of the knowing who you are and why you do the things you do (good or bad) and that's when the healing, understanding and changing begins. This is why I have this message in my signature.

 

Welcome to the club, Simon!

[Szymon 10]

Trading is a life-changing experience, Simon. When you walk alone and to survive on your own, you see things much clearer. Habits, perspective, beliefs, everything you're taught is absolute B.S. It's just another step toward knowing yourself and your surroundings. Not everything is the absolute truth or absolute lies. We are all responsible for our own actions (good or bad). Accepting that is only the beginning of the knowing who you are and why you do the things you do (good or bad) and that's when the healing, understanding and changing begins. This is why I have this message in my signature.

 

Welcome to the club, Simon!

 

Thanks Torero, for your thoughtful reply.

[Anna-Maria 10]

I like your title, & your comments are obviously very personal & deep (to you), which is cool. There are many angles which folks use to work the markets & each angle is, & should be, unique to the individual.

 

But to me, this game is all about one thing & one thing only…..turning a profit.

 

I’m not here to get a fluffy feeling in my belly, learn to love myself or get all deep & meaningful….I’m here to bury the stiff who gets the wrong side of my next long-short pitch.

 

If I crack off a 2mill Cable clip Wednesday a.m, & book the ride on the back of a 2 figure move into Friday p.m, then someone is $40k lighter to my account as I confirm the ticket with back-office admin.

 

If I’m going to engineer those tickets on a consistent basis, I’m sure as hell going to ensure my minimum requirements (research…geography…set ups…triggers…contingencies etc) are drilled & water tight, & I mean water-tight.

 

That’s what I call positive psychology

 

I know exactly where my price is now

I know exactly where I want to go

I know what it will take for me to crack a trade off (set ups)

I know what will lever me in (triggers)

I know (more importantly) what will lever me out again if events turn sour

I know what it will take for me to add to my position & when to fold my hand

 

If you don’t got that type of game plan, then you’ve got yourself a potential psychology problem. Because someplace down the route, you’re going to hesitate & maybe 2nd guess. You do that, & you’re dead in the water.

 

You think the successful hotshots out there are going to 2nd guess their game plans?

 

These hustlers know the psychology of the masses inside & out, back to front. They know where on the ladder you’ll likely hesitate….they’ll know the likely hot spots on a move (the probable stop, profit & limit camps)….they’ll know who is likely stepping up to play a level & why….they’ll know who is likely to front run a b/o step & where they’ll get greased if the b/o gets faked…..they’ll run a level & if the level fades, they won’t think twice to stop & reverse the move on the spin of a dime if the flows are out of whack….

 

will you & do you know this stuff?

 

They play a very uncomplicated game of psychology. They don’t really need to play it any other way to be honest, coz the majority of the pack out there make life hellishly complicated for themselves enough of the time. And these guy's (pro's) don't require second invitations to hustle your $$'s.

 

Most of the real (negative psychology) issues out there have more to do with traders financial capitalization dockets, which in turn trigger the first stages of the fear cycle than anything else.

 

Scared money wins nothing in this game…..& there’s a whole mountain of scared money churning these markets each & every day.

 

And the old timers, savvy pro’s & hotshot gunslingers know it all too well.

[Szymon 10]

Thanks for your input Anna-Maria.

[Nvesta81 10]

I like your title, & your comments are obviously very personal & deep (to you), which is cool. There are many angles which folks use to work the markets & each angle is, & should be, unique to the individual.

 

But to me, this game is all about one thing & one thing only…..turning a profit.

 

I’m not here to get a fluffy feeling in my belly, learn to love myself or get all deep & meaningful….I’m here to bury the stiff who gets the wrong side of my next long-short pitch.

 

If I crack off a 2mill Cable clip Wednesday a.m, & book the ride on the back of a 2 figure move into Friday p.m, then someone is $40k lighter to my account as I confirm the ticket with back-office admin.

 

If I’m going to engineer those tickets on a consistent basis, I’m sure as hell going to ensure my minimum requirements (research…geography…set ups…triggers…contingencies etc) are drilled & water tight, & I mean water-tight.

 

That’s what I call positive psychology

 

I know exactly where my price is now

I know exactly where I want to go

I know what it will take for me to crack a trade off (set ups)

I know what will lever me in (triggers)

I know (more importantly) what will lever me out again if events turn sour

I know what it will take for me to add to my position & when to fold my hand

 

If you don’t got that type of game plan, then you’ve got yourself a potential psychology problem. Because someplace down the route, you’re going to hesitate & maybe 2nd guess. You do that, & you’re dead in the water.

 

You think the successful hotshots out there are going to 2nd guess their game plans?

 

These hustlers know the psychology of the masses inside & out, back to front. They know where on the ladder you’ll likely hesitate….they’ll know the likely hot spots on a move (the probable stop, profit & limit camps)….they’ll know who is likely stepping up to play a level & why….they’ll know who is likely to front run a b/o step & where they’ll get greased if the b/o gets faked…..they’ll run a level & if the level fades, they won’t think twice to stop & reverse the move on the spin of a dime if the flows are out of whack….

 

will you & do you know this stuff?

 

They play a very uncomplicated game of psychology. They don’t really need to play it any other way to be honest, coz the majority of the pack out there make life hellishly complicated for themselves enough of the time. And these guy's (pro's) don't require second invitations to hustle your $$'s.

