Who Owns the Intellectual Work Here? ...

[brownsfan019 17]

With the recent discussion regarding PivotProfiler and the sudden pulling of charts, I got to thinking - who actually OWNS the intellectual work being put on TL? This may be a better question for a lawyer, but just curious to hear James AND others thoughts on this topic...

 

2 schools of thought:

 

1) James runs the site and you post here freely. Once it's here, it's here to stay, regardless if you do.

 

2) You are providing a service to James and the forum; therefore, if you want YOUR work pulled for ANY reason, it should be pulled.

 

Two very different arguments there, each with their own merits.

 

What say you?

 

Feel free to post below and/or vote in the poll. Mods - let's try to keep this thread opened for awhile. Move to another part of the forum if need be.

[Soultrader 12]

I would never reproduce anyones work without prior notice, approval, and appropriate credit. However, I am against removing material already posted on the site. Content is king and the life of TL. It doesn't make any sense to post in the first place if the intention was to be removed later on.

[Minetoo 10]

The thing that separates this site from many others is the free exchange of ideas and the utter helpfulness of same. It is unfortunate that PivotProfiler has pulled his contributions since it defeats the entire purpose of TL.

[brownsfan019 17]

The thing that separates this site from many others is the free exchange of ideas and the utter helpfulness of same. It is unfortunate that PivotProfiler has pulled his contributions since it defeats the entire purpose of TL.

 

I agree Minetoo, but the question is - if the owner of the work wants the work pulled, should it be pulled?

[Soultrader 12]

I agree Minetoo, but the question is - if the owner of the work wants the work pulled, should it be pulled?

 

If for some legal reason it requires it pullled, I will comply. Otherwise, I prefer to simply remove the user from our system and which will change the username to guest or anonymous but keep the content.

[mister ed 10]

Dunno about the legals either, but I assume the forum owner owns the work unless some other explicit arrangement has been made. From a practical point of view, once its posted its public. With regard to the events that have just happened my understanding is the technical means of pulling charts after the event no longer exist?

[zdo 20]

Am having difficulty with answering the poll because of the way options are phrased - ie 'ownership' may not be the pivotal issue. Here's why - the writer of content has the copyright (whether it's registered or not). However, once 'published', content can not 'unpublished' by an author. And, aside from commercial restraints, consumers of published content can use it as they please as long as the original work is credited properly.

 

Does anyone know why PivotProfiler wants his material pulled from TL? Planning to publish in a different format? Starting an advisory service? Interpersonal conflicts?

I know I would respect most reasons he has for wanting what he has published pulled (including if he's creating 'tests' for demand :\ ) Open honest disclosure would probably bring acceptance from most other members as well. So PivotProfiler - what's really going on?

[HAL9000 10]

Hi,

 

I've voted for that the writer owns his ideas.

But it shouldn't be deleted on this site for ANY reasons.

 

We live in global world, we talk about trading. not ...

You know ...

 

But in some cases, if Soultrader should be confronted with a lawyer, if a writer should be confronted with a lawyer, the material posted, should be deleted.

Its just a pragmatic view.

 

Coming from a scientific world, a written idea, has is value. It may make the work of a becoming Ph.D. obsolete. Yada, yada, ...

 

The contents should stay here, that is only fair, but the idea, and the right to the idea should belong to the writer.

If the writer breaks laws, knowingly, or unknowingly, it has to be deleted.

 

 

Thats my honest view,

 

Hal

[mister ed 10]

Maybe we should be asking two questions BF.

 

1. Who owns the work?

2. Who should own the work?

 

You have asked question 1, but I think your intention (please correct me if I am mistaken) is/was also to touch on question 2. I also think some of us have mixed our answers, letting thoughts about Q2 impinge on answers to Q1. I don't think there is anything wrong with this, the board is for discussion after all.

 

I think the answer to question 1 is to be found in the Terms of Use link at the bottom of each page, quote:

 

---------------------

3. Proprietary Rights

 

Unless otherwise indicated, copyright in all pages of this Web Site, including the design, layout, graphics and other design elements, and in the information and material contained in and on this Web Site, is owned by Traders Laboratory LLC.

----------------------

[HAL9000 10]

Whoever is willing to respond:

 

3. Proprietary Rights

 

Unless otherwise indicated, copyright in all pages of this Web Site, including the design, layout, graphics and other design elements, and in the information and material contained in and on this Web Site, is owned by Traders Laboratory LLC.

 

 

What does this mean?

[mister ed 10]

Whoever is willing to respond:

 

3. Proprietary Rights

 

Unless otherwise indicated, copyright in all pages of this Web Site, including the design, layout, graphics and other design elements, and in the information and material contained in and on this Web Site, is owned by Traders Laboratory LLC.

 

 

What does this mean?

 

C'mon HAL - keep up! :haha:

 

I reckon it is pretty clear what it means - once it is posted the work is the property of TL ... I would imagine for specific postings alternative arrangements could be made beforehand if necessary.

 

Now, enforcement of this provision is another matter.

 

James operates this site with much goodwill (along with much blood, sweat and tears I imagine) , so the legals are only there as a last resort.

[MC 10]

I voted the poster owns the work. Its tough though because he annotated and did his thing, then he posts it on public space which James hosts and pays for.

 

It's sad because as others have said, this whole scenario goes against what TL stands for.

 

I actually want to re-vote or at least say this...there is no law stopping those of you that saved the charts as claiming them as your own if push comes to shove.

I really am wanting to know why he did that and what the hell going on. When you put something on cyberspace I feel you relinquish all rights to that content as it can end up anywhere in any hands. If you don't want others to have the work...don't ever post it publicly.

[HAL9000 10]

Hi Mister Ed,

 

I've posted above what I would wish, and rule 3 allows it, because of the until stated otherwise.

 

Well, I'm sometimes cruel in writing, and actually I posted mine in parallel to yours, so I wasn't aware of your post.

 

While I also think that soultrader has no intention to place stones in front of us, I would still like to see the writer owns her/his information.

 

Now I have two ways to go, if I copycat things, you understand, I will use the shelter of TL, if I will post my own ideas, even if build on others ones ideas, but somehow new, I will have to post my copyright, and stay or fall with it.

 

If this sounds paranoid, it is.

 

I think the easiest and honest way still is, that everyone owns her/his ideas, and, as I said, if laws (wherever) were somehow violated (or are in question), the material will be deleted.

 

Well, just another thought, if every idea comes from an idea of someone else,

who ownes the idea?

My answer would be: No one.

But there are these damn laws.

 

One more, just that you can understand me, I'm using some GNU software, this is nice for me, because its free, but, just in case I would try to build up a business, I have to make some very special deals.

Anyway, I'm a trader, so probably this will never be the case.

 

 

Regards,

 

Hal.

 

P.S.: BTW, BF, I'm searching for the link. It was a woman, but I need some more time, don't remember her name.

Edited February 12, 2008 by HAL9000

[brownsfan019 17]

Interesting responses here. Pretty much what I expected. Just curious to see what others thought.

[MC 10]

Interesting responses here. Pretty much what I expected. Just curious to see what others thought.

 

I dunno if votes can be changed but I would switch mine up.

Sucks I voted before typing my thoughts and delving in.

 

Make it 5 to site and 3 to poster.

[mister ed 10]

I dunno if votes can be changed but I would switch mine up.

Sucks I voted before typing my thoughts and delving in.

 

Make it 5 to site and 3 to poster.

 

Can you delete cookies or anything like that? How did Bush do it in Florida LOL?

[MC 10]

Can you delete cookies or anything like that? How did Bush do it in Florida LOL?

 

LMAO!

 

I don't have a politician brother to alter the polls and I'm not a politician, ahhhh what the hell I'm screwed.

 

Maybe make a 3rd option for "I'm wishy washy and will click on both if allowed".

Wait...so I am a politician then. Damn those PC answers I give.

:o