 

Most of the real (negative psychology) issues out there have more to do with traders financial capitalization dockets, which in turn trigger the first stages of the fear cycle than anything else.

 

Scared money wins nothing in this game…..& there’s a whole mountain of scared money churning these markets each & every day.

 

And the old timers, savvy pro’s & hotshot gunslingers know it all too well.

 

Strangely enough, this post was probably my most enlightening experience as a trader, lol. Wow. That really puts everything in perspective. It is so true.

[Guest Trader Rich]

Well done Simon. Everyone want to be successful in the market need to find a way to discover themselves. If they don't want to do it, the market will do the part for them, of course in a tough love version.

[xracer 10]

The path to mastery in any field of endeavor, is a path to enlightenment.

[Uli Schmuli 10]

Just one distinction I'd like to make about greed & fear: There is no distinction. It's all fear. Greed is just fear of missing out on profits. One need only conquer fear in all its forms to be successful. And if you are 'trying to conquer fear' you are not yet there. It indicates that you are still fearful.

 

It's like this: Many people say that trading requires discipline. However, requiring discipline implies that you have a problem with consistency. I no longer practice disipline, I only execute my plan. Period. No need for discipline.

 

Now you may think this is only a difference in semantics, but I assure you it is not. The vibrational difference (energy) between "Practicing discipline" and "Executing with perfection" is very great.

[Tams 20]

Fear is a good thing

Fear is the recognition of a possible unknown.

 

Fear is a bad thing

Fear is the resignation of control (if that possible unknown is not dealt with).

Edited April 19, 2009 by Tams

[zdo 20]

The path to mastery in any field of endeavor, is a path to enlightenment.

 

 

:helloooo:

Be careful

The path to mastery in any field may aid in clearing and/or bringing obstacles to enlightenment to their exhaustion... but the path to mastery in any field is NOT a path to enlightenment...

[traderpsyches 10]

The underlying clue in this message is the perception of markets as what they really are - just a game against what another human being is going to want to pay in the future. I would agree that the better this is understood, the more successful a trader can be.

[gsalvadi 10]

"If you really are interested in getting enlightened, one way would be to go off to Tibet, crawl in a cave, and sit there meditating for thirty years. Another equally good way – but much, much faster – is to trade the S&P" -- Bill Williams

[Szymon 10]

"If you really are interested in getting enlightened, one way would be to go off to Tibet, crawl in a cave, and sit there meditating for thirty years. Another equally good way – but much, much faster – is to trade the S&P" -- Bill Williams

 

I think the ultimate way is to take your laptop and satellite internet connection to the cave where you can trade while you are meditating. Therefore any personality issues can be addressed very quickly and transmuted thus becoming one with the markets. :helloooo:

 

Regards

Simon

[jgrobertson 10]

This is a great thread. The rules keep the trade process on objective grounds and protect us from the emotional tugs. For me, that is not enough, I have been forced into some "enlightenment" of coming to grips with long avoided psychological aspects of my makeup. In that sense, I see trading as a path to therapy or "enlightenment."

[evolved trader 10]

Hi Simon,

 

What a great thread! I've been involved in the personal and professional arena now for a few years. I've also been trading now for a few years. I can honestly say (from my personal perspective) trading is by far the most advanced personal growth tool on the planet.

 

I believe our results from trading are simply a mirror composed of our true core beliefs, habits, and perceptions. This is why I believe altering the social conditioning has a dramatic improvement on our overall success as a trader. (Which go hand in hand with our edge). If you're not growing you're...... what? Dying. Nothing stays the same, and neither should we as traders. We must constantly be evolving by upgrading out skill-sets and mind-sets.

 

I do want to challenge you on one thing Simon. You mentioned Fear and Greed. Although I understand what you're implying, I believe everything in this world in only driven by 2 factors....... Either Love or lack of love.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan

[Szymon 10]

Hi Simon,

 

What a great thread! I've been involved in the personal and professional arena now for a few years. I've also been trading now for a few years. I can honestly say (from my personal perspective) trading is by far the most advanced personal growth tool on the planet.

 

I believe our results from trading are simply a mirror composed of our true core beliefs, habits, and perceptions. This is why I believe altering the social conditioning has a dramatic improvement on our overall success as a trader. (Which go hand in hand with our edge). If you're not growing you're...... what? Dying. Nothing stays the same, and neither should we as traders. We must constantly be evolving by upgrading out skill-sets and mind-sets.

 

I do want to challenge you on one thing Simon. You mentioned Fear and Greed. Although I understand what you're implying, I believe everything in this world in only driven by 2 factors....... Either Love or lack of love.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan

 

Hi Ryan,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Yes, you are totally right, when I started this thread I was not sure if anyone understood me that is why I wrote it that way.

 

Simon

[zdo 20]

"personal growth" = "enlightenment" ??? or

"personal growth" = "endarkenment" ???

[programmer 10]

Maybe it would sound silly to you guys, but for me trading has actually helped with some bad times in my life. I.e. the total concentration it sucks out of you and the rewards are almost intoxicating . Some scholars that dealt with the question of "what is truely pleasureable" dictated that if one forgets of time and space while doing something, that something is pleasureable above and beyond...Thus , To a great extent online trading is the modern version of "Fishing".

[evolved trader 10]

Cool Simon. I know exactly what you mean. (where's the clown shoes?)

 

ZDO, haha, great question. Increased awarenes, but I'd have to lean towards to second statement.

[JBWTrader 10]

Trading is something to do while we wait to die....